Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by KHONDAHM » July 22, 2013, 7:55 am

semperfiguy wrote:Has anybody on this forum actually taken a moment out to empathize with GZ...in other words...put yourself in his position and ask yourself what you would have done that night. First off, GZ didn't have to put himself in harm's way. He could easily have been sitting in his comfortable home that night, but he volunteered to participate in the Neighborhood Watch Program. He was obviously concerned about the continued crime in his community, so he made the sacrifice in an attempt to help reduce crime and protect his family and others in the community. To say that he was motivated to kill black people is sheer nonsense! So, he comes across TM and pursues him in spite of the 911 dispatcher's request to "stand down", which by the way was a request that he was not compelled to honor. He continued his pursuit because he "didn't want to see another one get away". He wasn't at all referring to black people, but rather was making a reference to burglars in general...as in "the robbers who had committed crimes before in the community and were not apprehended".

Unfortunately, one thing led to another and before he knew it TM was straddling his chest and beating the crap out of him. GZ was trying to work his way off the concrete and onto the grass to minimize the damage to his head from the beating. There's no doubt that he was in fear for his life and didn't know if he would be knocked unconscious by the next blow. Now, think for just a moment about what you would have done in a similar situation. TM has got the upper hand and GZ can't free himself....and suddenly for a split second in the struggle GZ has the opportunity to pull his gun and fire. Believe me...in a situation like that no one is going to be composed enough to take careful aim and fire a warning or a wounding shot...you're just going to take your best shot at the body. Unfortunately for TM it turned out to be a mortal wound.

I doubt very seriously that there is a single person on this forum that would have reacted any differently had TM been sitting on your chest that night! Absolutely both parties made horrific mistakes in judgment up to the point where the struggle ensued, but past that point GZ did exactly what I would have done had I been in his shoes that night!
Your perception of the facts is so screwed up as to deny any rational response. Please pause, take a moment to Google for the FULL non-embellished facts (not opinion or a write-up from some right-wingnut website or Rupert Murdoch property), read same, ponder same, then come back to the board and post.

Here's a link to all the court documents:

http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/documen ... l-circuit/


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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LoveDaBlues » July 22, 2013, 8:19 am

semperfiguy wrote:Has anybody on this forum actually taken a moment out to empathize with GZ...in other words...put yourself in his position and ask yourself what you would have done that night. First off, GZ didn't have to put himself in harm's way. He could easily have been sitting in his comfortable home that night, but he volunteered to participate in the Neighborhood Watch Program. He was obviously concerned about the continued crime in his community, so he made the sacrifice in an attempt to help reduce crime and protect his family and others in the community. To say that he was motivated to kill black people is sheer nonsense! So, he comes across TM and pursues him in spite of the 911 dispatcher's request to "stand down", which by the way was a request that he was not compelled to honor. He continued his pursuit because he "didn't want to see another one get away". He wasn't at all referring to black people, but rather was making a reference to burglars in general...as in "the robbers who had committed crimes before in the community and were not apprehended".

Unfortunately, one thing led to another and before he knew it TM was straddling his chest and beating the crap out of him. GZ was trying to work his way off the concrete and onto the grass to minimize the damage to his head from the beating. There's no doubt that he was in fear for his life and didn't know if he would be knocked unconscious by the next blow. Now, think for just a moment about what you would have done in a similar situation. TM has got the upper hand and GZ can't free himself....and suddenly for a split second in the struggle GZ has the opportunity to pull his gun and fire. Believe me...in a situation like that no one is going to be composed enough to take careful aim and fire a warning or a wounding shot...you're just going to take your best shot at the body. Unfortunately for TM it turned out to be a mortal wound.

I doubt very seriously that there is a single person on this forum that would have reacted any differently had TM been sitting on your chest that night! Absolutely both parties made horrific mistakes in judgment up to the point where the struggle ensued, but past that point GZ did exactly what I would have done had I been in his shoes that night!
He continued his pursuit because he "didn't want to see another one get away".
Amazing. GZ peered into his crystal ball and knew TM had just committed a crime; so he decided to follow him.
Oops.....the GZ crystal ball had a loose wire; TM hadn't committed a crime.

GZ was trying to work his way off the concrete and onto the grass to minimize the damage to his head from the beating. There's no doubt that he was in fear for his life and didn't know if he would be knocked unconscious by the next blow. Now, think for just a moment about what you would have done in a similar situation. TM has got the upper hand and GZ can't free himself....and suddenly for a split second in the struggle GZ has the opportunity to pull his gun and fire.

How do you know all of this? This description falls just a wee bit short of having the details contained on film. Amazing, GZ is staggered, one blow short of being KO'd, he's on the bottom with no leverage, and yet HE manages to get the gun that HE said TM was trying to get. This script is straight out of the WWF: the 'good guy' gets the crap beat out of him by the 'bad guy' to the point he's almost helpless; but then he pulls his patented "double-criss-cross-super-suplex-immobilizer move and wins the match as the crowd goes wild! :roll:

If TM had not died but was only wounded perhaps this is the story he would have told:

This creepy guy was following me. He was not a cop or security; I didn't see a uniform. I wasn't doing anything to give him reason to follow me; just getting home so I could watch the game. I didn't want this creep to know where I lived so I decided to confront him; find out what his problem was. I have friends in this neighborhood, they don't need creeps lurking around. When I asked him "why are you following me?" he refused to answer so I got angry and cussed him. He shoved me and we grabbed each other and we went to the ground. I remember hitting him a few times while we were wrestling; it all happened very fast. Suddenly I felt a pain in my left side; that's all I remember until I woke up in the hospital.

Absolutely both parties made horrific mistakes in judgment
yes, TM has paid his price for his mistakes; and GZ should be held accountable for his mistakes

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by WBU ALUM » July 22, 2013, 9:56 am

LoveDaBlues wrote:I didn't say he was required to have a partner. It's called "strength in numbers" and intelligent people understand this concept. GZ didn't and he created a world of trouble for himself in addition to taking a life.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda must only apply to Zimmerman.

Maybe Trayvon Obama should have not cut through that complex late at night. Maybe Trayvon Obama shouldn't have confronted Zimmerman, as he told Jeantel he was going to do. Maybe Travon Obama should have just waved a friendly wave and kept walking -- like intelligent people do when they think they are being watched because they are not known in the neighborhood.
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by WBU ALUM » July 22, 2013, 10:00 am

Laan Yaa Mo wrote:Jeantel has to be one of the worst ever witnesses for a prosecution in the annals of time. She exposed herself, and people close to her, as racist, and did nothing to help her cause. However, it did demonstrate that she did not profit much from the educational system or have a strong sense of family and moral upbringing.
She hasn't profited much from her revealing interviews either, but she may have saved Trayvon's family and donors a bundle on attorney fees for a civil case. :lol:
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by jackspratt » July 22, 2013, 10:07 am

WBU ALUM wrote: Woulda, coulda, shoulda must only apply to Zimmerman.

Maybe Trayvon Obama should have not cut through that complex late at night. Maybe Trayvon Obama shouldn't have confronted Zimmerman, as he told Jeantel he was going to do. Maybe Travon Obama should have just waved a friendly wave and kept walking -- like intelligent people do when they think they are being watched because they are not known in the neighborhood.
In what part of the world does 7pm = "late at night"? :confused:

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by WBU ALUM » July 22, 2013, 10:14 am

semperfiguy wrote:
Interesting narrative SFG.

The way I read it is that Zimmerman was a frustrated wannabe cop. He made the choice to go out that evening, armed, and didn't know when to say enough.

Did you read parrot's earlier post re the Stanford Police Neighborhood Watch instructions?
What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or apprehension of any suspicious person. This is the job of the law enforcement agency.
As a supposedly conscientious Neighborhood Watch person, not only has he ignored the instructions of the radio dispatcher, he has also ignored the standing instructions of his local PD.

Unfortunately, his bad decisions have lead to the death of another person. It's not about race - it is about lack of judgement, and stupidity.

He gets and deserves no empathy from me.
According to Zimmerman (and Rachel Jeantel) the physical confrontation began with Martin. Being punched and knocked to the ground makes it tough to not be involved in a physical confrontation.
:lol:

There was also no evidence of Zimmerman being "a frustrated wannabe cop." That would have been damning if there had been any history of that. Nothing to support it, so it is moot -- except to those who want to project a different outcome on this trial.

Zimmerman did not ignore the dispatcher. Zimmerman was never told not to follow Martin. Zimmerman was told, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman responded, "Ok." Zimmerman then began giving instructions as to where his vehicle was located so that he could meet police there. Transcripts of the 911 call are all over the Internet. A simple search will produce them.

If there had been evidence that Zimmerman violated the Sanford Police Department's guidelines for Neighborhood Watch, it would have been entered as evidence. It wasn't. The information is immaterial except for those who want to project their own outcome on this trial.

8)
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by WBU ALUM » July 22, 2013, 10:23 am



Myths and lies destroyed.

The history of Trayvon ...

"You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynaihan
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by jackspratt » July 22, 2013, 10:27 am

WBU ALUM wrote:
Zimmerman did not ignore the dispatcher. Zimmerman was never told not to follow Martin. Zimmerman was told, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman responded, "Ok." Zimmerman then began giving instructions as to where his vehicle was located so that he could meet police there. Transcripts of the 911 call are all over the Internet. A simple search will produce them.
Eh!?
911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
The meaning of the dispatcher's words are pretty clear - don't you think?

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LilRed » July 22, 2013, 10:34 am

Z being innocent of 2nd degree murder, is no longer relevant.

I'm with President Obama, and, Senator John McCain: Time for a real hard look at stand your ground laws:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ?hpt=hp_t3

This sorta sez it all:
Gun Safety.jpg
The Moynihan quote above, is very applicable to both sides.


BUMPER:

You are an experienced rubber meets da road man in this stuff. I am curious, IYHO, should Z have had a weapon? Based on reports/testimony of what happened, did Z provoke, or, otherwise frighten, alarm, etc.?


ATB

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LoveDaBlues » July 22, 2013, 10:52 am

WBU ALUM wrote:
LoveDaBlues wrote:I didn't say he was required to have a partner. It's called "strength in numbers" and intelligent people understand this concept. GZ didn't and he created a world of trouble for himself in addition to taking a life.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda must only apply to Zimmerman.

Maybe Trayvon Obama should have not cut through that complex late at night. Maybe Trayvon Obama shouldn't have confronted Zimmerman, as he told Jeantel he was going to do. Maybe Travon Obama should have just waved a friendly wave and kept walking -- like intelligent people do when they think they are being watched because they are not known in the neighborhood.
I agree with you 100%. Both made mistakes. That's why both should be punished.

When he was in his vehicle why didn't GZ roll down his window and wave a friendly wave to TM? I guess woulda, coulda, shoulda only applies to TM?

Everyone talks about GZ rights. GZ has a right to carry a gun. GZ has a right to follow TM. How about TM and his rights? Doesn't he have the right to walk on a public sidewalk? Doesn't he have the right to confront someone who is following him; hasn't identified himself as a cop or security?

No one knows who started the actual physical confrontation that night. It could have been TM. It could have been GZ. TM has a history of fighting. GZ has a history of shoving a police officer. Isn't it possible GZ shoved TM and this started the fight? WHY do people believe the GZ version? IF.....GZ had shoved TM and started the fight only an idiot would believe that GZ would tell the truth about it.

Obviously, GZ is not legally compelled to take the witness stand. But why didn't he......scared his obvious lies would be exposed? What a man, kills a teenager and doesn't have the guts to look the jury and family of TM in the eye and defend himself.

lol - they are not known in the neighborhood
TM WAS known in the neighborhood; he was staying there! So, is it a criteria to stay off community sidewalks until 100% of the residents know who you are? :confused: :roll: :confused:

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by Quanteen » July 22, 2013, 11:47 am

LoveDaBlues wrote:Obviously, GZ is not legally compelled to take the witness stand. But why didn't he......scared his obvious lies would be exposed? What a man, kills a teenager and doesn't have the guts to look the jury and family of TM in the eye and defend himself.
When every single shred of evidence, testimony and digging exonerates your client, no attorney in the world would put his client on the stand. When your team is winning 100-0, you bench your all stars. This is why I find all the bluster about the case so silly. It was a whitewash from the beginning. The case should have never gone to trial in the first place until POTUS stuck his foot in. This was a show trial to give Sharpton and his race-baiting ilk a platform to whine. They've subsequently chosen to ignore the fact that a jury unanimously rendered a not guilty verdict.

They've learned from their Messiah that the law really doesn't matter. They are very poor examples of Americans.

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LoveDaBlues » July 22, 2013, 12:07 pm

Quanteen wrote:
LoveDaBlues wrote:Obviously, GZ is not legally compelled to take the witness stand. But why didn't he......scared his obvious lies would be exposed? What a man, kills a teenager and doesn't have the guts to look the jury and family of TM in the eye and defend himself.
When every single shred of evidence, testimony and digging exonerates your client, no attorney in the world would put his client on the stand. When your team is winning 100-0, you bench your all stars. This is why I find all the bluster about the case so silly. It was a whitewash from the beginning. The case should have never gone to trial in the first place until POTUS stuck his foot in. This was a show trial to give Sharpton and his race-baiting ilk a platform to whine. They've chosen to ignore the fact that a jury unanimously rendered a not guilty verdict.

They've learned from their Messiah that the law really doesn't matter. They are very poor examples of Americans.
Not so sure the team was winning 100-0. The original vote (if juror B37 is believed) was 50% to convict. So, the game was MUCH closer than you're saying. NOTHING changes the FACT that GZ didn't have the guts to look the jury and family of TM in the eye and defend himself. Had he done nothing wrong as a lot of posters believe what did he have to lose by taking the stand and speaking the truth? :-" Hindsight is 20/20. No one knew what the verdict would be; most of the legal experts (that I saw) thought the jury would convict of manslaughter.

I don't like Al Sharpton. But everyone is free to express their opinion that the verdict was right or wrong. Even a clown like Sharpton.

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LoveDaBlues » July 22, 2013, 12:29 pm

I'm with President Obama, and, Senator John McCain: Time for a real hard look at stand your ground laws:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ?hpt=hp_t3

Oh...My...Gawd, has McCain lost his political mind? The Republicants roasted Gov. Chris Christie for saying things like this about Obama after hurricane Sandy, "“The President has been outstanding in this and so have the folks at FEMA.”

On MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” Christie was equally laudatory, saying “the President has been all over this and he deserves great credit.” Obama, he said, “told me to call him if I needed anything and he absolutely means it, and it’s been very good working with the President and his administration.”

McCain said this (in blue):

President Barack Obama's speech about race relations was "very impressive" and agreed that "stand your ground" laws should be re-examined, including those in his own state of Arizona.

"The 'stand your ground' law may be something that may needs to be reviewed by the Florida legislature or any other legislature that has passed such legislation," McCain said on CNN's "State of the Union."

McCain said he didn't agree with fellow Republican Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, who argued Friday the Obama administration is calling for a review of "stand your ground" laws as a way to further its agenda against Second Amendment rights.

"Isn't it time for America to come together?" McCain asked. "I'd rather have a message of coming together and discussing these issues rather than condemning.

"I respect (Cruz's) view, but I don't frankly see the connection," he added.


stand your ground = BAD LAW finally even some high-profile Republicants are getting it; not just the Dumbocrats

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by KHONDAHM » July 22, 2013, 1:31 pm

[Devil's Advocate]
So, now I'm in my car with my family on the way home from the supermarket. A dog runs out onto the highway and I brake hard to avoid hitting it. The car behind me smashes into my rear, but my family is ok. The driver of the other car deflates his airbags, gets out, and approaches my car. I'm afraid and I do not confront him.

Instead, I reach under my seat where I legally carry my licensed 9mm, roll down the window, and I fire 4 rounds into his torso - killing him and protecting my family and myself.

The dead man's 5 year old girl, who was already crying from being slightly injured when the airbag deployed witnessed her father hitting the ground and bleeding out in the street.

I claim stand your ground and I am acquitted of all charges.

The dog lived.

======

Without stand your ground, I might have rolled down the window to hear that his little girl was injured but ok and he wanted to know if my family and I were ok.

======

It's a BAD LAW.
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by Quanteen » July 22, 2013, 1:47 pm

Ridiculous comparison.

Had the guy pulled you out of your car, broke your nose with the first punch and started smashing your head into the pavement, you would be justified in self defense. "Approaching you", "calling you names" or "looking at you strangely" are not justifications for shooting someone.

Injecting emotives into the scenario (5 year old girl) is perfectly superfluous. Law has no emotion. The Martin case was devoid of law and based solely on emotion -- that's why a unanimous verdict was rendered after only a few days. There was very little to debate.

Hysterical hyperbole doesn't change the facts. Even if some really, really don't want to believe Martin did anything wrong, they're delusional. He was a thug who beat Zimmerman up and told him, "you're going to die tonight." How ironic.

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by KHONDAHM » July 22, 2013, 1:57 pm

I think there are some of us on this thread who accept the verdict and have moved beyond beating the dead horse about what the facts were or were not. Those of us who have are looking at the bigger picture about what this case means and how the law must now be applied given this precedent.

Those who are (amazingly) still debating the facts of a settled case probably are not ready to have a conversation about the ramifications.
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by WBU ALUM » July 22, 2013, 2:17 pm

Quanteen wrote:When every single shred of evidence, testimony and digging exonerates your client, no attorney in the world would put his client on the stand. When your team is winning 100-0, you bench your all stars. This is why I find all the bluster about the case so silly. It was a whitewash from the beginning. The case should have never gone to trial in the first place until POTUS stuck his foot in. This was a show trial to give Sharpton and his race-baiting ilk a platform to whine. They've subsequently chosen to ignore the fact that a jury unanimously rendered a not guilty verdict.

They've learned from their Messiah that the law really doesn't matter. They are very poor examples of Americans.
Yes, it is the burden of the STATE to prove guilt, not for the accused to prove innocence. The evidence spoke for the victim and the accused. Not guilty. Unanimous.

Not to mention that these kinds of cases usually go before a Grand Jury to determine if even there is enough evidence for it to go to court when there are conflicting opinions about a case. Didn't happen. Twelve citizen grand jurors would have found no evidence to bring it to trial either.

So then, it was time to force race-baiting politics to take it straight to the courtroom. Both sides picked the jury. The evidence and the law and the verdict are all that matter.
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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LoveDaBlues » July 22, 2013, 3:23 pm

Quanteen wrote:Ridiculous comparison.

Had the guy pulled you out of your car, broke your nose with the first punch and started smashing your head into the pavement, you would be justified in self defense. "Approaching you", "calling you names" or "looking at you strangely" are not justifications for shooting someone.

Injecting emotives into the scenario (5 year old girl) is perfectly superfluous. Law has no emotion. The Martin case was devoid of law and based solely on emotion -- that's why a unanimous verdict was rendered after only a few days. There was very little to debate.

Hysterical hyperbole doesn't change the facts. Even if some really, really don't want to believe Martin did anything wrong, they're delusional. He was a thug who beat Zimmerman up and told him, "you're going to die tonight." How ironic.
You must be sf's 1st cousin. How do you know TM said that?

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by LoveDaBlues » July 22, 2013, 3:28 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:I think there are some of us on this thread who accept the verdict and have moved beyond beating the dead horse about what the facts were or were not. Those of us who have are looking at the bigger picture about what this case means and how the law must now be applied given this precedent.

Those who are (amazingly) still debating the facts of a settled case probably are not ready to have a conversation about the ramifications.
So feel free to start a thread about the ramifications of this verdict. If you want to move on and away from this thread don't open it. Simple.

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Zimmerman found NOT GUILTY

Post by gudtymchuk » July 22, 2013, 4:26 pm

LoveDaBlues wrote: Not so sure the team was winning 100-0. The original vote (if juror B37 is believed) was 50% to convict. So, the game was MUCH closer than you're saying.
[/quote]
You are laughable. I guess you missed the part where 4 of the 5 OTHER jurors put out a statement that juror B37 DID NOT speak for them....And I suppose the other 50% of the jurors must have used a Trayvon style MMA "ground and pound" to get those other 50% into submission. Or was it a George Bush water board that turned those other 3 ladies to turn their verdict around? After all it took more than 16 hours of tortured deliberation to get those 3 wayward souls to change their mind. Keep digging, you, Obama, Holder, Sharpton and farrakhon and all the other race mongers can surely come up with something better than 50% of the jury wanted a conviction.
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