TAX on Income from Abroad

[tamada]

This may be a point of interest for some. It's been assumed that a foreigner can use their 13-digit personal ID number (PIN) that's in their Yellow Book, as their Thailand Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) same as Thai citizens can. According to updated sources, this is not the case for foreigners, and they will be issued a 10-digit TIN by the Revenue Department instead.

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/tax-id ... -thailand/

Don't shoot the messenger.

Ta
tam

Do not believe that anything that is in that article is categorically true. It absolutely is not TIT YMMV.
The requirement for ALL foreigners to have a if they have any income TIN is bogus, many offices will NOT issue one unless you are reclaiming tax paid or paying tax. This is in direct contradiction to the letter of the tax law.
Until it is activated in the TRD database a foreigners id number is not their TIN Many TRD offices are activating the pink card/yellow book 13 digit number, some are not.

I never suggested anything otherwise.

Relax FFS

[sometimewoodworker]

I never suggested anything otherwise.

Relax FFS

That is exactly what you suggested.

Along with the advertising link shilling for business, also providing partial information, some fake some real

There has been a post proving your reported claim to be false in Udon

The orange buffoon does the same thing with slightly more success

[tamada]

I never suggested anything otherwise.

Relax FFS

That is exactly what you suggested.

Along with the advertising link shilling for business, also providing partial information, some fake some real

There has been a post proving your reported claim to be false in Udon

The orange buffoon does the same thing with slightly more success

I never suggested anything. I posted a link to an article that suggests that the makeup off a foreigner's TIN may differ.

And what's Trump got to do with anything here?

That's a pretty wild hair you've got up your ass. Better deal with it lest people start taking you seriously.

[Brian Davis]

Which revenue office (street location) was this helpful young man working at?

Yes, the location is as shown in your photo. The building was to the right as you go in the entrance.

The process of submitting a tax return is that.
1) you discover all the allowances you are eligible for on the Thai tax system plus the zero rated tax band, this is a variable number ranging from ฿210,000 to upwards of ฿600,000 (do not forget the Thai bank withholding tax as a credit)
2)Then you calculate all your remittances
3) Then you decide if the remittances are assessable for Thai tax or not.
4) Then you calculate the tax you may have paid on the assessable remittances and add that as a virtual deduction from any Thai tax due
5) You then submit your return and either 1) get a refund 2) pay the amount of tax you have calculated or 3) do nothing and get nothing because you are not required to pay any tax.

I was going to suggest that someone hopefully correctly informed about the process from submission of the form(and what paperwork, other than the obvious, must be provided e.g bank statement) onwards might like to enlighten the rest of us. I did think that more information was to be provided by the Revenue Service itself. I will have to look at the actual tax return form again, as to where one can enter (4) above and if you make a claim for a reduction in Thai tax due at this point in the process, one presumably would be expected to provide evidence to back up your claim? - OR, as was suggested to me previously, is it left to the Revenue Office to connect with, in my case, the UK, using my national insurance number?

[tamada]

Just to say that only the other day, the young man in the main Udon Revenue Office (and perhaps the only officer with reasonable English!) gave me to understand that my pink ID card could be used for tax return purposes. I may be mistaken here, but my understanding and surprise was that the National ID number and TIN number are the same. He actually took the pink card and went to the computer. Whether he was checking the validity of the card, or activating the number on the TRD database at this time, I don't know.
Maybe someone can explain the process. If you are eligible to pay tax, do you have to 'pay up' first and then reclaim it subsequently under DTA? Again, the Udon guy suggested there was another building where the latter was dealt with.

Thanks for confirming we went to the same office. I recall from other conversations that when you are issued a TIN, you receive a RD receipt or small form that has your TIN on it.

When the chap suggested "another building" he probably meant the one on the left as that's where after getting a blank filing form, I was ultimately given the runaround, with the boss lady suggesting that I couldn't take the form home and it had to be completed in the office. She did suggest that I would need either my bank book or a bank statement so they could determine the inbound foreign remittances. Since I am married with two kids still at school and college with Yai happily still wasting oxygen, I would have some claimable allowances but no telling what proof they would require to approve them.

Note this filing form was in Thai, hence my request to take it home. I have seen English language versions online, however I didn't check if that was downloadable and printable option or part of an online filing procedure or even if they're officially approved.

[tamada]

For info: a friend of mine who was working in Thailand previously, had his original 10-digit Thai TIN changed to a 13-digit one about five years ago at the RD office his then employee was reporting to.

[sometimewoodworker]

Which revenue office (street location) was this helpful young man working at?

Yes, the location is as shown in your photo. The building was to the right as you go in the entrance.

The process of submitting a tax return is that.
1) you discover all the allowances you are eligible for on the Thai tax system plus the zero rated tax band, this is a variable number ranging from ฿210,000 to upwards of ฿600,000 (do not forget the Thai bank withholding tax as a credit)
2)Then you calculate all your remittances
3) Then you decide if the remittances are assessable for Thai tax or not.
4) Then you calculate the tax you may have paid on the assessable remittances and add that as a virtual deduction from any Thai tax due
5) You then submit your return and either 1) get a refund 2) pay the amount of tax you have calculated or 3) do nothing and get nothing because you are not required to pay any tax.

I was going to suggest that someone hopefully correctly informed about the process from submission of the form(and what paperwork, other than the obvious, must be provided e.g bank statement) onwards might like to enlighten the rest of us. I did think that more information was to be provided by the Revenue Service itself. I will have to look at the actual tax return form again, as to where one can enter (4) above and if you make a claim for a reduction in Thai tax due at this point in the process, one presumably would be expected to provide evidence to back up your claim? - OR, as was suggested to me previously, is it left to the Revenue Office to connect with, in my case, the UK, using my national insurance number?

There is very little paperwork to be submitted, though you will need to keep everything in the event you get challenged.
The revenue office doesn’t contact HMRC. You need to do everything, this is accepted as correct or at some later date (possibly as long as 3 years) you may have to justify all the calculations, deductions, tax paid to HMRC etc.
If you are reclaiming withholding tax you will need to provide bank statements proving the tax withholding.

Just think about the process.
You pay tax to HMRC
You remit some money to Thailand, it may have been taxed, it maybe part of you tax free allowance.
Q:Exactly how is HMRC going to determine the amount of tax paid on the money remitted to Thailand?
A:You make calculations, you decide, at some point TRD may ask you to prove your calculations are correct.

It is possible that this may come when you submit your return, this is unlikely as it’s likely to take considerable time with an English speaking staff member or require you to bring a translator. There are very few English speakers employed by the TRD.

[Brian Davis]

Just think about the process.
You pay tax to HMRC
You remit some money to Thailand, it may have been taxed, it maybe part of you tax free allowance.
Q:Exactly how is HMRC going to determine the amount of tax paid on the money remitted to Thailand?
A:You make calculations, you decide, at some point TRD may ask you to prove your calculations are correct.

A good point, sometimewoodworker. I can only repeat that I was told ' a form will be sent', but agreed that whilst HMRC produce paperwork showing your total taxed UK income, only some of that income may be sent by the individual to Thailand anyway.
My personal situation is probably unusual is that ALL my UK income(four pensions) is sent to Thailand; I don't maintain a UK bank account either, so the HMRC tax statements would, I think, be relevant in my case, because they show the total picture.
I must say I find this whole matter rather strange. Some agencies are advising that you should fill in a form, but many individuals seem they won't bother. Apparently, there have been meetings between involved parties(Embassies and the like) to clarify matters, I think we were promised more information, but I'm not aware that anything more has appeared.

[sometimewoodworker]

Just think about the process.
You pay tax to HMRC
You remit some money to Thailand, it may have been taxed, it maybe part of you tax free allowance.
Q:Exactly how is HMRC going to determine the amount of tax paid on the money remitted to Thailand?
A:You make calculations, you decide, at some point TRD may ask you to prove your calculations are correct.

A good point, sometimewoodworker. I can only repeat that I was told ' a form will be sent', but agreed that whilst HMRC produce paperwork showing your total taxed UK income, only some of that income may be sent by the individual to Thailand anyway.
My personal situation is probably unusual is that ALL my UK income(four pensions) is sent to Thailand; I don't maintain a UK bank account either, so the HMRC tax statements would, I think, be relevant in my case, because they show the total picture.
I must say I find this whole matter rather strange. Some agencies are advising that you should fill in a form, but many individuals seem they won't bother. Apparently, there have been meetings between involved parties(Embassies and the like) to clarify matters, I think we were promised more information, but I'm not aware that anything more has appeared.

Your personal U.K. tax statement is an accurate reflection of the U.K. tax paid on your remittances.

This however makes zero difference to the TRD. They do not question HMRC they rely on you doing the work.

Your case is remarkably simple.
You know the exact amount remitted.
You know the exact tax paid to HMRC, so you know exactly how much you can reduce your Thai tax liability.
You know (or you should know) all the amounts you can claim on your TRD return.
So it is child’s play to compute.

It is extremely likely that the total tax due to the TRD is zero as your U.K. taxes are almost certainly more than your Thai tax liability.

The letter of the Thai tax code is that you should fill in a tax return even though there is no tax due.
The practice of virtually all the TRD offices is no tax due, no tax refund, do not file a return

Those who are not going to file are following the TRD practice or are convinced that the TRD is not going to bother with the small amount of tax they may be due to pay. Both are probably correct.

Of course there are numerous accounts and lawyers pointing to the letter of the tax code and saying you must file, they are drumming up business. They are all technically correct, you will suffer no harm (apart from your wallet) by paying them to file for you.

If you are remitting many millions or hundreds of millions of baht you will be on the TRD radar. You may have noticed that Thailand is remarkably pragmatic in its approach to monetary matters. The police will set up traps if the weather is good and the numbers caught are going to be high. I’ve never seen them in the rain! So low hanging fruit will get picked.

There has been no more information published because there is nothing new.

[Brian Davis]

Your personal U.K. tax statement is an accurate reflection of the U.K. tax paid on your remittances.

This however makes zero difference to the TRD. They do not question HMRC they rely on you doing the work.

Your case is remarkably simple.
You know the exact amount remitted.
You know the exact tax paid to HMRC, so you know exactly how much you can reduce your Thai tax liability.
You know (or you should know) all the amounts you can claim on your TRD return.
So it is child’s play to compute.

It is extremely likely that the total tax due to the TRD is zero as your U.K. taxes are almost certainly more than your Thai tax liability.

Thank you for your input STWW.
If I accept that the TRD rely only on the completed tax return and your evidence, I wonder what the seemingly helpful young man was on about regarding 'sending a form'.
I have completed a draft of the return (downloaded English version incidentally) and came up with owing a few thousand baht. I'm thinking that result is possibly explained by the fact my UK state pension is not taxed at source, but has to be included as taxable income here.
Yes, my case seems very straightforward and I don't feel the need to use an agency, which has, after all, a business to run.
Child's play? Well there's one thing which is still a puzzle, at least to me! So, if you're completing your own form and 'on your own' , you're expected to compare UK tax paid in pounds sterling and Thai tax due in baht - and give a figure on the form. With varying exchange rates over the calendar year, what calculation is used? Some talk of a formula? Compared on a monthly basis, exchange rate at end of year, rate when you submit the return?????? Anybody know how it's done?

[tamada]

Use the forex rate of the day from Bank of Thailand, and either print out or keep a reference to this. The filing isn't supposed to match whatever forex rate the local RD office is using on the day you file, but you will have proof of what you used. I imagine that any disparity will be pretty small as they will probably use the BoT official rates rather than the foreign bank rate. In the unlikely event that the Thai RD decides to audit your filing, you have retained a copy of the forex rate you applied.

https://www.bot.or.th/en/statistics/exchange-rate.html

[rick]

Hmm... very little of my UK income ever hits a Thai bank - most of it is spent/obtained with UK cards. It would be a pain having to keep all those ATM receipts, which usually fade away completely after a few months.....

Also i am confident that my allowances and DTA pension will put me below any level of Thai taxation.

[Bandung_Dero]

Completed my annual visa extension this morning. TIN or anything associated with it not bought up at either KBank or the Immigration Office. I, for one, am still not going to get my "Knickers in a Twist" over this fiasco --- well, until I'm taken away in handcuffs!

[joepai]

Hmm... very little of my UK income ever hits a Thai bank - most of it is spent/obtained with UK cards. It would be a pain having to keep all those ATM receipts, which usually fade away completely after a few months.....

Also i am confident that my allowances and DTA pension will put me below any level of Thai taxation.

That's great as long as the items purchased are not in Thailand as all monies spent on Cards in Thailand will be accounted for in Thailand for your tax assessment

[Barney]

Hopefully in a few weeks after the end of the tax year 31st Dec 2024 members can advise exactly what they were required to do when submitting a Thai tax return. Lots of good advice and notes from many. Will be good to recieve a final resolution of what really transpired for members.

[rick]

Hmm... very little of my UK income ever hits a Thai bank - most of it is spent/obtained with UK cards. It would be a pain having to keep all those ATM receipts, which usually fade away completely after a few months.....

Also i am confident that my allowances and DTA pension will put me below any level of Thai taxation.

That's great as long as the items purchased are not in Thailand as all monies spent on Cards in Thailand will be accounted for in Thailand for your tax assessment

In Theory. I believe that credit card expenditure is not covered by the CRS, in which case one more hurdle for the Thai Inland revenue to negotiate if trying to assess you for tax.