Paedophile

[Khun Paul]

I was just glancing through the Bangkok Post today while eating luch in a well known hostelry, when I noticed a headline which mentioned Lao Girls and explotation.

Well I turned to one of the supplements and lo and behold there was an article written about Udon Thani with the Day and Night front shown in all its glory as well as photos of the other rather seedy sois which contain ( yes you guess right ) lao Girls.
The article then proceeded to explain in some detail about the migatory habits of these girls with the history behind such movement, it also highlighted the fact that many of these girls are of a tender age. These girls are there for one oprupose to make money to send to their familes.

While one does not critise that laudable objective the fact that a certain named Socail Security/Service personnel from udon Thani was quoted makes one actually wonder what planet they are on.

Having just given a histopry lesson and the also stated that these girls are certainly and in many cases under age in a national paper read by go knows how many people. I would not be very surprised if the men who are inclined to chase after and get some pleasures of the flesh , from young ladies will soon start descending on Udon Thani in droves to avail themselves of these lao girls.

it does make me wonder if the intention was to highlight their plight or to increase their money making activities.

many of us who have lived here for a few years are only too well aware of these places and avoid them like the plague, but there are some who do visit, but that is their business.

So lets watch out for all the Paedophiles and the like to descend on Udon Thani.

[beer monkey]

Best Get The Udon Home Guard with bayonets Fixed At The Ready For The Coach loads of Pervs that will be heading up all possible Routes as we type and read.

Keep em peeled...

[nkstan]

I certainly agree with your assessment KP!Is it just stupidity or is there a undistinquished motive behind this type of article?
There is no doubt in my mind that the pervs will be coming!IT WOULD BE GREAT IF IT WAS A TRAP TO CAPTURE SOME!!

[jackspratt]

An alternative view is that an article like this may have the effect of scaring off potential visitors to Soi 2, based on a fear of more attention from the authorities.

From anecdotal evidence, it would seem that confirmed "foreign" pedophiles appear to have their own well developed networks, and are thus likely to be well informed about wherever child prostitution exists - even in Udon Thani (if that is the case).

I would also hazard a guess that the ratio of Thai to farang male "visitors" to Udon Thani's brothels would be heavily weighted towards the former.

I wonder if part 2 of the Bangkok Post exposé will focus on Nong Khai?

[jackspratt]

I omitted to provide a link for the article to which KP alludes - which if you read, is all about Lao (and child) prostitution, and little about pedophiles.


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[BobHelm]

Thanks for the link Jack, an interesting read.
I find it fascinating how the setting up of these brothels was by women from the North of Thailand wishing to be prostitutes & once that was no longer a possibility it was replaced by Laos women...Surprising that so many engaged in the 'game' in the tourist areas seem to come from Issan & yet no Issan women ever engaged in it at home...
I also find it interesting that Khun Peerawit claims about Laos child prostitution do not seem to have been backed up by any physical evidence he provided on this visit - rather the opposite. While I am not naive enough to believe that it does not happen I also think that the piece has been rather sensationalised in its claims for 'viewing figure' purposes.

[747man]

An alternative view is that an article like this may have the effect of scaring off potential visitors to Soi 2, based on a fear of more attention from the authorities.

From anecdotal evidence, it would seem that confirmed "foreign" pedophiles appear to have their own well developed networks, and are thus likely to be well informed about wherever child prostitution exists - even in Udon Thani (if that is the case).

I would also hazard a guess that the ratio of Thai to farang male "visitors" to Udon Thani's brothels would be heavily weighted towards the former.

I wonder if part 2 of the Bangkok Post exposé will focus on Nong Khai?

Thinking about it Jack, Have noticed a SIGNIFICANT number of "New Farangs "in NK Over the past couple of months....

[747man]

Best Get The Udon Home Guard with bayonets Fixed At The Ready For The Coach loads of Pervs that will be heading up all possible Routes as we type and read.

Keep em peeled...

Most approaching from Highway 2 from the South......

[pompui]

An alternative view is that an article like this may have the effect of scaring off potential visitors to Soi 2, based on a fear of more attention from the authorities.

From anecdotal evidence, it would seem that confirmed "foreign" pedophiles appear to have their own well developed networks, and are thus likely to be well informed about wherever child prostitution exists - even in Udon Thani (if that is the case).

I would also hazard a guess that the ratio of Thai to farang male "visitors" to Udon Thani's brothels would be heavily weighted towards the former.

I wonder if part 2 of the Bangkok Post exposé will focus on Nong Khai?

Thinking about it Jack, Have noticed a SIGNIFICANT number of "New Farangs "in NK Over the past couple of months....

Nah,just the Tourist Visa is due to have a fee again in early March so they may as well 'stack 'n pack' the farang in NK.Am sure after mid march you will have NK back to its peaceful bliss again.

[tutone]

I thought the article cast an unnecessarily bad light on Udon and the "falangs" here. If Udon is awash in foreign tourists and entertainment zones as the article stated, then places like Pattaya, and Patong must be drowning. If there is a child sex problem here it isn't obvious to me. I like Udon because it is tame compared to many other places in Thailand, and I don't want others having a negative image of this city and coming here with the wrong impression. I think the article was sensationalist and only serves to reinforce some negative stereotypes about Thailand. Why pick on Udon? I wonder, too, if these particular type of brothels are frequented primarily by Thai men rather than Falangs.

[Khun Paul]

Why pick on Udon? I wonder, too, if these particular type of brothels are frequented primarily by Thai men rather than Falangs. ( quote from Tutone)

Unfortunately, Udon has had to deal with this for a number of years, it is just that this negative report will I am sure ensure those that like this source of enlightenment and enjoy the scene will I am sure be booking their train tickets or cars for a visit.
it is only on planes can they be monitored, any other form of transport requires no info at all.
maybe I am being alarmist but I do feel that as with many friends both Thai and farangs i have spoken too, they were not at all happy on the slant of the story and hope that it will be a storm in a tea-cup as it where. But I really feel that is optimism at its best.

[Brian Davis]

I thought the article cast an unnecessarily bad light on Udon and the "falangs" here. If Udon is awash in foreign tourists and entertainment zones as the article stated, then places like Pattaya, and Patong must be drowning.

Yes, I too immediately noticed that comment in the article and thought the writer was not really 'in touch' with Udon in that respect at least. IMO, Udon offers a nice balance in entertainment and if farangs are travelling here hoping it's anything like 'in your face' Pattaya or Patong, they're in for a surprise. Suggest you stay there guys!

[SanukJoe]

IMO, Udon offers a nice balance in entertainment

Although I agree with all posters here I am a bit surprised by the naivety.

Some say they know those "brothels" exist in Udon, Jack mentioned correctly IMO that Thais are frequenting those places more than farang do, most express a fear that farang choose Udon above Pattaya or Patong...

Come on guys, those "brothels" exist in Pattaya and Patong too, they are everywhere in Thailand, even in rural areas.
So there is no reason for any farang to come to Udon for that purpose.

Now some call the places "brothels". Why? What is the difference between these places and girlie bars with take away service? Nothing, except in taking away the girl to your place instead of having short time in a specially provided room.
So I would rather call those "brothels" Thai girlie bars and of course they exist in Udon, but also in rural Isaan like near my village. There is a Karaoke bar with Lao women just 10 km from my place, been there a couple of times to have a beer (I don't sing ) and 30 km towards Udon there is a Thai girlie bar with Vietnamese women where I have been once in company of Thai friends. Both places offer the same as girlie bars in Udon except you don't have to go home with a girl, you can express your needs in that place and they have provided private VIP rooms as they call it.

Now don't get me wrong: I'm not talking about underage girls working there. I have not seen them in the two places mentioned and I have not visited those Udon bars. Knowing that Thai men love to see young girls it is no wonder that underage girls are working in such places. It could also mean any farang entering such place would be more or less kindly requested to leave as they (Thai men) want the girls for themselves.
So IMO any farang paedophile thinking of frequenting those places will find out it was a wrong thinking.

Joe

[Brian Davis]

No, you’ve got me wrong there SanukJoe, but perhaps my fault for drifting off topic.

I was using ‘entertainment’ generally in that I’m aware that Udon offers everything from girlie bars, ‘normal’ bars, cocktail lounges, massage, live music venues, many farang and Thai restaurants, karaoke, bowling, cineplex etc. And I’m more than aware that includes out and out brothels too! Yes, one would have to very naive to believe that it’s difficult not to buy a woman here. The point I was trying to make is that Udon is far from the very obvious sex venues of Pattaya and Soi Bangla, Patong. If it sums it up, I’ve yet to have any girl in Udon rush out of a bar and openly, unashamedly grab my p****k!

I agree entirely with you on the existence of brothels, as opposed to girlie bars, more or less everywhere and that they are used by Thai more than farang. Very cheap and (not so) cheerful they are, often tin shacks much, I think, as described in the article. Police inevitably on the take, run by pimps or mama-sans. I heard that buses of Laos girls are often ‘waved through’ on the Friendship Bridge.

The topic started about the article suggesting Udon may attract paedophiles, because of the availability of under-age girls (I THINK that means under 15 years) from Laos. It can be, of course, very difficult to tell the age. But isn’t it a point that, part of a paedophile’s ‘kick’ is from being with somebody who actually is/looks a child, rather than an adult?

For what it’s worth, a few years back, I ended up in Soi 7/8 with two visiting friends. There were some stunning young women, probably from Laos, but here and anywhere else I’ve visited, I’ve never seen any who I thought less than upper-teens.

[Khun Paul]

I think some are missing the point, we are NOT talking about the establishments here one can walk in and out at will, they do and have girls who are legal in every sense of the word, open to inspection by many, we are talking about those who have a closed door policy, you have to knock to gain entrance and that is granted only if you are acceptable .

it is these establishments who have the illegal ages of the young ladies from the neighbouring country. Most farangs do not know or probably don't ask where this is, so I will not enlighten you but they do exist, mums and dads, bring their young daughters across the border, leave them here and come back every two or three weeks to collect the cash. STD's are high including HIV , so I do not think those are in existence near a local village, but I may be wrong. These places are normally in an area where the controller ( people in authority) of the area can keep a beady eye on it . A few years ago as I have already stated a few were closed down due to a change in Senior management, now it appears to be re-emerging again.

This is the area where our Paedos will be drawn too.

How you may ask do I know, well a few years ago a good friend of mine with a couple of us went to looksee. We sat outside in a road side watering hole and watched, quite interesting, but the advice given to us then applies today. Look don't touch , never enter and never never go there alone. To date I have followed that advice, some I know have not and spent some time in a hospital for their enjoyment, one person I know is currently wonndering how long he has to live ( HIV ) these are people I either hear of or who tell me, others I do not know. But as I said those that know avoid it like the plague.

Hope that clarifies the situation, we are not taliing about the Bars or the overt places of sexual gratification rather the hidden dark world of it.

[nkstan]

I doubt if there was an overt attempt to single Udon out as a place with ''underage prostitutes''!I am thinking the investigator picked Udon because of the legal traveling rights that Lao's have when crossing over the border and it being the largest town in the realm and he probably took an ''educated'' stab at checking out the Lao ''girls'' situation!

[Khun Paul]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I got the impression that this person had been working as a so-called Social services bod assisting and helping the girls in their environment for some time he is a Govt employee.

This report was complied to highlight the situation, I no longer have the article and I am going by memory only, but thatis why I originally posted as it seems that the the very person who is supposed to be helping has done a wonderful job in promoting their availability. If I am wrong I apologise but that was the impression I got.
Notwithstanding that, Udon could well do without the punters who seek that , as it is becoming a family town not a girlie town.

[Brian Davis]

You can call up the article easily enough on the Bangkok Post website.

The article is said to be the first in a two-part series. The author is not the researcher, but the latter IS a ‘social welfare worker’ looking into the trafficking of underage Lao girls into prostitution (8 years research to date!).

I need to correct myself on two comments from earlier posts. The researcher was born in Udon and SHOULD be in touch with things-Udon. Although I still can’t agree with the view that here is ‘awash with foreign tourists’. Secondly, the article confirms that the International Labour Organisation defines under 18 years as a child. I’m not sure if that’s the same in Thai Law, where prostitution is officially, at least, illegal. But this is Thailand and I need hardly elaborate on that, other than to say it must be one of the most abused, under-enforced laws ever. I’m NOT arguing for or against here legalisation here.

I must acknowledge Khun Paul for pointing out just the kind of venues involved here. Not too many of us are, I imagine, familiar with this ‘darker’ side. It’s been years since I was in that particular area of Udon and my recollection was, although seedy and scruffy, that it was ‘open’. I didn’t recall closed doors and heavies, but perhaps I wasn’t looking too closely. I’ve no intention of taking a look now and certainly not at night. Whilst these places may be less prominent to farang, there are seemingly quite common in Thailand and I think it’s to be expected that Udon as a major hub close to Laos, will have more than an average share.

Excuse me if I’m stating the obvious. But there is a massive difference between girls (and maybe boys) who have reached an age when they are deemed to be responsible enough to enter/leave this direction by free choice (accepting the everyday pressures of earning money here) and children forced/sold into it with little chance of escape.

The article may, indeed, catch the attention of paedos. I’d actually like to think that it would draw the attention of welfare agencies here, which if capable of avoiding corruption and having some clout, would start to make some noise.

Personally, in a town I rather like and where I’ve made my home, I find it disturbing that underage activities (just how young might the kids be?) can apparently be going on within a stroll of where many enjoy socialising normally. Of course, officialdom is either directly involved, or getting a slice to turn a blind eye. As a farang, perhaps unwise to ‘raise your head too high above the barricades’. A gentle nudge to 'shut it', or perhaps more forceful into the klong.

[SanukJoe]

Brian I agree with your post but would like to add some things.

Being a social worker in that area is not an easy job or even an impossible job. The article states that in one establishment visited out of 31 girls about 7 were under age. The guy knows it but can't do anything obviously.

The article also quotes two interviewed girls in saying that they were not forced to work there, it was their free will and as such they are not different from girls working in "regular" bars. They also stated that during the day they are allowed to go out and do what they want, so the impression is that they are not locked in or pressed to stay in the establishment.

You changed under age from under 15 to under 18. Officially, according to the law any person under the age of 18 is a minor and thus relationships or sexual contacts with them are forbidden to adults.
I agree with anyone who says child-abuse or child-prostitution involves children in their early teens or even earlier. There is IMO no definition of child age other than the legal under-18.

Your concern about under age activities in Udon is correct, only the problem is much bigger. I mean the family circumstances where some/quite some/many girls are sexually abused/raped by father/uncle/brother.... I know several of those stories from my own area and I can only guess that problem being bigger in Udon.
It's a sick part of Thai society and because everybody shuts their mouth it will never change.

Joe

[hangsaboot]

I certainly agree with your assessment KP!Is it just stupidity or is there a undistinguished motive behind this type of article?

Sensational attention seeking journalism sells newspapers, or maybe the tourist authority wants to attract more visitors to Udon?

To quote Shakespeare, IT'S A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS