"Expats!!! Would you do it all over again??"

[silmaj]

Hope this helps with your choice and perspective. I have only lived here for 20 months and carry no real knowledge of the past in Udon but the following is based on my miniscual knowledge and lots of advice.
First listen twice as much as you speak you have two ears and only one mouth. Judge the advice based on how you feel about the person ( bad experience probably leads at least to a personal bias that is not generally true for everybody ).
The situation politically here is unstable and volatile and any understanding of how democracy works in the Western World has no resemblance to politics here.
Basic does and dont,s for me right from the beginning have been to rent not to buy, just my business sense tells me that if I can,t own it I don,t want it.Never lend money to anyone Falang or Thai and never never to the relatives, give if you want to then you will enjoy peace of mind and not have the heartache of chasing payment and straning your relationship.
Dual pricing is a fact of life but a good partner can help a lot here and I have been lucky in this respect but the bench mark evaluation for me is if the price in my judgement is acceptable to me then I am a Happy Man and worry not a jot about the X number of Baht a Thai might have saved.
Start any relationship openly and honestly say I will not lend money, have children I am too old to care for, and no the car, motorcycle etc will be in my name if it is legal to do so.
Develop a sense of humour and when dealing with the officials wait and listen tomorrows another day and there is really no hurry.
My status retired I came here to enjoy what I have earned not change Thai culture or ways although I do confess I wish I could up the driving standards if its only to prevent a needless loss of life and limb.
Finally judge your relationship as only you can, you will have to accept that anything you invest could be lost at the whim of the Thai Government which I suspect at times does not understand it own laws or there interpritation. Would I do it again, course I would but remember I am infant in Thailand but never been happier in recent years give a go you will always rEgret it if you don,t.
REMEMBER YOU CAN SAY NO TO ANYTHING ITS ALWAYS YOUR DECISION.

[laphanphon]

well put, and in only 20 months, i'd say someone was/is paying attention. =D> =D>

[Michael C]

I definitely would do it all over again, but then again, my circumstances are a bit different:

1) I planned for years before coming here.
2) I was married for a few years overseas and travelled together with my wife extensively internationally before moving together to Thailand.
3) I spent years of accumulated time in Thailand, mostly in provincial areas, before moving to Thailand.

I really have to laugh seeing some of these comments, such as:
a) Wives handling finances. After schooling her up on what to do, my wife was independently handling all of our finances, including international transactions. She still takes care of most of the finances.
b) Family members coming around for handouts-it just does not happen with me.
c) Warnings about living near family members: mine have been wonderful and a great help.

Sometimes, I wish they would make things much more difficult to stay here, akin to what Germany has recently done, i.e. requiring those that want visas to stay (or even visit) with a spouse to require them to have an in depth knowledge of the country, proficiency in speaking, reading, writing and understanding the spoken language in order to let them come in. Maybe this will get rid of all or at least most of the malcontents and make this a happier place to live in Anymore, I avoid Americans and Europeans, knowing that if they start talking, many will whine about something meaningless, because it does not appear they have much of anything else going on in their lives.

By the way, Paul, ALL zoos belonging to the Zoological Parks Organization (the national zoo system: Dusit/Bangkok, Khao Kieow, Chiang Mai, Nakhon Ratchasima and Song Khla) charge you the exact same price as a Thai with any proof that you might live here (i.e. Thai driver's license). Although, I usually go into those zoos for free, I have never been charged a tourist price when bringing people in to see the zoo as tourists. If anyone living here (not on a tourist visa) is being charged more, please let me know and I will let the Director General of the Zoological Parks Organization know about this to take action on it- it is NOT their policy.

[Dublin Tony]

Certainly the fact that you are younger is no guarantee things wont go awry.
Near us is a young farang guy aged 28,the same age as his Thai wife.....very attractive couple.
They have been together 7 years and she has a child aged about 10 from a previous relationship.
He bought a house for her and the child and works in Europe to pay for the house and support her 6 months a year and stays in Thailand 6 months a year.
Anyway,turns out the last 3 years she has been "playing away" whilst he has been working his socks off to provide for her.He's found out and the outcome is divorce and sell the house.
But the point is that this happened to a guy in the prime of his life.Not some old dodderer you see shuffling around the complex wearing incontinence pants !
If it can happen to him then,surely,it can happen to any of us.
My view is enjoy it whilst you can because you can never be sure what will happen in the future.Also dont commit all your finance and have an escape route planned. (very important).

[Dublin Tony]

Michael C,
I read your post with interest.I would say that you have been very lucky with your choice of wife and family.Congratulations on that,obviously a result of your extensive planning beforehand.
The point you make about your wife handling all your finances.I am sure that 90% of the farangs on this board would think you have been very very lucky indeed.
I'm sure for most of us that would be a recipe for disaster.Just the way it is here.
You avoid all Americans and Europeans.Well,that is your choice and good luck to you.
Your view that there should be a selection process for farangs wanting to live here I find a little disturbing.
To me it smacks of a "superiority complex." You should remember no-one is perfect.Not even you !

[Michael C]

The 'selection process' described has been implemented for a couple of years now in Germany. It is not a 'selection process', as much as a process that ensures that the person can function in the country and others can interact with them to at least a limited degree.

In comparison, Thai immigration is quite easy, isn't it?

Speaking of immigration, I spent a lot of time in September trying to help out a Thai woman that only needed to get into Switzerland and the EU for three days! She had the money, she had the insurance, but still one of the Schengen States refused the request and it took nearly a full month to finally get her a visa. I call BS on any Thai immigration complaints!

[trubrit]

Michael . An in depth knowledge of the country? We are not talking about snakes here, they can be studied and a reasonable assessment made as to why or how their mind functions ,which enables us to predict their behaviour patterns. You cannot apply that concept to any aspect of life in Thailand.The people although I find them very friendly are much like a your chameleon, they change their colour to suit the enviroment where they happen to be at the time .I have been here almost 30 years now and still not a day goes by when they don't behave in an unpredictable way that is completely beyond my comphrehension .

[bumper]

Ok me I don't have the courage to do what Paul is doing. I already had a retirement but I waited till I was 55 to move here, which at the time was jhe age retirement

The first rule never bring anything here you can not afford to lose. There is a very high chance that you will lose.

I'm doing OK now but I lost many times to get to this point.

Don't expect this to be perfect it's not. It will either fit you or it won't. You will never know that from a vacation. Day to day living is much different.

You see so many that really make you wonder why they are here. But,they are here I can't even define why I'm here. If I didn't want to be here I would working towards getting out. I have done just that in the past. But. something changed and I'm still here.

Go slowly rent.

[BKKSTAN]

Absolutely,I would do it all over again,but a few things differently.

The major one being : I would have home schooled my stepdaughter,although I would have preferred to have her educated outside Thailand,which was not an option!

I would not stay in Thailand ,if my family situation changed!It is is my focus and main reason for being here.

I would have no reason to stay here as a single man!

[LoveDaBlues]

"many things have changed since coming here which were not anticipated, in all aspects of life here and sadly most of them have changed for the worse" Paul

Care to list some of them, Paul. I would like to find out if I am being an ostrich.

Well my case is a little different from most of the others in that I am not retired (not old enough) or married (not handsome enough) and have to rely on a work visa and work permit to remain 'legal'
Each year it gets harder and harder as the screw turns.

I have a house and land (bought and paid for) - but its not mine and never will be, I have to report my whereabouts to the immigration police every 90 days, I have to hope and pray that every 12 months I will say and do the right thing to the immigration department, and they will let me stay for a further 12 months, I have to argue at zoo's, water parks and other tourist attractions why I will not pay double the entrance fee of the guy in front of me (Thai) when I pay the same taxes and social security payments as him to the government and get a crap salary the same as him but everyone thinks I am a foreigner so I am loaded and can be ripped off.

Even if I had a wife, house, children, land, a car, a job, even a company here - I can still turn up at immigration and they can refuse to let me stay here for another year - what kind of security is that ? or incentive to invest in the country with a multi-million baht house etc ?

Incidentally, I thought the term 'expat' referred to someone sent here usually by a foreign company, and paid a western salary?. I would term the majority of us as 'immigrants' (albeit short time immigrants) whom intend to live here long term (subject to being 'allowed' to)
Most of us will never get citizenship or even permanent residency - but we'recertainly not expats !

An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing or legal residence.

[twotatts]

too right its great, dont listen just do it and if it gos bad, sum num na, live life to the max, dont ask just do it.

twotatts

and i will do it again in my next life. lol may be as a dog

[laphanphon]

An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing or legal residence.

Well that depends what country you are from and what laws apply, if a yank, if doesn't matter, theY will find a way to F you no matter what/tax wise. we are nothing but immigrants in thailnd, what our home countries considers us is a different story, but if from the usa, you are totally F'd, not only is your income tacabe, thougn not earning it in the usaa or living there, they will steal part, and of course, non military insurance benefits available in the states are null and void outside of the states, and here is a real kicker, if the jokers med bell gets passed, you will be fined for not buying medical insurance you don't want and can't even use if living out of the states. it will cost me more not to have insurance to actually have insurance i can't use......................WTF.

[Paul]

too right its great, dont listen just do it and if it gos bad, sum num na, live life to the max, dont ask just do it.

twotatts

and i will do it again in my next life. lol may be as a dog

If it goes bad - Som nam na?

If you come here (or anywhere that matter) without planning and capital you must be crazy
There is no support system here such as in the West and if you don't have the means to support yourself in some way - FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, then contrary to the above - 'Just DON'T do it !'

I know of at least 2 farangs who spend their days sifting through rubbish bins (Trash cans) looking for plastic bottles to recycle and sell.

Is that someones idea of 'Living the dream' ?

(I will not even go into the visa issue if you don't have the cash in the bank etc....)

[Philrjones]

Hi all,

There is some really good advice and interesting stories re this subject. I suppose we can all look back with hindsight and make some different choices - I know I would about certain things! But I would still go to Thailand if I had the time over. What convinces is me is when I'm away (as now) - a few months back in my homeland reminds me what I miss.

I'm lucky to have found a great wife and her family are terrific - never ask for anything, and nothing is expected. But the way I view living in Thailand is this: when I first went to live in Udon it was with the knowlegde that this could be for 6 months, 6 years or life. If things didn't quite work out as planned, I could always return home for some contract work - it's only a plane ride away. That's what I'm doing now so I can build up the forex trading pot, then come back in Feb to live again and trade online. I think a few ex-pats have left it too long in Udon before returning home for work and hence run out of money. Go before that happens! You can always come back.

I knew if I didn't give it a go, I'd always regret it. At the moment I seem to spend 9 months in Udon, 3 months in Australia working. Seems to be going ok although I miss the wife and kids. If I get sick of Thailand, we'll move to Australia for a while but for the time being I love being there. Time in Australia reminds me of the food I miss, the weather, the culture, seeing mates there over a cold beer and being with my family. Sure it has some down side - everywhere is the same.

In summary I would advise anyone who's thinking of moving to Thailand to do a bit of research and travel a bit, rent, get used to the life and Thai quirks, and don't think it's going to be for the rest of your life. It may be for 1 or 2 years then you move on, but at least you've done it with (hopefully) no regrets, experienced the life and culture and hopefully learned about another part of the world.

I'll be back first week or so of Feb!
Cheers
Phil

[Philrjones]

Oh yes - and plan what you are going to do here in Udon. Whether it's work online like me, teach, develop/continue hobbies, learn the language, help out with disadvantaged kids etc etc. Decide on what you're going to do with your money, i.e. where it will be, how you will access it. Then have a back up plan as well as there are many times when all our best laid plans go pear-shaped!

Eg - My plan involved getting everything sorted before I went to Udon so I could access money, accounts etc online. Made sure my ATM cards would work in Thailand and Laos. Set up trading account before I went as my plan was to trade online in Udon (you can do that online from anywhere though)- I'm not old enough to get pension/super. Back up plan was certainly needed as the GFC hit and I was trading shares without being able to short them. Heaps of money lost during that period so the back up was to go back to Aussie for a bit of work and learn about trading forex at the same time because you can short as well as go long. Seems to be going ok as far as trading and plan goes! Fingers crossed.
Phil

[LoveDaBlues]

too right its great, dont listen just do it and if it gos bad, sum num na, live life to the max, dont ask just do it.

twotatts

and i will do it again in my next life. lol may be as a dog

If it goes bad - Som nam na?

If you come here (or anywhere that matter) without planning and capital you must be crazy
There is no support system here such as in the West and if you don't have the means to support yourself in some way - FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, then contrary to the above - 'Just DON'T do it !'

I know of at least 2 farangs who spend their days sifting through rubbish bins (Trash cans) looking for plastic bottles to recycle and sell.

Is that someones idea of 'Living the dream' ?

(I will not even go into the visa issue if you don't have the cash in the bank etc....)

I'm putting 'most' of my eggs in one basket. I'm building a 5M baht house in UT as I write this. If it all goes 'pear-shaped' as the Brits say......I will be down a bit but not out. My biggest fear is if I DON'T build a nice home but keep renting (4 years now) these crappy-built-crappy-designed Thai places is that in 15 years I look back and say, 'Gee, why didn't I build my own home........I could have been enjoying it all these years.......'. I also want to leave a nice home/property for my wife and child.

Sometimes you gotta scratch yer arse and gamble a bit.

[KHONDAHM]

Great topic! I concur with a lot of the responses already posted. In my case, "I think" I did things imperfectly perfectly and therefore would do it all over again, but perhaps to lesser or greater degrees. For example:

1. I did my research in advance like you are doing now.
2. I lived (rented) in different places to get a feel for what is what
3. I learned the language while doing the dating thing for years and BEFORE I met my wife (and therefore was able to find a good woman). Communication and trust is everything! I do wish I would get off my tush and learn to read more, though.
4. I wish I would have listened to my wife and simply saved (or bought physical gold!) over the years rather than put so much money into the market - lost $ix figure amount$, but have since earned it all back. Still, I don't have what I lost or I would be well retired in Thailand at a very young age. I am a USA university graduate with post academic papers/certifications (including CPA) and all. She is a farm girl who did not finish school. I now bow low to her financial advice. =D>
5. I spent the first 2-3 years "training" my wife to continue to be frugal and not get excited or spoiled with "sudden wealth". She understands that what we have is to be kept and not spent on frivolous things purchased for the sole purpose of sparking envy in her friends. I also trained her to train her family to understand that we are not an ATM. Mom is dead, she sends Pop the drunkard and woman-beater THB 3,000/month, and the rest of the family/friends can "borrow" from a pool of THB 20,000 made available twice per year and distributed at my wife's discretion - and that is ALL. What the wife collects from what is loaned out, she dutifully keeps in her personal account. Everyone is happy and I do not get bothered.

I think the top 3 in the list should be required for anyone serious about successfully living in Thailand.

Cheers!

[Texpat]

36K to pops and 40,000 *distributed* annually ....?
Geez. Bet they're glad to see you two coming.

Ain't no way in he11.

[Philrjones]

Sounds like you got a good one Khondahm and good advice. I'm happy with mine as well - she's great at not spending and doesn't ask for much. Her parents both work and they never ask for anything either. We know we're currently building the wealth where we can. Like you, I also lost a six figure sum on the stocks etc, but now I'm trading forex and it's so much better. Just building up the trading pot now and getting an average of 2% per day, which I'm very happy with.
Cheers
Phil

[KHONDAHM]

Sounds like you got a good one Khondahm and good advice. I'm happy with mine as well - she's great at not spending and doesn't ask for much. Her parents both work and they never ask for anything either. We know we're currently building the wealth where we can. Like you, I also lost a six figure sum on the stocks etc, but now I'm trading forex and it's so much better. Just building up the trading pot now and getting an average of 2% per day, which I'm very happy with.
Cheers
Phil

Excellent! I was thinking about going Forex, too. BUT after what happened before (I sold my gold stocks at what turned out to be the bottom. Doh!), I promised the wife I would shove damn near everything into her account for a year. Who knows? Maybe after that (I would love to get into the renminbi), but right now is a HOT time to be in Forex. I wish you success!