TAX on Income from Abroad

[Khun Paul]

Yep I Am aware of that and as the Old Age Pension is included in y UK income tax allowance I THEREFORE PAY MORE Income tax on y pension. but as the THAI GOVT HAS Stated the old age p[ension is tax free therefore can be taxed, technically they will owe me, but as you say I AM Waiting for the desert to freeze over and the seas to become arid before that happens.

[noosard]

Just spoke with my tax advisor and no point paying here as would still have to pay the difference in Oz

[Whistler]

Don't governments compete for capital with commerce all the time no matter what the interest rates are ?

Yes.

Predicting governments will have to go to the private sector to fund their programs is like predicting sunrise in the east.

David,

A tad sharp. Before you became a member of this forum, there was a thread about what would happen post COVID. The world was at that time in a low interest period. Before leaping in, perhaps you could call up that thread and view it with a mindset at that time, and review the reasoning behind the comment. To post a complete list of post covid potential fallouts, and to not include interest rate rises would have been a tad silly. Current inflation, and rate rises have now of course been compounded by the Ukraine war.

Of course there is always competition in raising finance, but there is also reduced competition when economies are improving which drives down interest rates when bond rates drop, pre Covid this is what was happening in many countries.

Sorry for the late response, but I have been traveling.

[Barney]

I have just had my thai tax return for 2023 completed.

Part of the statement from my agent which may provide interested parties with info is.
Mine is just a basic salary income statement but there are sections in the P.N.D.91 return form for investments and pensions within Thailand.

The tax return has been completed based on the information provided to us by the company. In general, we have obtained your employment related compensation/benefits from the Thailand Company and/or your home employer (if applicable). Please note however it is the individual’s responsibility to ensure that they have provided us with their “personal” income information (e.g. investment income, etc.) that may be taxable in Thailand. In general, offshore personal income that is not remitted into Thailand during the year of Thai tax residency (defined under the domestic law as being in Thailand for 180 days or more during the calendar year) would not be subject to Thailand personal income tax and therefore we would not need information in regard to this.

[sometimewoodworker]

I have just had my thai tax return for 2023 completed.

Part of the statement from my agent which may provide interested parties with info is.
Mine is just a basic salary income statement but there are sections in the P.N.D.91 return form for investments and pensions within Thailand.

The tax return has been completed based on the information provided to us by the company. In general, we have obtained your employment related compensation/benefits from the Thailand Company and/or your home employer (if applicable). Please note however it is the individual’s responsibility to ensure that they have provided us with their “personal” income information (e.g. investment income, etc.) that may be taxable in Thailand. In general, offshore personal income that is not remitted into Thailand during the year of Thai tax residency (defined under the domestic law as being in Thailand for 180 days or more during the calendar year) would not be subject to Thailand personal income tax and therefore we would not need information in regard to this.

That statement, specifically the last sentence is specific to years 2023 and before.
It will need substantial revision for tax year 2024 and beyond.

[semperfiguy]

Nearly two weeks ago I appeared at the Thai Revenue Department to file my Thai Tax Return for 2023 in order to arrange the yearly refund of my Bangkok Bank interest withholdings. In and out in 15 minutes with no mention of any other income from local or foreign sources. Easy peasy!!!!

[FrazeeDK]

based on the info above, it appears the head honchos in Treasury have not disseminated any information of this new policy which purportedly took effect 1 January... So, we can only wait and see what happens...

[sometimewoodworker]

Nearly two weeks ago I appeared at the Thai Revenue Department to file my Thai Tax Return for 2023 in order to arrange the yearly refund of my Bangkok Bank interest withholdings. In and out in 15 minutes with no mention of any other income from local or foreign sources. Easy peasy!!!!

There would have been nothing required for the 2023 tax year so that is hardly surprising.

The interesting point will be the next tax year. I also hear that Thailand maybe a self reporting tax country, but like all tax forms you will be declaring that you have reported any taxable income so when you submit next years forms you will be well advised to take advice on what needs to be reported as I believe you do not need to report something that is not taxable. This last is supposition not a known fact


My understanding for example, if you receive a gift it is not income so not reportable

[sometimewoodworker]

based on the info above, it appears the head honchos in Treasury have not disseminated any information of this new policy which purportedly took effect 1 January... So, we can only wait and see what happens...

That is not correct, the information has been widely disseminated, the rule changes were published on September 18 (Paw. 161/2566)

and clarified in Paw. 162/2566 20 November 2023

What is current unclear is exactly what will be required to comply with the policy which took effect on 1 January 2024 and affects tax returns in 2025

On 18 September 2023, the Revenue Departmental instruction number Paw. 161/2566 (“DI. Paw. 161”) was issued, which provides a new interpretation of the personal income tax treatment of foreign-sourced income derived by a Thai individual tax resident under the Revenue Code (the "Code").

The Revenue Department, through Departmental Instruction No. Paw 162/2566, 20 November 2023, has introduced a significant amendment to Clause 1, Paragraph 2 of Paw 162/2566, clearly stating that “Paragraph 1 shall not apply to assessable income earned before January 1, 2024.” This addition addresses the concerns of both Thai and foreign individuals qualifying as Thai tax residents, who earned offshore income before January 1, 2024. The worry that remitting offshore income into Thailand would incur Thai personal income tax is now alleviated. Consequently, Thai tax residents who earned income before January 1, 2024, are not required to repatriate such income into Thailand by the end of 2023 to avoid tax obligations.

[anefarious1]

It's very simple. It may be a taxable event if you sent a bunch of money to Thailand, and live there for more than 180 days in the calendar year, AND those funds were earned after Dec 31, 2013. That's it.

If you have savings, make it easy for the authorities to determine that you sent those savings rather than earnings. Do this by segregating accounts. Do not use an account to send money to Thailand that you also deposit current income into. Only use an account where you keep old money ie. savings that you had prior to this year.

Too easy. Not tax evasion, just smart.

[jackspratt]

...... AND those funds were earned after Dec 31, 2013. That's it.

Typo - the year is 2023.

[Khun Paul]

I do love the way that many people, most of whom have ZERO clues about the actual situation spout theories coupled with absolute rubbish.
Bottom lne is in reality unless you run a business are are already involved i the tax system no-one knows so why dont all those so-called WISE people ( i use that word sparingly ) be quiet and lets see what transpires .
Sure some of what has been said by the so-called knowlegeable people makes a little sense, but we forget that here what is logical is not and what makes sense does not `, so least said better for all or like me talk to a friendly accountant but as mine said to me tax is individual it is not and never will be one solution solves it all. Ber that in mind before spouting theories . THat is why I do not only what can be factually proven. Which so far is almost bloody nothing

[anefarious1]

...... AND those funds were earned after Dec 31, 2013. That's it.

Typo - the year is 2023.

Thanks for catching that typo. It's Dec 31, 2023 indeed!

@Khun Paul Can you tell us what was posted here that is absolute rubbish? This topic is so consequential that fallacious information should be called out and corrected. I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

[Khun Paul]

...... AND those funds were earned after Dec 31, 2013. That's it.

Typo - the year is 2023.

Thanks for catching that typo. It's Dec 31, 2023 indeed!

@Khun Paul Can you tell us what was posted here that is absolute rubbish? This topic is so consequential that fallacious information should be called out and corrected. I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

Well i am no accountant , bu I did discuss with my Thai accountant soe of the ideas floated by some on here, suffice to say she is still laughing !!

[tamada]

...... AND those funds were earned after Dec 31, 2013. That's it.

Typo - the year is 2023.

Thanks for catching that typo. It's Dec 31, 2023 indeed!

@Khun Paul Can you tell us what was posted here that is absolute rubbish? This topic is so consequential that fallacious information should be called out and corrected. I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

Well i am no accountant , bu I did discuss with my Thai accountant soe of the ideas floated by some on here, suffice to say she is still laughing !!

So very, very happy for you KP, really happy.

[sometimewoodworker]

I do believe, at this point, there is enough guidance from the Thai Revenue Department to plan ahead and possibly minimize any tax burden.

That is true for those who have no foreign income.

However I think the majority do have either foreign income or foreign funds being remitted into Thailand and for them they need to study the details of their DTA and the Thai treatment of funds remitted.

To give a particular example (note I am not an expert and will welcome anyone who can point out errors in the calculations [supported by references] or incorrect assumptions.)
I haven’t studied the U.K. DTA and the assumption under is that all money taxed in the U.K. is allowed and covered in the DTA (I know there are exceptions CGT up to £10,000 is one)

The U.K. tax allowance is currently £12,570
U.K. income £40,000
U.K. tax (2024) £ 5,486

Amount remitted to Thailand
฿1,571,077

Thai tax calculation
Allowances claimed ฿160,000
Ballence to be taxed ฿1.406,924
Tax due ฿216,731

Thai Tax due ฿216,731 - U.K. tax paid ฿248,810.212 = -32,079

Result Thai tax to pay = zero

Questions;
Do you need a Thai tax declaration? IDK; supposition, no tax due maybe not
Do you need to show proof of U.K. tax paid? IDK; supposition, if a tax form is required, yes.
Do you need to prove the money transferred was from U.K. taxed income? IDK; supposition, if the amount transferred is under 1,571,077 no if it is over yes

[glalt]

All posts are pure speculation. We won't know anything until the dust settles and then we still won't know for sure. I seriously doubt that Thailand would risk losing future retirees by taxing pensions. This whole thing has blown up while I think this new tax was aimed at wealthy people dodging taxes in any country.

[sometimewoodworker]

All posts are pure speculation. We won't know anything until the dust settles and then we still won't know for sure. I seriously doubt that Thailand would risk losing future retirees by taxing pensions. This whole thing has blown up while I think this new tax was aimed at wealthy people dodging taxes in any country.

What is your definition of pure speculation?
(For example the above calculation is from HMRC via the WITCH tax calculator and the UOB Asset management calculator)

You posit that “ You seriously doubt that Thailand would risk losing future retirees by taxing pensions.”
How many people are affected? Thailand population 71 million foreigners 150k are retired/married/living with Thai's
Of those 150,000 how many will see a change? 50,000? Or 0.07% and that is looking at a worse case scenario more likely 5,000 or 0.007% so that statement qualifies as pure speculation, doesn’t it?

Thailand is looking to encourage high net worth individuals and offers a visa that exempts them from Thai tax.
It appears that poor, or low income foreigners are either discouraged or ignored.

The revenue department has no incentive to reduce its income and was probably instructed to close the extraordinary loophole, simple to do with probable a great effect.

Depending on your countries DTA you can see that a taxed pension from the U.K. doesn’t incur Thai tax

Countries are all levelling the playing field.

If you have taxed income you will probably pay nothing
If you have un taxed or very low taxed income you will be paying Thai tax and need to look at different possibilities.

You are probably correct in the aims of the change, though “dodging” implies tax evasion and is illegal
Tax avoidance is different and is almost a duty and a huge loophole is now closed.

[glalt]

Speculation is the same as guessing. Thailand actively encourages new retirees and taxing pensions would certainly affect retiring here. It is true that Thailand wants retirees who can afford to support themselves. That's the reason they require 800,000 .baht in a Thai bank or 65,000 baht monthly income. We do pay the VAT that supports the Thai government. I'd GUESS that they are after people who make Thailand a tax haven.

[sometimewoodworker]

“Speculation is the same as guessing” I don’t disagree, however there is Speculation with a sound basis of fact, the majority of my speculation is this, I am often correct.

There is speculation with no basis in fact or with very poor support for the speculation, the claim that the Thai tax changes will vastly reduce the numbers of people wishing to stay in Thailand is that kind of speculation.

There are people who are dissatisfied with their situation in Thailand who may leave because it’s the straw that broke the camel’s back they are grumbling with no information.