Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Whistler]

If Hamas release the hostages they have no leverage. Hamas does not have a shred of decency, I sadly think the hostages have very little chance for freedom.

[AlexO]

Some on here just dont get it, Whistles, Jackspratt, rick and the like. hamas and other looney countries want to eradicate all Jewish people and Israel. There never will be peace in the middle east.

Alternatively, it is you and some others on here who just don't get it, Sport.

Although you are correct - there won't be peace in the Middle East while Israel, under the indicted Netanyahu, resists a 2 state solution (starting with a ceasefire in Gaza) which sidelines the other 2 malign players ie Hamas and Iran.

In case you are in doubt:

For weeks, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has denied that he is trying to block a cease-fire deal in Gaza by hardening Israel’s negotiating position. Mr. Netanyahu has consistently placed all blame for the deadlocked negotiations on Hamas, even as senior members of the Israeli security establishment accused him of slowing the process himself.

But in private, Mr. Netanyahu has, in fact, added new conditions to Israel’s demands, additions that his own negotiators fear have created extra obstacles to a deal. According to unpublished documents reviewed by The New York Times that detail Israel’s negotiating positions, Israel relayed a list of new stipulations in late July to American, Egyptian and Qatari mediators that added less flexible conditions to a set of principles it had made in late May.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/13/worl ... talks.html

You seem to have an ingrowing hair in your nether regions about Mr. Netanyahu. This ongoing conflict started way before he came to power in Israel. The region was relatively quiet until Oct 7th, but that will be his fault as well according to your way of thinking Pratty.

[jackspratt]

Netanyahu has been such an advocate for peace in the region since he got into power - particularly his pushing for an equitable, two-state solution, in the years leading up to October 7.

Unfortunately, it doesn't suit him now, as he has a likely date with the electorate, followed by the courts to look at his indicted corruption charges.

[AlexO]

Netanyahu has been such an advocate for peace in the region since he got into power - particularly his pushing for an equitable, two-state solution, in the years leading up to October 7.

Unfortunately, it doesn't suit him now, as he has a likely date with the electorate, followed by the courts to look at his indicted corruption charges.

Just how many years has he been in power? How many years has the anti Israel terrorism been going on?
I would be interested to know your logic as to why defending your nation against terror attacks will absolve him from alleged corruption charges.

[jackspratt]

A quick update.

It looks like Netanyahu's corruption trial has progressed somewhat on the 3 charges, with the prosecution having rested its case, and defence scheduled to start last month.

But like the stonewalling over a ceasefire and 2 state negotiations, no end to the trial is in sight.

[AlexO]

But like the stonewalling over a ceasefire and 2 state negotiations, no end to the trial is in sight.

Do you think not agreeing to Hamas demands on no release of hostages until their demands are met in full is stonewalling or just a Prime Minister and his Cabinet doing their job.
Here's a suggestion.
Hamas release all remaining hostages, resign as the military enforced leadership of Gaza, give up all affiliations with Iran and allow free democratic voting in Gaza. Then political world support for Israel being in Gaza would evaporate overnight, wouldn't it.

[fdimike]

I have a better idea. The US MUST STOP supplying the Israeli regime with bombs, artillery, aircraft and taxpayer money. Israel has become a pariah state practicing genocide & murder of thousands of civilians including women and children and doesn't belong in the world community.

[jackspratt]

Here's a suggestion.
Hamas release all remaining hostages, resign as the military enforced leadership of Gaza, give up all affiliations with Iran and allow free democratic voting in Gaza. Then political world support for Israel being in Gaza would evaporate overnight, wouldn't it.

Sounds good, Alex.

And in return, Israel,

- in good faith, negotiates a rapid cease fire and orderly withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza

- agrees to participate in, and cooperate with, an international investigation into alleged war crimes in Gaza post October 7

- stops the repressions in the West Bank, and puts an immediate stop to further settler development there, pending the commencement of good faith and meaningful negotiations on the development of a Palestinian state, and the future of Jerusalem

- releases all Palestinian prisoners being held in Israeli prisons and detention camps who have not been charged or convicted of a crime

- agrees to an international investigation of alleged starvation, torture and other ill-treatment of the above prisoners

- agrees to pay reparations for the totally disproportionate destruction of Gazan social and physical infrastructure

Sounds like a win/win - let the negotiations begin!

Whatever political world support Israel currently enjoys would no doubt increase dramatically, with the added benefit of making the Middle East far less volatile.

[AlexO]

Sounds good, Alex.

And in return, Israel,

- in good faith, negotiates a rapid cease fire and orderly withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza

- agrees to participate in, and cooperate with, an international investigation into alleged war crimes in Gaza post October 7

- stops the repressions in the West Bank, and puts an immediate stop to further settler development there, pending the commencement of good faith and meaningful negotiations on the development of a Palestinian state, and the future of Jerusalem

- releases all Palestinian prisoners being held in Israeli prisons and detention camps who have not been charged or convicted of a crime

- agrees to an international investigation of alleged starvation, torture and other ill-treatment of the above prisoners

- agrees to pay reparations for the totally disproportionate destruction of Gazan social and physical infrastructure

Sounds like a win/win - let the negotiations begin!

Whatever political world support Israel currently enjoys would no doubt increase dramatically, with the added benefit of making the Middle East far less volatile.

As usual Pratty just being a silly billy.
1/ Yes if Hamas agrees to all the points I made
2/ This is bound to happen if/when peace is actually restored.
3/Talking about Gaza why are you bring even more demands into the discussion.
4/ Who says (apart from the Hamas propaganda machine) that there are any such prisoners.
5/ Again who (apart from the Hamas propaganda machine) says that such acts have taken place. Will that be the same as the claims of Genocide, Population Starving etc etc
6/ Exactly why should Israel pay anything for a war they did not start, if anything its the other way round.
Glad that you agree the way forward is the total unconditional release of innocent hostages, Hamas lay down its arms and stops all affiliations with Iran.
The other factor to ponder is just why any Sovereign nation or its allies even negotiate with a terrorist organisation.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

The fly in the ointment, according to Al Jazeera today, is that Hamas has no interest in attending any more negotiations. Let's see how the anti-Israel brigade on here responds to this development.

One wonders if Khun Whistler will call this dumb.

[jackspratt]

As usual Pratty just being a silly billy.

Well those negotiations closed down pretty quickly, didn't they.

The other factor to ponder is just why any Sovereign nation or its allies even negotiate with a terrorist organisation.

Like the UK negotiating with the IRA, and numerous other examples?

[jackspratt]

The fly in the ointment, according to Al Jazeera today, is that Hamas has no interest in attending any more negotiations.

There have been several flies in that ointment, Uncle.

Israel does it ....... Hamas does it ....... Israel does it ........ Hamas ........

All part of the negotiating process isn't it?

[AlexO]

The other factor to ponder is just why any Sovereign nation or its allies even negotiate with a terrorist organisation.

Like the UK negotiating with the IRA, and numerous other examples?

Yip
Another Bliar success story.
Actually started by the USA when it informed IRA High Command it would treated as a terrorist organisation (not a bunch of hard done by freedom fighters) after 9-11.
Bliar then covered himself with glory by promising pardons to murdering thugs and bringing the previously uninterested EU in to sign off the final Good Friday comic book.

[tamada]

Yip
Another Bliar success story.
Actually started by the USA when it informed IRA High Command it would treated as a terrorist organisation (not a bunch of hard done by freedom fighters) after 9-11.
Bliar then covered himself with glory by promising pardons to murdering thugs and bringing the previously uninterested EU in to sign off the final Good Friday comic book.

Someone has serious issues with peace at any cost.

Never mind being unable to use the bloody quote function properly.

[AlexO]

Yip
Another Bliar success story.
Actually started by the USA when it informed IRA High Command it would treated as a terrorist organisation (not a bunch of hard done by freedom fighters) after 9-11.
Bliar then covered himself with glory by promising pardons to murdering thugs and bringing the previously uninterested EU in to sign off the final Good Friday comic book.

Someone has serious issues with peace at any cost.

Never mind being unable to use the bloody quote function properly.

Do you really believe "in peace at any cost" Tam and all its implications.
Didn't see anything in your copied posts even remotely like quotes.

[jackspratt]

3/Talking about Gaza why are you bring even more demands into the discussion.

Connect the dots, Alex.

[AlexO]

3/Talking about Gaza why are you bring even more demands into the discussion.

Connect the dots, Alex.

Thats twice now, you should really see a doctor or stop the substances causing the hallucinations. Maybe wrong smoke blowing up the derriere.

[tamada]

The other factor to ponder is just why any Sovereign nation or its allies even negotiate with a terrorist organisation.

Like the UK negotiating with the IRA, and numerous other examples?

Yip
Another Bliar success story.
Actually started by the USA when it informed IRA High Command it would treated as a terrorist organisation (not a bunch of hard done by freedom fighters) after 9-11.
Bliar then covered himself with glory by promising pardons to murdering thugs and bringing the previously uninterested EU in to sign off the final Good Friday comic book.

My initial comment on your "Another Bliar success story" post was highlighting your frequent inability to use the automatic quote function that results in nested quotes being incorrectly attributed, especially when one tries to respond with a quote.

See correctly attributed version above.

That's all.

[jackspratt]

See correctly attributed version above.

Thank you.

I lost sleep last night, worrying that such nonsense might be incorrectly attributed to me.

[jackspratt]

For those who are statistically minded.

Death toll in Gaza surpasses 40,000 people, Palestinian health ministry says

- The death toll in Gaza from Israel's offensive has surpassed 40,000 people, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health.

- It says a total of 40,005 people have been killed and 92,401 injured since October 7, when Hamas-led militants attacked southern Israel, killing some 1,200 people — most of them civilians — and took roughly 250 hostages to Gaza.

- There are a number of victims still under the rubble and on the streets who emergency and civil defence agencies have not been able to reach, the ministry added.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-15/ ... /104231872