Engine over haul dine help!!!!!!!!

Post by **bumper** » June 6, 2012, 10:55 am

Not a ping to be found. Mechanic ran it up 120 not a good diea considering it didn't have KLM on it.

Here is the problem runs hotter then it ever has and only firing on one pistion, Got fire to the spark plugs.

This is the first time I have ever seen the heat light and oil light on except when starting.

Ok what comes to mind for me is timing. Because of the excess heat, cylnder not firing correctly.

I made sure this time no water inlets were blocked by cylicone and had the clyners hones so the clearance is perfect, between it abd the pistion's

Why timing, First mechanic really screwed things up, which led to the rebuild. I don't think he sit the timing and the guys who rebuilt just put back the way they got it.

Make any logic?

Post by **akwoodworker** » June 6, 2012, 11:01 am

check the firing order of the plug wires

Post by **bumper** » June 6, 2012, 11:25 am

Good Idea

Post by **bumper** » June 6, 2012, 3:34 pm

Can't do it, the wires ae too short. Interstingly enough, yuo can pull one plug off and then the other, it runs the same.

So it does fire on both cylnders

Post by **pmc** » June 7, 2012, 5:39 am

gday bumper.
a couple of things mate what type of car? if motor rebuilt recently . possiable causes
blocked radiator was it cleaned and flushed correctly? check for water deposits in the engine oil
via dipstick, was cyl head machined at the time of rebuilt? if not possiable head gskt leak
also head bolt tensions and in the right order . i hope this helps
cheer paul.

Post by **bluejets** » June 7, 2012, 9:45 am

Just wondering how they managed to get it up to 120 firing on one pot...???

I'd go with pmc and say head problem. Maybe gasket (hard to imagine on new rebuild)or, if engine has been so hot for so many times, then head is warped or cracked and buggered. If warped and an o'head cam then shaving head is not an option as the cam is then mis-aligned.

In days gone by, a peek in the radiator after filling completely to the neck, would show air bubbles as the engine was run showing a crack or head gasket problem. These days a simple chemicle added to the water in the radiator changes color if any gasses from the combustion chamber are present indicating head problem.

Post by **Aardvark** » June 7, 2012, 9:53 am

It's a Motorbike I think from memory ??? Found it, try here ... http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/h ... 24827.html

Post by **bluejets** » June 7, 2012, 9:56 am

bumper wrote:Can't do it, the wires ae too short. Interstingly enough, yuo can pull one plug off and then the other, it runs the same.

That would be expected if it wasn't running correctly to start with. If the engine has a distributor then the wiring could still be crossed at that end.

Post by **pmc** » June 7, 2012, 10:14 am

cyl heads should be cracked tested before reassembling saves all the time and heartache when assemble
atleast you know it has been done and one less thing to look for when things go a miss.
is the car lpg/petrol or straight petrol?
cheers. paul

Post by **bumper** » June 7, 2012, 7:05 pm

Thanks guys 800CC Kawasaki Vulcan, sorry about that. Wasn't ran that hot but the one time after the rebuild, by the last mechanic. Took it to the Harley shop today. The engine other then the miss sounds perfect. No metal metal noise at all.

We got most of the mess cleared up form the first guy who screwed it up. But there is somthing different still wrong. Hard to tell what the first idiot did, As far as he was concerned it was perfect. Got the same song and dance from the second mechanic.

I'm still leaning towards timing.

I'll say one thing for the Harley guy, he didn't think his mechanic could handle it and said so. Now that's different, usually it's anyhting for a baht. Some good Diagnaotic equipment and this would be over. He referred me to the old man across from the university I have used him in the past, he could pull off miracles. He used to work on a really ancient 750 I restored. Been so long since I had this kind of mess to deal with I just forgot about him.

The 120 I wasn't on the bike, so who knows.

An interesting side note I went by the Kawaskai guy, beautiful sevice center. He wouldn't work on the 800. At least they will provide financing on the 900 as all the other dealers were. So that's progress.

Whatever the first guy did it's tricky, Take the wire of one spark plug runs the same way. Do the same thing to the other plug same thing. Water pump is working OK I'm told ( Harley)

With everything working OK other then a miss and the heat, really sounds like timing to me.

I have a lead on a good mechaninic in Surin, the other option is to mail it to Dr. Bike in Bangkok. If Dr Bike will pick it up at the Post Office then I'm leaning towards that

The actuall rebuild seems fine.

To bad we really don't have a mecahnic here in Udon wiith good equipment, to check these kinds of things out.

Remember this, the first mechanic is lucky I didn't do what I was thinking of, Blood sweat and tears went into the first rebuild. It was running fine, till numb nuts got his hands on it, to fix a oil leak.

Post by **maaka** » June 8, 2012, 3:17 am

does your bike have a V.O.E.S ?? a Vaccum Operated Electric Switch which operates the computerised ignition module system..If this is faulty it will cause the engine to overheat, as the VOES advances, or retards the spark automatically as speed increases, or slows..check the vaccum hoses to the carburettor..also the VOES should be aligned with Top Dead Center, so if the timing is out, the VOES is out...if a bike's timing is out you should be able to hear it...I would check the ignition system, ( VOES, coil, regulator, sensor plate, microprocessor )..

only other thing that it could be in my opinion, is that you have a leaking value..a compression test should sort that out..

one last thing, just check your airfilter..

Post by **bluejets** » June 8, 2012, 9:08 am

Difficult to get the mechanical part of timing wrong on a vulcan ( or many other bikes) Pickup is a fixture and the magnet is in the rotor which is keyed to the shaft. Micros usually take care of the timing from input sensors. As makka says, there could be a vacuum switch creating an advance problem but also there are many other sensors that couple to the Engine Control Unit that could be faulty, maybe even disconnected.
(ball bearings in vacuum lines from faulty sensors etc.)

I had a call to a 250 twin many years ago with misfiring and no "pulling power" and after much head scratching I found someone had been at the pick-up and re-installed it backwards. The effect was to not only change the initial reference pulse and thus the whole timing range, but also the signal was very weak from the sensor being now a long way from the magnet face.

Also the symptoms could point to valve timing being one tooth out. Not difficult to do when re-assembling and not be aware of it. If there was enough room for piston and valve for the valve timing to be incorrect that is, otherwise you may have disasterous results.

I think it is about time for you to find someone in Bkk with service experience for Vulcans otherwise you may end up in more trouble. Very difficult to diagnose engine problems over a forum, too many "missed" or "interpreted" symptoms.

Post by **bumper** » June 8, 2012, 9:26 am

No VOE's A very good possiblity of something electrical.

The old guy doesn't get it. It headed to the Post Office and Mr. Bike if he will pick it up at the Post Office.

I'm wondering if the bike is struggling thus overheating. No matter which sprark plug you disconnest runs the same way.

It's something odd ball the first guy did and lord knows what that was and the second guy miasseed. The second guy just fixed the obvious. From all that I can tell that part the second guy did is OK. I learned very quickly he will not tAke responsiblity for anything. So no need in asking I wonlt get a straight answer.

Right now I'm down to the last shop I have trust in.

Post by **bumper** » June 8, 2012, 9:40 am

Stevo if your following this give me a PM please

Post by **bumper** » June 24, 2012, 6:47 pm

Well to share what I learned in this process. The overheating were caused by he mechanic failing to adjust the valves properly. Once adjusted cooled right down.

The crazy electric problem the engine ground wire, and failing to use proper connectors on the battery. added a new engine ground wire form the started to the negative of the battery. The negative poll had an improper bolt and nut on it, put a proper nut and bolt on it and my engine was no longer missing. One last tweak to be done rebuild the carb. Working on that now.

Simple stuff really but, it can drive you crazy. Hope this becomes of some help to someone in the future.

Post by **maaka** » June 25, 2012, 3:10 am

good to see you got it sorted Bumper..

Post by **bumper** » June 25, 2012, 8:49 am

It was intersting I have the shop manual, really didn't help much. I just kept asking questions adn using Google, Found
guys wuth the same kind of problems and how thye solved them. Not being a mechanic it can get real interesting. The mechaincs I took it to kept saying it wa fine. Can't blame them they really never know what it was like when it is right.

The old man at Jimmies found the valve adjustment, After five said no porblem.

Post by **bumper** » June 30, 2012, 3:54 pm

Well I spoke to soon things didn't work out. So I bought a used engine from Japan for 34 K should get it next week. A little paperwork adn the bike will be stay a legal bike. Jimmie hgad the bike for two days went throuhg the timing and did the carburator.

Had an intersting twist yesterday the Jimmie went through the timing and carb. Runs about the same. However the battery was low. Left at the farm last night. Took the charger out there and the most it would accept was 3 amps with the battery charger at max. This would normally mean to me the battery is shot and it maybe. But, it's the second one in six months. Makes me wonder about the rectifier.

I have three day before the engine delivery so I'm going to take it back to the shop Monday and check out a different rectifier on it and see what happens. I will also try new coils. I won't be buying these. We managed to test one coil and it was OK, so one more to go. Rectifier we didn't have the equipment. Might as well take a hail mary pass at it. Got the time and it won't cost anything unless I find a bad part if you so. I won't install the back up engine.

If we put the new engine in and have the same problems I will know is in the electric system. I will still have my backup engine no matter what. The replacement engine cost 10K more then the pistons, rings and valves cost.

Post by **maaka** » June 30, 2012, 4:40 pm

when I first saw your thread, I thought wow thats the same as what happened to my Harley years back..engine got hot for no reason, then riding along the bike sputters to a stop and you cant start for ages, and then when you do, it goes for a while and stops again..I eat thru the batteries before I found out it was the rectifier, just a small cube like thing, which your electrics plugs into and your battery lead..bought another one and things were sweet, now I have two rectifiers on my bike, one as a spare, just in case the same thing happens again when I am in the middle of nowhere...sorry I couldnt remember the word ' rectifier ' before in my early reply, but put you onto checking your electrics anyway...

I remember John Britten who designed and built the ' Britten ' motorbike, almost won Daytona over Ducati on his first attempt, but for the bike to cut out just before the finish line because of the rectifier..

Hope you get it sorted..At least you will know your bike after all this..

Post by **bluejets** » June 30, 2012, 5:17 pm

bumper wrote:Had an intersting twist yesterday the Jimmie went through the timing and carb. Runs about the same. However the battery was low. Left at the farm last night. Took the charger out there and the most it would accept was 3 amps with the battery charger at max. This would normally mean to me the battery is shot and it maybe. But, it's the second one in six months. Makes me wonder about the rectifier.

Means nothing. It depends on the charger you were using as to what will be the maximum charge rate.
How did you determine battery was "low"....??
Does that mean electrolyte level or charge level...??
Only way to determine battery state is a specific load test and/or specific gravity test. (hydrometer)
Not difficult to test charge rate /voltage while the engine is running to verify charge circuit operating or not.

I have a feeling you are almost at the point where you will be lifting up the bike and rolling another one in underneath to fix your problems.