Brexit and Leadership.

[thaiguzzi]

Another climb down, in project fear #1 we were warned that each household would be £4,300 worse off after Brexit, after a rethink that was calculated to maybe, could be, might be £1000 and now after a reworking of the numbers it will only be £500 (perhaps)... and they wonder why no one takes them or their dire predictions seriously.

So not similar to putting 340 mil back into the NHS that we save from spending in Europe EVERY WEEK then?

[joudon]

If you bothered to understand the 340 million back into the NHS promise!
It was based on when the UK actually LEFT the EU gravy train ,
NOT after the the leave referendum victory.
Do you remainers EVER give up.?

[rick]

It was based on when the UK actually LEFT the EU gravy train ,
NOT after the the leave referendum victory.
Do you remainers EVER give up.?

Well, I think the dire consequences also only apply after we leave as well ..... except for the fall in the value of the pound (which has left me about 15% worse off the last 2 years) ......

I wonder what will happen to farmers after Brexit? Without subsidies most would be bankrupt. There are lots of horror stories about what may happen after a hard Brexit, and i am sure MOST will not happen ..... but any positives (which are all very vague) will be a long way in the future. Guess we will start seeing the ---- hitting the fan in October, once all those clever politicians come back from their holidays and start reading the contingency plans (if any).

[choi choi]

Losing pension?
https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/24/brexit-m ... l-7754046/

[GT93]

I suspect if I was British, the fear campaign would have made me vote for Brexit. However it is possible if I had British children I might have voted remain.

The UK is strong enough to get through this despite the short term pain. The sky isn't going to fall on Britons' heads but I think there will be a lot of squealing next year.

City folks shouldn't be subsidizing rural people. That was one of many negatives with EU membership. I suspect because of the politics the British government will still have urban residents subsidizing rural residents.

[vincemunday]

I don't think you understand how things work in the UK and perhaps it's unwise to comment until you do in case someone takes umbrage and decides to put you straight. In the UK EVERYONE who is working pays into a central pot via taxation and national insurance, unlike the States we do not have Haves and Have Nots, EVERYONE is entitled to assistance both medically and financially on equal terms. It could be said London generates most income but that's only due to the concentration of financial services etc, we mustn't lose sight that not so long ago much of our income was supplied by the Northern Industrial power houses who sent goods and raw materials all around the world albeit via London. Your understanding of how the EU will impact the UK also seems a bit lacking, we are still the biggest banking and financial centre of the world despite claims by NY, Paris and Frankfurt to the contrary and even the banks are beginning to admit Brexit will not impact that position anything like Carney et al were promising. I'm not sure why you think we will be squealing, I'd be VERY interested in seeing what you base this claim on, and by the by, British people are renown for getting on with things, we don't squeal....

[papafarang]

project fear, losing pensions ? if that was even slightly true we wouldn't have been getting pensions in Thailand,as for insurance , going on holiday ? get travel insurance . talk about fake news, couldn't get more blatant than that

[vincemunday]

A sensible post, you're quite right PF it's all project fear.

[GT93]

I can't really follow how your post links to mine Vince. When Brexit arrives, not all Britons will be affected equally. Some sectors or groups will be hit harder and they will be squealing loudly for government assistance.

[vincemunday]

I doubt they will "squeal" but most businesses have had a couple of years to get accustomed to the fact we are leaving the EU and to put alternative procedures in place and if they've failed to do that it's their problem and I doubt they will get any help from central government. As I stated earlier, your knowledge of the UK and Brexit is very limited (I'm being polite) best not to comment until you understand things a bit better.

[GT93]

555. I'll comment as that's my right thanks but I agree on your statement about my knowledge although there are huge uncertainties about what's coming. For example, soft or hard Brexit. I think hard Brexit is more likely since the EU is so difficult to deal with.

It's not just sectors of business that will squeal. When there are disruptive changes in democracies that are difficult to predict, people agitate to protect their interests. That's going to be the UK in 2019 and 2020? It's just politics. I expect this result of Brexit is going to dominate the political discourse in the UK for some time. The Tories will need to manage their base.

[Lone Star]

The EU rejects democracy. Countries in that union lose their autonomy and liberty to protect their citizens and do what's best for them. Those countries are at the mercy of a bureaucracy that is disinterested in what is best for each country.

That, as I understand it, is why BREXIT began and continues to be a topic that is stirring some upheaval among other European nations. To me, the idea that the UK can't exist and be successful as an independent country and international trader is preposterous.

[vincemunday]

Although we campaigned on a basis of hard Brexit as they are now calling it we were given a choice of either fully out or fully in, there was no wishy washy in between, this has reared it's ugly head due to the hierarchy trying to protect the gravy train that so many career politicians have found themselves on. All said and done, as much as I and others would prefer it, it's unlikely we will leave without a deal, it's very much in the EU's interest to ensure we don't. If I were back in the UK I would be back on the campaign trail trying to get the Brexit we voted for but I fear it's too little too late.

[vincemunday]

Preposterous indeed LS, the EU is very much geared towards what's best for Northern Europe, most of the Southern members have been thrown to the wolves, particularly Greece who despite being "loaned" billions of Euros is still in dire straights, the more cynical among us might even believe they were lent the money to prevent contagion among German and French banks.

[GT93]

Interesting. I was reading it differently about soft and hard Brexit. I think it's in the EU's interest to clobber the UK as an example to others. I agree on your post how the EU is run.

I'm not in Lone Star's school of politics but I'd largely agree with his post. I'd have qualified the first sentence but that's nit picking.

[Lone Star]

Although we campaigned on a basis of hard Brexit as they are now calling it we were given a choice of either fully out or fully in, there was no wishy washy in between, this has reared it's ugly head due to the hierarchy trying to protect the gravy train that so many career politicians have found themselves on. All said and done, as much as I and others would prefer it, it's unlikely we will leave without a deal, it's very much in the EU's interest to ensure we don't. If I were back in the UK I would be back on the campaign trail trying to get the Brexit we voted for but I fear it's too little too late.

The socialist EU and some UK politicians are propagandizing to the citizens of the UK what socialists/globalists propose to everyone: create a victim mentality with the idea that survival is impossible without the state doing everything. I hate to see the UK get sucked back into that diabolical web of failure.

[vincemunday]

Once again you read it wrong and your assumption doesn't make sense, it's all about trade, it's 100% in their interest to ensure we deal together, without the UK market there's quite a few mainly Northern European industries that will go pop, it's unlikely a no deal Brexit will affect the UK in the same way.

Statistics on UK-EU trade - Parliament UK
PDFresearchbriefings.files.parliament.uk › C...

[GT93]

You don't need trade deals to trade. My country doesn't have a trade deal with the US or the EU as the price is too high for each country. That's cool. We still trade with each other.

The EU's first priority is to protect the EU breaking up. That's what is constraining them on trade and their bottom line in the negotiations. They're less sensitive to sector squealing because they're less democratic.

[vincemunday]

I can see im wasting my time, you just dont get it and most likely never will.

[GT93]

Up to you. I'm happy to kick the can around. If your opinion is widely accepted among experts, I'm interested in reading links.

It usually takes the EU ages to do anything. It's a mega bureaucracy. That alone is one reason Brexit was always going to be really difficult. The British government, even if functioning well, has in my opinion an almost impossible task.