Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

[merchant seaman]

I'm still trying to figure out where the term "white Hispanic" came from. Never heard that one before. Are there "white Asians"? How about "white Indians"? Or maybe even "white black Americans"? This case took place in Florida why are the Martins, Sharptons, Jacksons protesting in New York? Maybe all could go to the white house for a beer.

[LoveDaBlues]

Not so sure the team was winning 100-0. The original vote (if juror B37 is believed) was 50% to convict. So, the game was MUCH closer than you're saying.

You are laughable. I guess you missed the part where 4 of the 5 OTHER jurors put out a statement that juror B37 DID NOT speak for them....And I suppose the other 50% of the jurors must have used a Trayvon style MMA "ground and pound" to get those other 50% into submission. Or was it a George Bush water board that turned those other 3 ladies to turn their verdict around? After all it took more than 16 hours of tortured deliberation to get those 3 wayward souls to change their mind. Keep digging, you, Obama, Holder, Sharpton and farrakhon and all the other race mongers can surely come up with something better than 50% of the jury wanted a conviction.[/quote]

No......I didn't miss the part where the other jurors said that B37 did not SPEAK for them. I'm talking about one thing, the original vote taken; that's all. Unless B37 is lying then the original vote was 50% to convict. I stand by my post; it was never a 'sure thing' that this jury would acquit. You're free to disagree as is your right.

I'll take the high ground and let you continue with the name calling........peace out.

[parrot]

I'm still trying to figure out where the term "white Hispanic" came from. Never heard that one before. Are there "white Asians"? How about "white Indians"? Or maybe even "white black Americans"? This case took place in Florida why are the Martins, Sharptons, Jacksons protesting in New York? Maybe all could go to the white house for a beer.

Why is someone who's living on the other side of the planet concerned with what they're doing?

[semperfiguy]

Has anybody on this forum actually taken a moment out to empathize with GZ...in other words...put yourself in his position and ask yourself what you would have done that night. First off, GZ didn't have to put himself in harm's way. He could easily have been sitting in his comfortable home that night, but he volunteered to participate in the Neighborhood Watch Program. He was obviously concerned about the continued crime in his community, so he made the sacrifice in an attempt to help reduce crime and protect his family and others in the community. To say that he was motivated to kill black people is sheer nonsense! So, he comes across TM and pursues him in spite of the 911 dispatcher's request to "stand down", which by the way was a request that he was not compelled to honor. He continued his pursuit because he "didn't want to see another one get away". He wasn't at all referring to black people, but rather was making a reference to burglars in general...as in "the robbers who had committed crimes before in the community and were not apprehended".

Unfortunately, one thing led to another and before he knew it TM was straddling his chest and beating the crap out of him. GZ was trying to work his way off the concrete and onto the grass to minimize the damage to his head from the beating. There's no doubt that he was in fear for his life and didn't know if he would be knocked unconscious by the next blow. Now, think for just a moment about what you would have done in a similar situation. TM has got the upper hand and GZ can't free himself....and suddenly for a split second in the struggle GZ has the opportunity to pull his gun and fire. Believe me...in a situation like that no one is going to be composed enough to take careful aim and fire a warning or a wounding shot...you're just going to take your best shot at the body. Unfortunately for TM it turned out to be a mortal wound.

I doubt very seriously that there is a single person on this forum that would have reacted any differently had TM been sitting on your chest that night! Absolutely both parties made horrific mistakes in judgment up to the point where the struggle ensued, but past that point GZ did exactly what I would have done had I been in his shoes that night!

KHONDAHM » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:55 am

Your perception of the facts is so screwed up as to deny any rational response. Please pause, take a moment to Google for the FULL non-embellished facts (not opinion or a write-up from some right-wingnut website or Rupert Murdoch property), read same, ponder same, then come back to the board and post.

Here's a link to all the court documents:

http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/documen ... l-circuit/

by KHONDAHM » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:57 pm

I think there are some of us on this thread who accept the verdict and have moved beyond beating the dead horse about what the facts were or were not.

Hmmmm...so this morning at 7:55 AM you had "attitude" and you wanted to argue the facts of the case. Then at 1:57 PM you had "moved beyond" beating the dead horse about what the facts were or were not!
Guess you just got up on the wrong side of the bed and in a bad mood, but by late lunch time you had mellowed out and was back to your typically composed, cordial and unbiased self. I think your latter mood is the one that we all know and love!

[TJ]

From Drudge: Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children, who were trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.

The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin."

Though in hiding due to innumerable death threats Zimmerman exposed his whereabouts to come to the aid of his fellowman. Such strengh of character is amazing.

[bumper]

You know I'm not even going to comment on this beyond Political Correctness has went to far. But I will hold to Martin Luther Kings words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebu6Yvzs4Ls

[KHONDAHM]

Guess you just got up on the wrong side of the bed and in a bad mood, but by late lunch time you had mellowed out and was back to your typically composed, cordial and unbiased self. I think your latter mood is the one that we all know and love!

You, my good friend, are probably correct.

Fussin' and debating is all fun to pass the time. No harm meant and no harm taken.

I'm taking (or trying to take) LoveDaBlues' advice and just sit on the sidelines.

[bumper]

Just a thought nothing more. It would seem to me that if you spend your time proving your not prejudice. Might be worth a deeper look inside. You see if you live your life treating others equally, your living it not talking about it.

Jury was polled in Court.

Media, this is a sad fact that I saw over many years. Black on Black killings don't even make the news.

This is to hot a subject, I believe it's time to join LDB and Dahm.

As much a I enjoy sharing my thoughts. to debate with me your going after an unarmed person.

[WBU ALUM]

http://www.dlas.org/questions-zimmerman-verdict/

[KHONDAHM]

That video is rather enlightening. It reveals GZ followed TM further than I imagined. It is clear TM was trying to just get away from this guy following him at night in the rain. So, when GZ went to the house to get the address, then doubled-back (but really seems like GZ was trying to figure out where TM went), that probably clinched it for TM that GZ was trying to stalk him all the way home. So, TM confronted him in the open rather than risk this strange dude finding out where he was going.

Absent from even GZ's re-enactment was any mention at all about GZ asking TM if he lived in the area (Ding!). That would have been the correct and obvious thing to do. There are a LOT of houses around there. GZ couldn't remember the street name, so obviously, he doesn't know everyone in the area well enough to NOT have to ask that question.

A big problem about the re-enactment I have is HOW GZ describes what happened and what was said. He is very fluid EXCEPT when describing the critical parts. He pauses often as if he is trying to remember what to say. Watch it more than once and it becomes glaringly obvious.

If anything, the video re-enforces my thinking about what transpired and why. You need only imagine yourself in TM's shoes as GZ recounts the events. At the point where GZ says he pulled out his flashlight, that tells us it was VERY dark in that area. Perhaps TM was thinking "WTF is this guy still following me even with a flashlight?".

I might react in the same way if some strange foreigner were to follow me all through the local village in a car at night in the rain with a flashlight and up the no-reason-for-anyone-else-to-come-here road to my driveway. I might confront said foreigner at the driveway rather than have him follow me all the way to my front door. Certainly, if I were young, in my prime, and pumped with adrenaline from fear. I'd beat his azz the instant he trespassed on my property.

Of course, this is one side of the story. There's TM's side, and then there is the truth. The latter two we will never know, but a jury has decided and it's over for now.

[KHONDAHM]

At 03:49, GZ says TM double-backed to GZ's car and was circling the car with his hand in his waistband.

A couple of things of note:

1. That would have been a good time for GZ to question TM from the safety of his car AND while still on the phone with non-emergency.
2. A hand in the waisband is a threat response. Not a threat action. So, for whatever reason, TM felt GZ was trying to "get him" and he responded by confronting the threat with a threatening action. TM implied he was armed which was a clear signal for GZ to back-off and stop pursuing TM. What is missing is other than that implied threat response, TM didn't strike the car or do anything other than attempt to leave the scene.

Right then and there, if GZ's story and recollection of GZ's demeanor was true, then GZ would presume TM was armed and STOP pursuit. He would/should have waited for the police in the safety of his car (!). Instead, he decided to play cop and continue pursuit.

If I were a juror, that would have clinched it for me:

GZ was safe in his car. GZ was on the phone with police. Up to that point, GZ is acting "appropriately". However, from the moment GZ exited the car, GZ went on the offensive and became the aggressor. It is settled law that one can't claim self-defense if same is the aggressor.

How that got past the prosecution and the jury is amazing. Hell, even I could have built a case around just that. The case was lost by the prosecution's incompetence.

[Quanteen]

"The February 2012 shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martion might never have happened if school officials in Miami-Dade County had not instituted an unofficial policy of treating crimes as school disciplinary infractions. Revelations that emerged from an internal affairs investigation explain why Martin was not arrested when caught at school with stolen jewelry in October 2011 or with marijuana in February 2012. Instead, the teenager was suspended from school, the last time just days before he was shot dead by George Zimmerman."

"Trayvon Martin was not from Sanford, the town north of Orlando where he was shot in 2012 and where a jury acquitted Zimmerman of murder charges Saturday. Martin was from Miami Gardens, more than 200 miles away, and had come to Sanford to stay with his father’s girlfriend Brandy Green at her home in the townhouse community where Zimmerman was in charge of the neighborhood watch. Trayvon was staying with Green after he had been suspended for the second time in six months from Krop High School in Miami-Dade County, where both his father, Tracy Martin, and mother, Sybrina Fulton, lived."

Both of Trayvon’s suspensions during his junior year at Krop High involved crimes that could have led to his prosecution as a juvenile offender. However, Chief Charles Hurley of the Miami-Dade School Police Department (MDSPD) in 2010 had implemented a policy that reduced the number of criiminal reports, manipulating statistics to create the appearance of a reduction in crime within the school system. Less than two weeks before Martin’s death, the school system commended Chief Hurley for “decreasing school-related juvenile delinquency by an impressive 60 percent for the last six months of 2011.” What was actually happening was that crimes were not being reported as crimes, but instead treated as disciplinary infractions.

In October 2011, after a video surveillance camera caught Martin writing graffiti on a door, MDSPD Office Darryl Dunn searched Martin’s backpack, looking for the marker he had used. Officer Dunn found 12 pieces of women’s jewelry and a man’s watch, along with a flathead screwdriver the officer described as a “burglary tool.” The jewelry and watch, which Martin claimed he had gotten from a friend he refused to name, matched a description of items stolen during the October 2011 burglary of a house on 204th Terrace, about a half-mile from the school. However, because of Chief Hurley’s policy “to lower the arrest rates,” as one MDSPD sergeant said in an internal investigation, the stolen jewerly was instead listed as “found property” and was never reported to Miami-Dade Police who were investigating the burglary. Similarly, in February 2012 when an MDSPD officer caught Martin with a small plastic bag containing marijuana residue, as well as a marijuana pipe, this was not treated as a crime, and instead Martin was suspended from school.

Either of those incidents could have put Trayvon Martin into the custody of the juvenile justice system. However, because of Chief Hurley’s attempt to reduce the school crime statistics — according to sworn testimony, officers were “basically told to lie and falsify” reports — Martin was never arrested. And if he had been arrested, he might never have been in Sanford the night of his fatal encounter with Zimmerman.

http://spectator.org/blog/2013/07/15/tr ... hool-miami

There is a difference between school disciplinary action and crime. The school should stop protecting criminals. If Martin was in jail, where he belonged, he might be alive today.

[redwolf]

I'm going to title this "The Chicago Response", and simply comment as someone with that kind of programming. FACT IS, NONE OF US WERE THERE but since the thread has gone on this long Red's jumping in for a lark.

At 03:49, GZ says TM double-backed to GZ's car and was circling the car with his hand in his waistband.

Chicago Response: Now I know you TM are a thug or worse for you TM, a wannabe thug. Penalty for posing like you TM have a gat is severe.

A couple of things of note:

1. That would have been a good time for GZ to question TM from the safety of his car AND while still on the phone with non-emergency.

Chicago Response: That's not realistic, not even a little bit. We're outside, among who knows, and this isn't the quaint town of Mayberry. You GZ hang in the driver's seat, and TM he's got you, the make and model of your GZ car, and if he TM has a gat, can pop a few caps in you GZ. Or car-jack you GZ just on principle.

2. A hand in the waisband is a threat response. Not a threat action. So, for whatever reason, TM felt GZ was trying to "get him" and he responded by confronting the threat with a threatening action. TM implied he was armed which was a clear signal for GZ to back-off and stop pursuing TM. What is missing is other than that implied threat response, TM didn't strike the car or do anything other than attempt to leave the scene.

Chicago Response: This isn't the discovery channel. Hand in the waist band is the "gun fake" threat. It's a request to end pursuit. An experienced criminal would have "came up" directly on GZ.

Right then and there, if GZ's story and recollection of GZ's demeanor was true, then GZ would presume TM was armed and STOP pursuit. He would/should have waited for the police in the safety of his car (!). Instead, he decided to play cop and continue pursuit.

Chicago Response: No way not even. It's the other way. Always. Neighborhood Watch is built around keeping eyes on potential perps. The cops use them as pawns unfortunately. That's how all this started. Combine that with Stand Your Ground and here we UM are.

If I were a juror, that would have clinched it for me:

GZ was safe in his car. GZ was on the phone with police. Up to that point, GZ is acting "appropriately". However, from the moment GZ exited the car, GZ went on the offensive and became the aggressor. It is settled law that one can't claim self-defense if same is the aggressor.

Chicago Response: He GZ wasn't the aggressor because he GZ didn't jump Trayvon. He'd have had to assault him TM to be the aggressor, not just chase him TM. When he GZ left the car he GZ should have known he GZ would get jumped. He should have known a pursuit would lead him into an ambush. GZ was mistaken in falling into the Neighborhood Watch trap. That gig is only good for really good spy types who can creep with the best of em', who have really good cops on the receiving end of the tips.

How that got past the prosecution and the jury is amazing. Hell, even I could have built a case around just that. The case was lost by the prosecution's incompetence.

That's why I call this case "The Thug And The Pawn".

Just an opinion. I RW could be wrong.

[redwolf]

Listen to the call.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trayv ... _Call3.ogg

Sound like GZ or sound like TM?

The fight lasts a while before the gun shot.

[bumper]

Just two comments I don't know the Florida Law, would not have flied in California.

Sadly we will never really know what was going on in the minds of these two people.

If the jury followed the Florida law, and the facts presented supported it ( not everything come forward in Evidence at trial ) then they came to the right conclusion. But, I don't know that, so conjecture on my part. You know if people responded in a like manner on black on black crime. Might be better world. I worked a black area in LA for a year, I only saw black on black crime. No one marched on that, it was just ignored to me that is sad.

[Jing Jing]

Inconvenient

[Jing Jing]

[Asiaphile]

After juror B37, another juror (B29) speaks out: George Zimmerman ‘Got Away With Murder':


http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... d=19770659

[LoveDaBlues]

To hear some posters on this thread it was a 'slam dunk' case. Always far from it. GZ very lucky; if this juror had more backbone she could have held out and hung the jury. I've served on a jury in a murder case. Seen people break down crying.

Serving on a jury opened my eyes. One lady on our jury thought 'money laundering' was running it thru a washing machine to make it look older.

[Quanteen]

If I were a juror, I'd be watching and listening carefully.

Did you notice how the family rescued by Zimmerman following a auto accident this week were threatened? They've declined any sort of media exposure for fear of being targeted.

I reckon the jurors will similarly become targets for merely doing their civic duty.

Obama's ghetto America. Get used to it.