Any Black American Guys Here?

[Galee]

I've met a Black American guy in Mojos a few times. He use to play pool on Wednesdays, not so sure about recently.
His name is David, nice guy. Think he had a home on the Lake Garden Homes estate. If i see him I'll tell him about your topic on here.

[sp12]

I can relate to what khondahm is saying. I am half english/half indian and I have had instances of racism towards me albeit on a much smaller scale to what he is portraying. Most people I meet in thailand will always ask me where I am from and never believe me when I say England. The fact that I have an english name, accent, passport will not change their view. So now I make a joke about it and just say England has many different coloured people, white, black, brown, blue, green.......
In my early days in Thailand when I lived in Pattaya and Bangkok there were 2 occaisions I was refused entry to a gogo, funny thing was I returned to the same venues with 5-6 western friends and the guys on the door couldn't do enough for me.
There are similarities between the thai's opinions of Indians and blacks, largely due to what Khondahm has already said about the africans in bangkok. The Indians are an ever increasing number in Thailand and this will continue due to thailand's policy of encouraging tourists from India. Unfortunately they also have a bad reputation especially in the bars, that they are miserly, travel in large groups which isolates them from intergrating and from what the girls have said they are reluctant to take regular showers.

Anyway don't want to hijack this thread anymore so will just say that education and the advent of time will be the only way to eradicate it eventually. One or two more generations go by and it will all change. In the mean time I will do what Khondahm does and carry myself in the proper way and show my background in a positive manner to our wonderful hosts.

[AussieElla]

There is another nice bloke in town named Bob. He plays pool for the Kinnaree in the Tuesday Udon pool League. Racism is unfortunate no matter where we live, but if we are people of integrity the good ones come out and see us, thats where we find our friends. Stay beautiful!

[venacular50]

We've had similar life experiences and reacting to social ignorance fuels the thoughts of "what we should be or act like." No, don't take any crap...just treat people how you want to be treated and the socially ignorant ones catch on really quick. The outright bigots will remain the same which is living in their own misery. I'd like to invite your family to partake in a Thanksgiving meal on November 26th at the Central Plaza. I need to hear from you in the next day or two. Call me at 0844286930. Al

[Marlowe]

Agree 100% with you v50. Good to see kindness & generosity of spirit alive & well in Udon!

UdonMap really does serve the community well, gotta say, also.

That's what I'm talkin' bout! Ignore the bigots and naysayers - they are not worth it.

Life is too short, you know. Have a good one, guys.

[Dublin Tony]

Theres a coloured guy who quite often goes into Mr.Tongs alone.Sometimes he sits with 3 or 4 Thai ladies and chats with them and buys drinks.
I think they are just friends or acquaintances but if you come to Udon then try visiting Mr.Tongs.

[bigsnake]

Hi Dublin Tony,

What color was he?

[bumper]

Ok not to get to involved in this, but there are Two Black American's in the VFW, here in Udon.

I'm afraid Thailand has very much made me color blind I'm happy to say,

[parrot]

"color blind"

Not just color blind, but country blind as well. There was a day, not so many years ago, when that falang you saw on the streets of Udon was most likely one of 30 or so retired American service members. Today, it could be an American, Canadian (both sides), German, Aussie, Brit, Italian, Israeli, Spaniard, French, Russian, Philippino, Swede, Dutch, Norwegian, Fin.......that's all I know, but I'm sure there are others. Udon's turned into quite a melting pot!

[pompui]

Theres a coloured guy who quite often goes into Mr.Tongs alone.Sometimes he sits with 3 or 4 Thai ladies and chats with them and buys drinks.
I think they are just friends or acquaintances but if you come to Udon then try visiting Mr.Tongs.

Sorry if this is my only post on this thread but I hope Udonmembers appreciate that the word 'coloured' was used many moons ago by white people and is now not appropriate.Black people in England would be livid if someone described them as such.

Welcome Khondahm

[KHONDAHM]

Hey, I really do appreciate the info, sharing of experiences, and camaraderie. You guys/gals are actually beginning to make me think maybe it won't be as bad as before (before being late 2004-2006). I had zero support system in Udon back then and it often felt like "me" versus "them". I hated that daily end-of-day feeling. Having grown up always surrounded by diversity, I really felt bad about it, too. Even family remarked that my attitude had changed as I became a bit sullen when visiting the village and tended to just stay in the house more than usual. I'm now looking forward to going back next year. I will certainly save this thread and follow-up when I am in the area.

As with everything, there are more than a few positives about being me, so let me not be remiss about mentioning a few. The harp isn't playing all the time:

I find that I am less "taken advantage of" by those who would otherwise be scrupulous to a foreigner. For example: When bargaining, people are more inclined to actually believe me when I say, "I cannot buy at that price. I am not rich like falang." Ding! Instant coupon. Forgive me, but I do exploit the heck out of the double stereotypes every friggin' chance I get!

Another is that I can usually walk into a room and not attract attention or prompt the type of "on your toes" behavior I see in a lot of situations when a foreigner shows up. People seem to be more themselves and not so conscious or concerned about what I will think about them if they trip up or something. While it is a bit annoying when I am a customer and left to wait forever, it was really cool back when I was single and would just hang out with Thai friends.

Yet another is that I can often wear my general purpose "angry Black man" scowl if I need to intimidate myself through (such as dealing with stubborn bureaucracy) or out of a situation (such as walking through bad/tough areas). I crack up laughing inside every time I do it! But, hey - if it works...!

Anyway, thanks again, all! Cheers!

[KHONDAHM]

Theres a coloured guy who quite often goes into Mr.Tongs alone.Sometimes he sits with 3 or 4 Thai ladies and chats with them and buys drinks.
I think they are just friends or acquaintances but if you come to Udon then try visiting Mr.Tongs.

Sorry if this is my only post on this thread but I hope Udonmembers appreciate that the word 'coloured' was used many moons ago by white people and is now not appropriate.Black people in England would be livid if someone described them as such.

Welcome Khondahm

Thanks, Pompui! You are right to point that out. It can be taken the wrong way. It doesn't bother me personally because when I hear it (depending on the tone and context, of course) it indicates to me that the person who uses it is actually trying to be polite, but just really may be unaware. It was once considered "proper" and those who are not aware still use it without any malice at all. No foul, no harm. Having traveled around a bit, you'd be surprised at some of the other words used which, in that persons country, are considered perfectly polite and ok. So, when I am abroad, I keep it in context.

Some may/may not know:
In Thai, the polite and proper word is not khon dahm (that's vernacular - roughly equivalent to "black folk/people/guy/gal". The polite and proper word in Thai is "neekoh" (an attempt at "negro"). Yeah! That sounds damn close to a left hook! lol! I recall the first time I heard it was when a Thai friend was teaching a falang to say it to me. Yep, you guessed it! That dude said it wrong! We all had a good laugh and agreed that it best he stick to "khon dahm".

Oh, and before I offend anyone myself, the use of "falang" is often misunderstood. It is vernacular for "white folk/people/guy/gal" and not meant as a derogatory term (but, tone and context can make any word seem derogatory). Calling me or another person of color "falang" is possible, but only in a very, very general sense - like if my wife is talking on the telephone and the person wants to know if her husband is/is not Thai, she would say I am "falang" - as in "not Thai").

Anyway, there I go writing another book. Gettin older and rambling more, I suppose! Cheers!

[bumper]

Yet another is that I can often wear my general purpose "angry Black man" scowl

That so funny does it work here

[KHONDAHM]

Yet another is that I can often wear my general purpose "angry Black man" scowl

That so funny does it work here

Yeah. It's universal like a Swiss army knife except I can get it past Customs and Airport Security. I pack and take it wherever I go and whip it out in an emergency.

It gets me Business Class elbow room on planes (I travel Economy), fart-barrier space in waiting rooms, faster queue times at the ATM, "no peeking" insurance at the urinal when Lady Boys are around, and so many other uses!

[Texpat]

My understanding ...

is that a black person is no more farang than a Chinese. Farang is a white person.

"Farang" is not synonymous with "foreigner."

In Japan they use the term "gaijin" which translates to "outside person." In other words, not Japanese. Irrespective of color. The term, farang is not used that way here. Its usage (mistakenly) refers to a specific color. Farang, originally referred to French, but today a black Frenchman would not be considered a farang, but an Afrikaner would.

Odd.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Yes, my very good friend always refers to black people as negro. However, other people I know will say chocolate man or chocolate woman. A friend who used to live in Sakhon Nakhon is now living in Bangkok with her chocolate man: 'my chocolate man good, he no drink; my chocolate man good, he no smoke; my chocolate man good, he buy me condo; my chocolate man good he have big.... Now the refrain is, 'my chocolate man no good, he no buy me condo; my chocolate man no good, he no buy me clothes; but I love chocolate man, he have big ....' 55555

Her friend from Nong Sa At does not want to meet any of this guy's chocolate friends: 'Chocolate man use drugs, hit and sell woman, make loud noise, not polite, not have jai yen' and so on.

In Toronto many of the older people from places like Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad, St. Lucia and so on refer to themselves as coloured. "Black is beautiful", they say, just not too black.

[warmeduque]

Thanks Khondham for your elaborated answers.

Well for the kaek adjective,i would say that i'm not on the dark side of the mediterranean.
So i can pass as an Italian,Spanish...
The things is that on places where arabs are prevalent(like around nana or in Pattaya)yes some girls will say when i say to them that i'm French..oh you don't look farang,you look like arab or Italian maybe.
If i go to Isaan where there is few arabs,Thais will assume i'm farang..white.

And you?are you on the white side of black or are you very dark?
I honestly think,that if a black man is a metis for example,it will be easier for him, than if he is really really dark.

[KHONDAHM]

I honestly think,that if a black man is a metis for example,it will be easier for him, than if he is really really dark.

I don't personally make an attempt to distinguish myself by hue and just go with the common label. The generic term "Black" is often incorrect, but then so is "White", "Yellow", or "Red". My family is a "We Are the World" poster , and that's been my observation at reunions.

Your observation is valid. Colorism (link in prior post) plays a part as to the intensity of bigotry one faces. But that is true everywhere, not just Thailand.

A long-term friend of mine is very dark - it would not be incorrect to say that he is truly Black - and he was treated much worse than me. I mean it was terrible. So bad, that for the past several years, he essentially stopped going outside unless he was getting food - and that was "internationalized" Pattaya, no less. He was "stuck" in Thailand for several years with the bulk of his retirement wealth tied up in his condo.

I cannot speak highly enough of him as a person. Very kind, respectful, trustworthy, and charitable. The only person I would ever trust my life - or the lives of my family - to in Thailand or anywhere else. He recently sold the condo and is at this very moment headed back to America for a new start at retirement in Florida. He previously really liked Thais. Now...not so much.

Being much older than me, he has said more than once that his experiences in Thailand affected him more than what he went through during the Jim Crow era. Now THAT is saying something.

Ah, well. He's happy as can be now that he on his way out! Good for him! I am 100% sure we will remain very close friends as we have over the years. He was the core of my empathetic support system in Thailand (even more so than my gracious wife at times) and will be missed on those days when it gets to the point where ya just wanna scream to keep from screaming.

[bumper]

Yet another is that I can often wear my general purpose "angry Black man" scowl

That so funny does it work here

Yeah. It's universal like a Swiss army knife except I can get it past Customs and Airport Security. I pack and take it wherever I go and whip it out in an emergency.

It gets me Business Class elbow room on planes (I travel Economy), fart-barrier space in waiting rooms, faster queue times at the ATM, "no peeking" insurance at the urinal when Lady Boys are around, and so many other uses!

I just can't stop laughing about that, I learned what it really was a long time ago. But, if you don't understand it can be vrey intimidating. Bit surprised it would work here though. Since darker colored Thais are looked down on in a very elitist society. More power to you.

[KHONDAHM]

I just can't stop laughing about that, I learned what it really was a long time ago. But, if you don't understand it can be vrey intimidating. Bit surprised it would work here though. Since darker colored Thais are looked down on in a very elitist society. More power to you.

Yeah, it's pretty cool to have sometimes. It used to work on my wife, but now she just mushes me in the face and we both crack up laughing. It's difficult to maintain it around her because she makes me so happy! (altogether now: "awwww....")

It works very well with most Thais. You can see it best in babies and young children. I can walk toward a Thai baby and they will start wailing uncontrollably. You can almost see the blood vessels in their forehead about to burst. My daughter was like that when I first met her at age 2, now you can't peel her away from me. She has a friend, Miew, age 5 (daughter of some friends from the village) who comes over to play every now and then. If she sees me smiling, she just remains timid. If I am not smiling, you can see quiet tears rolling down her face. Really, really weird.

On the other hand, I have a little bad-ass nephew in the village, Cuart, now age 11 who talks trash ("goo.." "hee.." etc.) to everyone except me. Too scared. If I am visiting and he gets too out of control or disobedient, his mother or other relative simply tells him that they are going to tell me of his behavior; and that is usually enough for him to straighten up and fly right. When I see him, the first thing I do is put on the . Then he works to turn it into a and we rough-house play a little, then go walk around the village together. I am told I am his favorite uncle, and he has beat up some of the other boys who have made fun of me in the past. Nobody messes with Cuart - he is the sort of kid who is going to be either a trial judge or a hardened criminal. Hopefully the former.

Although they eventually grow out of it or are able to suppress it as adults, the core fear is still there.