Future energy sources?

[Whistler]

What seems obvious in all of these arguments is that many figures are variable. An EV battery can be under 300kg in some cars or over 1000kgs on another. The amount of ore needed to produce cobalt or cooper etc dependents on the yield be it 2% or 7% etc.

Posters choose a figure that suits their predisposition and exaggeration or cherrypicking is rampant. Add this to outright misinformation and truth has become a rare commodity

[AlexO]

So called cherry-picking tends to happen on both sides of an argument, why is your side undeniably accurate and everyone with a different view is showing signs of knowing Sod All or just having NFI.
The main argument is no matter what, claims of renewable or clean energy production being clean, it's not it has a massive carbon footprint that seems to be conveniently ignored on the alter of Climate Change.

[tamada]

What seems obvious in all of these arguments is that many figures are variable. An EV battery can be under 300kg in some cars or over 1000kgs on another. The amount of ore needed to produce cobalt or cooper etc dependents on the yield be it 2% or 7% etc.

Posters choose a figure that suits their predisposition and exaggeration or cherrypicking is rampant. Add this to outright misinformation and truth has become a rare commodity

Ignoring the possibility of exaggerated or erroneous numbers, the fundamental message is unchanged.

The suggestion that an EV contributes to the zero-emissions goal is absolutely not true. The electricity produced comes from power plants that are mostly still burning gas, oil or coal.

The burgeoning output of bigger and better solar power panels requires increasing amounts of dangerous chemicals.

The many minerals, including rare earth elements, that are needed in increasing quantities require more sophisticated methods than impoverished kids in Africa (remember that meme?) digging with bare hands. Solar-powered tunneling, boring and drilling equipment, if it existed, wouldn't work underground. Something to do with the sun.

In order to make larger and more efficient wind turbines, increased quantities of fossil-fueled energy are needed.

"Going Green" may seem like a utopian ideal, but if you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically and unbiased, you will find that "Going Green" today does more damage to the Earth's environment than meets the eye.

[Whistler]

Your opinion Tam, one that I do agree with. And I am not the only one.

[jackspratt]

"Going Green" may seem like a utopian ideal, but if you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically and unbiased, you will find that "Going Green" today does more damage to the Earth's environment than meets the eye.

All fine and good, but the real question is "is going green doing more harm than maintaining the status quo with fossil fuels"?

Thangs are pretty farked, and will only get even more farked without some radical action, including the rapid phasing out of dirty fossil fuels, and the measured phasing out of less destructive fossil fuels.

[tamada]

"Going Green" may seem like a utopian ideal, but if you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically and unbiased, you will find that "Going Green" today does more damage to the Earth's environment than meets the eye.

All fine and good, but the real question is "is going green doing more harm than maintaining the status quo with fossil fuels"?

Thangs are pretty farked, and will only get even more farked without some radical action, including the rapid phasing out of dirty fossil fuels, and the measured phasing out of less destructive fossil fuels.

Radical and rapid phasing out cannot happen. It's impossible without confining many developing nations to the literal dark ages.

The Aussie greens want total fossil fuel phase-out by 2030. They are upset because the government has just given their nod to five, previously stalled exploration seismic surveys for gas. They are also approving seismic surveys for Carbon Capture and Sequestration. The Aussie greens call CCS a "failed experiment" which is a bit silly since AFAIK, there's only ever been two or three such surveys in Australian waters. Like exploration seismic where you don't find and produce oil within a few months or even years, CCS seismic needs to be evaluated before you lay a pipeline and pump in any "bad" gas.

[pipoz4444]

I work in a industry reliant on the use of heavy plant and equipment.

And none of it is going electric, solar, wind or water powered, in the foreseeable future and I mean not in the next 20 years

pipoz4444

[Barney]

A new solar farm project, Escape Solar Project, has just been awarded and to start in Nevada USA, not a small project. 389,000 solar panels on 900 acres producing 185Mw ac.

Thats a lot of land and no mention of the environmental impact and power lines to install. I'm sure all the studies have been submitted and paid for.

[rick]

Shipping is one area which is slow to look at alternatives. Nearly all ships run on oil. There are 110,000 ships in the international shipping fleet or currently building, but less than 100 use wind assisted technology. One recent ship has shown fuel savings of 3 tons of oil per day, using 2 sails. That is about 20 barrels of oil. If all ships adopted wind assist technology, that could save 2 million barrels per day. With more sails, savings could be greater.
If this was done, it would save enough fuel to run the worlds aviation industry (my own calculation based on limited statistics).

[tamada]

Shipping is one area which is slow to look at alternatives. Nearly all ships run on oil. There are 110,000 ships in the international shipping fleet or currently building, but less than 100 use wind assisted technology. One recent ship has shown fuel savings of 3 tons of oil per day, using 2 sails. That is about 20 barrels of oil. If all ships adopted wind assist technology, that could save 2 million barrels per day. With more sails, savings could be greater.
If this was done, it would save enough fuel to run the worlds aviation industry (my own calculation based on limited statistics).

Then there are "light airs" and "calm".

Don't get me started on the Doldrums.

[jackspratt]

..... but less than 100 use wind assisted technology. .....

This is the bit that I noticed - implying I guess that you weren't suggesting wind only powered ships of international trade.

[AlexO]

..... but less than 100 use wind assisted technology. .....

This is the bit that I noticed - implying I guess that you weren't suggesting wind only powered ships of international trade.

Why not, and solar panels as well. Good enough for a Continent surly must be good for a ship. Have batteries when the sun doesn't shine and its doldrums or stormy. Must be the way to go.

[tamada]

In other news, sensible people in some governments are intent on repealing the ill-advised decision of a previous administration to put all their nation's eggs in the renewables basket.

Traffic is expected to build on the Australian Bypass.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodi ... 024-08-26/

[Barney]

The kiwis can buy the Aussie LNG, half their population relies on construction jobs in Aussie.
Pluto 2 will come online on time and the new NTLNG project in Darwin will start construction soon enough.
Gas isn't slowing down any time soon.

[tamada]

The kiwis can buy the Aussie LNG, half their population relies on construction jobs in Aussie.
Pluto 2 will come online on time and the new NTLNG project in Darwin will start construction soon enough.
Gas isn't slowing down any time soon.

Despite the challenges to Scarborough, Pluto 2 should be on time but is Darwin's revitalisation a done deal yet Bonaparte's once bright future is shaded by some overseas investors sitting on their hands while the Aussie government flips and flops.

Back in New Zealand, there was a nice little gas development off Canterbury and Gisborne, solely to fulfill domestic needs, where investment and planning was progressing nicely before Jacinda shat the bed.

[Barney]

The kiwis can buy the Aussie LNG, half their population relies on construction jobs in Aussie.
Pluto 2 will come online on time and the new NTLNG project in Darwin will start construction soon enough.
Gas isn't slowing down any time soon.

Despite the challenges to Scarborough, Pluto 2 should be on time but is Darwin's revitalisation a done deal yet Bonaparte's once bright future is shaded by some overseas investors sitting on their hands while the Aussie government flips and flops.

Back in New Zealand, there was a nice little gas development off Canterbury and Gisborne, solely to fulfill domestic needs, where investment and planning was progressing nicely before Jacinda shat the bed.

The EPC contractor has been chosen for Darwin and the Pre Feed underway. Gas by 2030 is planned according to my reliable source.

With Jacinta in the bin NZ might move forward at a good pace.

[tamada]

Australia has approved a new 4.300km long Australia-Asia power link project to export electricity towards Singapore. The project would be the world's biggest renewable energy and battery storage facility. It aims at decarbonising Australia's energy exports and Singapore's energy mix.

The Australian Labor government has just greenlighted one of the world's largest infrastructures aimed at accelerating the energy transition. According to SubCable, the project's developer, the Australia-Asia PowerLink (AAPowerLink) consists of 17-20 GW capacity giant solar park plus a battery storage complex in the Australia's Northern Territory of around 36-42 GWh of capacity that will allow, together, a continuous flow of green electricity exports from Australia to Singapore in the amount of nearly 6 GW.

This is really a "once in a generation scale" infrastructure. The AAPowerLink includes a 800km power connection from Powell Creek to Darwin, on the Northern coast of Australia, and from there a 4,300 km undersea power cable to Singapore. The project's cost is around $13.5 billion, a huge price tag and a final investment decision is expected for 2027. Electricity supplies should begin by the early 2030s. According to Australia's Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek, the project will help to secure low-carbon electricity to both Australia and Singapore, creating a new Asian energy interdependency.

[tamada]

Can anyone assist with what's at (or going to be at) Powell Creek? Google isn't coming up with anything related to a battery or even a light switch.

https://northernterritory.com/tennant-c ... ph-station

[jackspratt]

https://www.suncable.energy/our-projects#DarwinLink

[tamada]

Ok, dug a bit deeper and here it is (maybe).

https://www.accordelectrical.com.au/202 ... singapore/