Water Company in Udon Thani (PWA)

[zoomzoom]

Has anyone else had dealings with these idiots?

Our normal, monthly, bill shows a consumption in the region of 10/12 cubic metres but our latest showed usage of 120 cm's, at a cost of 2,500THB!!

So, I contact them by phone, the same morning that the bill was left, but because my Thai is not good and there was nobody there who spoke, reasonable, English I asked my TGF to call them and explain that there must be some form of mistake.

This she did and was asked to get me to go to their office with copies of all this year's bills - I thought that this was crazy because they would be on their computers but thought I would do as I was asked if it would help in expediting matters.

When I arrived, despite the place being almost empty, I was kept waiting at the service window until the two girls sitting there had watched the end of their program on TV (the ceiling mounted TV had been turned round so that only the staff, not the customers could watch it) and then, after much "toing and froing" they managed to dig up someone who did speak English.

It turned out that he (Khun Pong) was not office based and it was pure good fortune (questionable) that he happened to be there.

Anyway, I explained the problem and his immediate reaction was the, not unreasonable, assumption that we must have a leak.

I, though, knew this was not the case (100 cubic metres of water would be noticeable) and I had not even seen a damp patch!

So, his next suggestion was that we have the meter tested and despite my reservations about them being able to find what I assumed to be an intermittent fault I stumped up the 267THB as he told me "not to worry, this will be done properly and that my payment would be returned when a fault was found", in addition, I was told the "we are government and will give customers benefit of any doubt".

I should, also, add that he was not interested in looking at the receipts I had brought and told me that there was no reason for anyone to ask me to do that!

The following day, someone turned up and took the meter away but was then back within 2 hours indicating that no problem with the meter - surprise, surprise!!

Since then, I have spoken on a few occasions to Khun Pong and he tells me that we "must have a leak or left a tap running" and that if we do not pay they will cut off our water.

Now, I start to feel more than a little annoyed and tell him I will not be blackmailed into paying for something we have not used.

Instead, I suggest that they send someone to look at the ground above the 15 metre run from the meter (which now seems to be working ok again and shows only 3cm's being used since the last reading) to our tank and check for themselves if there is any sign of the ground disturbance that would be apparent if an underground pipe had needed to be repaired, or any signs that would indicate that there had been a leak.

Going on his reaction I feel a visit will be unlikely!

Instead, he suggested I go to the office and speak to the manager (Khun Boonluk) who speaks NO English!!

I, politely, declined!

I should, also, add that Pong has, repeatedly, called my TGF at work despite me asking him not and explaining that it is very inconvenient, for her (she works in a bank) to be expected to have a long winded conversation - lasting, normally, 15 - 30 minutes.

When he does this he never talks to her about anything that he and i have not covered but repeats his threats about cutting off our water.

I think that he is working on the assumption that she is like many Thais who will believe pink is blue if told so by a government official.

However, she is not like that, at all, and now just refuses to answer his calls!

Please excuse the length of my rant!

Has anyone else experienced similar problems?

[parrot]

15 years ago a friend of ours got a water bill for 15000 baht......He called up the water police to report the problem. They checked his meter. His meter was good. They asked for payment. He refused....until the man showed up at the door to remove his meter.

The source of the problem? A broken pvc pipe in the foundation of the house. All the water was running into the ground. (He wondered why water pressure was so low inside his home.) Pipe fixed, problem fixed. He paid the water company the 15000 baht.

You might want to check out the thread at http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/p ... an#p304228 as a possible solution to further dealing with the water company.

Good luck!

[fdimike]

Easy to check if there's a leak in the line between the meter and the house. Turn off all the water taps & toilet valves in/outside the house. Go look at the meter. If the dial is moving (even a little) then you have a leak. To isolate the leak begin by turning off the water going to your storage tank & check the meter dial again. If the dial is still moving you have a leak in the line between the meter & the tank. Turn off the valve between the storage tank and the house & check the dial again for movement. You will have to continue turing off valves to try to isolate the leak. If all is ok then inform Mr Pong that there is no leak.
You should also check the meter readings comparing them to last months and the current reading.

[zoomzoom]

Hi Parrot,

Many thanks for your reply.

I can't, though, find a way to open your suggested link - I think I've tried all combinations.

Could you, please, check it and re-advise?

Many thanks in advance.

Regarding your friend's experience - imagine an area measuring 10 metres X 10 metres which is 1 metre deep in water - that is a LOT of water - that is what PWA are suggesting has leaked!

I have NO problems with water pressure, no signs of a leak and the water meter is now (seemingly) acting normally.

There is NO chance of me paying the bill, I would rather relocate than do that.

I'm (I think) someone of principle - if I owe one THB I will make sure that I pay it (I will pull a shopkeeper if I think I have been undercharged), BUT if someone asks me to pay 1 THB, that I do not owe, they can wait until hell freezes over!

[fdimike]

Zoom

Please understand you could easily have a leak underground or a leaking toilet flapper valve (inside the tank) and never know it. You need to check your lines & the toilets as well to make sure they are functioning correctly. There's no way to determine if the meter is acting normally without performing the checks already outlined.

[zoomzoom]

Easy to check if there's a leak in the line between the meter and the house. Turn off all the water taps & toilet valves in/outside the house. Go look at the meter. If the dial is moving (even a little) then you have a leak. To isolate the leak begin by turning off the water going to your storage tank & check the meter dial again. If the dial is still moving you have a leak in the line between the meter & the tank. Turn off the valve between the storage tank and the house & check the dial again for movement. You will have to continue turing off valves to try to isolate the leak. If all is ok then inform Mr Pong that there is no leak.
You should also check the meter readings comparing them to last months and the current reading.

Many thanks for taking the time to respond.

I've done what you suggest and can see no movement.

Even if there was movement (which was too small for me to notice) then that would not demonstrate I had a MAJOR leak!

Also, leaks do not repair themselves - they get worse!

So, how/why has my water meter returned to showing "normalish" consumption?

It just does not make any sense!

What I find incredible, about the leak suggestion, is that the water company are, seemingly, not prepared to send someone to check for any evidence of a leak - 100+ cubic metres of water will not just, miraculously, disappear and expect me to "roll over" and give in to their blackmail attempts!

I will, on Wednesday, be escalating this to their Bangkok head office.

This action cannot be performed before then because the PWA website is only available on the Thai language and my TGF will then be home!

[zoomzoom]

Zoom

Please understand you could easily have a leak underground or a leaking toilet flapper valve (inside the tank) and never know it. You need to check your lines & the toilets as well to make sure they are functioning correctly. There's no way to determine if the meter is acting normally without performing the checks already outlined.

100+ cubic metres of water do not, though, just disappear.

That is more than enough water to fill an average domestic swimming pool!

Why are the water company reluctant to send someone to check?

I have reached my conclusions on that one!

They know that what I am suggesting is logical BUT do not wish any of their employees to "lose face"!

[zoomzoom]

A continuation of my last reply to "fdimike" - My edit was timed out.

I find the name "Pong" to be quite apt, because his attitude stinks and he has to be one of the most "two faced" individuals it has, ever, been my misfortune to encounter.

It would appear to be "I have NO desire to check and see if what you are saying is correct, I will just continue to threaten you!"

[fdimike]

Zoom

Ask for a record of your usage over the past 6 months. They should be able to show the meter readings (start/stop) as well. Compare last months ending figure with what you have on the meter now. If the meter was misread it should be evident in those numbers as they won't support the additional usage.
Just a suggestion.

[Panty Hamster]

I had a leaking toilet flapper-valve once.
My wife scrubbed the edges of the flapper-valve -- seems there was some salty sort of buildup on it. It wasn't seating cleanly on the sculpted, artistic, rounded edges of American's Standard.
The ground water here isn't very clean and after a while (a year or so) some chalky residue builds up on the gears inside the toilet tank. Maybe that's why the locals prefer the squat-n-dump method. No squirrely valves to worry about.

This is the penalty we pay for being so presumptuous to believe we can improve the standard of living here. I've considered demanding my wife run down to fetch flushing water from the river twice a day. One step forward, two steps back.

A tenfold increase in any bill, without any noticeable consumption spike, is good reason for inquiry. The problem might be before your meter, it might not. Don't expect any Thai utility to be overly concerned. The problem is yours until you can prove it is not. Paradise, innit?

[zoomzoom]

Zoom

Ask for a record of your usage over the past 6 months. They should be able to show the meter readings (start/stop) as well. Compare last months ending figure with what you have on the meter now. If the meter was misread it should be evident in those numbers as they won't support the additional usage.
Just a suggestion.

I have all of my bills/receipts since the beginning of this year.

They show my average, monthly, usage as being (approximately) 10.7 cubic metres.

To then be told that I had used 120 cubic metres in a month and the water company NOT being prepared to send anyone to substantiate their allegations that I have a leak (when I KNOW that I do not) I find unacceptable.

Bullies and blackmailers will find I give back more than they expect!

I had a leaking toilet flapper-valve once.
My wife scrubbed the edges of the flapper-valve -- seems there was some salty sort of buildup on it. It wasn't seating cleanly on the sculpted, artistic, rounded edges of American's Standard.
The ground water here isn't very clean and after a while (a year or so) some chalky residue builds up on the gears inside the toilet tank. Maybe that's why the locals prefer the squat-n-dump method. No squirrely valves to worry about.

This is the penalty we pay for being so presumptuous to believe we can improve the standard of living here. I've considered demanding my wife run down to fetch flushing water from the river twice a day. One step forward, two steps back.

A tenfold increase in any bill, without any noticeable consumption spike, is good reason for inquiry. The problem might be before your meter, it might not. Don't expect any Thai utility to be overly concerned. The problem is yours until you can prove it is not. Paradise, innit?

My house is on a fairly new estate in Udon.

The meter worked fine (as far as I'm aware) since it was installed, approximately, 3 years ago and it would appear to be working ok again now.

My own theory, with nothing to base it on, is that when it should have clicked onto 500 units it clicked, instead, onto 600.

How else can a meter be working ok and then (again) be working ok?

No evidence of any leak - not even a slight damp patch and yet they are trying to tell me that my consumption (for ONLY one month) rose (leaked) by more than 100 cubic metres.

Do they believe that all evidence has, miraculously, disappeared and that a leak has repaired itself?

They are ting tong and refuse to check the evidence that would prove them to be wrong!!

[fdimike]

Zoom

Average use will not prove a thing. Somone could easily say you left a faucet running or whatever. You need the start/stop figures for each month. Then compare the stop figure from last month with the curent meter reading. If there's a problem with the meter the stop figure from last month will probably exceed what you currently have on the meter. That will show a defective/misread meter.