PAD supporter killed in Udon Thani

[westerby]

Chavalit Yongchaiyudh. I think he was looking for a coalition of all parties perhaps along the lines of the National government in late 1920s Britain that comprised Labour, Conservatives and the Liberals.

This is what I initially understood by what you said yesterday but then I realised I had dug myself a big hole by stating that Samak ran a majority Govt.

I've seen Chavalit on TV for a few years now but what was his history prior to the 1990s?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

NAME : General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh
DATE OF BIRTH : 15 May 1932
MARITAL STATUS : Married to Khunying Phankrua Yongchaiyudh
EDUCATION :
1953 Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy
1963 Command and General Staff College,
Royal Thai Army
1964 Army Command and General Staff College, Fort Leavenworth, USA
MILITARY ASSIGNMENTS :
1981 Director of Operations, Royal Thai Army
1982 Assistant Chief of Staff for Operations,
Royal Thai Army
1983 Deputy Commander-in-Chief,
Royal Thai Army
1985 Chief of Staff, Royal Thai Army
1986 Commander-in-Chief, Royal Thai Army
1987-1990 Commander-in-Chief, Royal Thai Army
and Acting Supreme Commander
POLITICAL POSITIONS :
30 Mar - 21 June 1990 Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence
15 May-12 Sep 1992 Opposition Leader
29 Sep 1992-11 Dec 1994 Minister of Interior
23 Sep 1993-7 Jan 1994 Minister of Labour and Social Welfare
14 July - 25 Oct 1994 Deputy Prime Minister
17 July 1995-25 Nov 1996 Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Defence
25 Nov 1996-6 Nov 1997 Prime Minister and Minister of Defence

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Copyright © 1997, The Royal Thai Embassy,Washington, D.C., All rights reserved.

This is the best I can do now for it is almost time to play baseball again.

On the way, I can try and remember about the Brechin City - Dundee United match.

[Guns482]

Unfortunately for Thai's being a succesful miltary person does not make you a good politican, in fact the reverse is normally the way, as many ex military people try to run the country as if it was the army ,navy or air force. People are not soldiers and do not neccessarily do what you want. it is called freedom, unless of course you wish to start a dictatorship, then of course we have an even bigger problem.

[BKKSTAN]

It seems to me that it is almost impossible to have a ''clean election'' in Thailand!In the provinces,the rich families have all the power and the people treat them as patrons.
There is such a disparity in wealth between them and the populace,they can easily promise or withold favor to control the vote!

The family members are continiously elected, as long as they are seen as patrons!

The village heads are rewarded for maintaining and rallying the the village members to support them!

Everyone has to go to their village to vote versus registering and voting where they presently live!Which is another way of maintaining control and influence!

[westerby]

It seems to me that it is almost impossible to have a ''clean election'' in Thailand! In the provinces,the rich families have all the power and the people treat them as patrons.

Yeah, you're right but then there are rich families in the West that dominate politics.

The Kennedys

The Clintons

The Bush clan

The Churchills (and Lord Soames)

[BKKSTAN]

I don't believe it is comparable at all!In Thailand the patrons contiinously maintain power and control over the poor and ignorant with their power,class and favors!

The Kennedys have used their money and influence,I agree,but the voters are not as easily manipulated by class.

Bush and Clinton clans are temporary at best!

Churchill,I can not address!

But the fact that those with money and power,get elected is not the point!

The purposeful undereducating,blatant vote buying, maintaining of class seperation,lack of freedom of speech to criticize and challenge is!

All countries have some similar circumstances!But most that are recognized as ''Democratic''are not as blatant and completely corrupt on a personal level!

[Guns482]

Here I must interject, Churchill was voted in as he was
1 A very good orator
2, Although born into influence and power worked hard and became recognised and loved
3. never abused his power.
Doied loved by a nation and the owrld
How many US presidents can you say the same about.

[BobHelm]

Guns while I agree with your assessment of Churchill westerby still makes a valid point. If it hadn't been for his families wealth & long history of association with the political setup of UK it is doubtful if he would have ever found a political party who would have been willing to sponsor him a seat. He was seen by many within even his own party as a dangerous maverick. Without his families considerable influence it is doubtful if he would have even been in Parliament when the war started..

[westerby]

Yeah Bob, I agree with the things that Guns pointed out as well, but I was talking about the Churchill family. Winston's father was an MP, Winston's grandson was an MP and Lord Soames is also a member of the family.

Stan, I don't think the Bush clan are temporary, I reckon you'll see more of them in the future. But I think you may be right about the Clintons.

I think that class separatism exists in LOS, the US and the UK. Freedom of speech in the UK is not what it was. E.g., you can no longer demonstrate within 1-2 km of the Houses of Parliament (a law brought about by Bliar's administration).

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Do not forget Winston's father, Lord Randolph Churchill, who as Secretary of State for India promoted the annexation of Burma. I believe he died of a social disease. Winston's mother was American.

Lord Randolph was a bit of a loose cannon too, and make himself unpopular with a number of his colleagues. So when he threatened to resign his ministerial post over some issue (probably Ireland), the prime minister (Lord Salisbury) took the opportunity to let him go.

Winston wrote a biography of his father defending his position.

And one of Churchill's illustrious relatives was the great military hero, the Duke of Marlborough who won some famous battles, probably over the French.

Political parties liked Winston. He began as a Conservative, switched to the Liberal Party and with Lloyd George brought in welfare measures such as unemployment insurance and old age pensions. Then he switched back to the Conservatives. Clementine, his wife, remained a lifelong Liberal and was always loyal voter for the Liberals throughout her life.

Churchill was a man who was not afraid to make decisions some of which were very unpopular, and he was brilliant.

His name gave him connections for sure, but Lord Randolph was very unpopular at the end so Winston had to make his own way in politics and demonstrate that he had ability and talent to have an impact on British politics. One of us, and not me because I am very busy now, should go back and look at his early political career and see how he got started.

Winston Churchill, Palmerston, Disraeli, Peel, Curzon, Cromer, Dalhousie, Elizabeth I and William the Conqueror are the politicians that I admire the most. I know, I know, Sarit, Sukarno, Sihanouk are interesting too as is that great 15th century individual of Chiang Mai - Tilokarat.

[westerby]

1899 - Winston Churchill stood at Oldham by election for the Conservatives and lost.

1900 - Churchill won Oldham as a Conservative.

He opposed Govt. military expenditure and Chamberlain's trade tarriffs and was deselected by his constituency.

He crossed the floor in the Commons and became a Liberal.

He won Manchester North West for the Liberals in 1906.

Asquith appointed him to the Cabinet as President of the Board of Trade in 1908.

1911 became First Lord of the Admiralty.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Thanks.

[bumper]

Well looks to me like Mr. Samak has pulled off the gloves. Attacking and trying to amend article 63. Where we come from the ammendments are pretty much how things are dione, Except you can't say anything bad about anyone, The funny part of that is you can already sue people for saying bad things about you. If you can't complain why would you have a ralley in the first place. Ah yes permits, but who Ok's them. So it may sound similar but in reality will it be?

Special police assigned to investigate T shirts.

Celebration of the Royal family, I think that is wonderful. I would have felt much better about it if wasn't Mr. Samak's idea. anyone seee Le Majeste charges coming?

All ready talk of a new party if this one is disbanded. Mr Samak as I recall has his charges in front of the Surpreme court already.

Not pro or con anyone, Mai Chai Tura Pom (not my business) Bot, politics are interesting to watch here. I often wonder what our own Democracy were like 50 to 60 years out.

[bumper]

Poor Mr. Samak he just can't seem to win for losing even the DAAD opposed the move

Constitution amendment under fire
By The Nation
Published on August 7, 2008


Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej's proposal to amend Article 63 of the Constitution has been attacked by people who say the move would limit the public's basic rights and freedom to gather.


A bill to regulate rallies on public streets is due to be considered soon in Parliament, but public opposition appears to be getting fiercer. The bill was proposed by People Power Party MPs led by Sakon Nakhon's Jumpot Boonyai.


Critics say the bill is simply a government's strategy to attack their opponents in the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD).


The bill would require rally organisers to get permission from provincial committees or the Metropolitan Police chief before any rallies are staged. Government committees would be authorised to ban rallies from being held if they were deemed likely to inconvenience traffic or commuters.


The bill also proposes that in the event of committee orders being violated, police or other officials can disperse rallies without being subject to criminal or civil punishment.


Curiously, the origin of this bill was the military-appointed National Legislative Assembly. NLA member Police General Issaraphan Sanitvong na Ayutthaya, then deputy national police commissioner, proposed it first.


The only difference now is the PPP-proposed version includes a ban on rallies that obstruct traffic.


Previously, it was the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship, an anti-coup group, staging anti-government rallies. But the wheel has turned.


DAAD was led by former Thai Rak Thai Party MPs Veera Musigapong, Jatuporn Phromphan and Jakrapob Penkair. Jatuporn, Jakrapob and another DAAD official Natthawut Sai-kua later received positions in the People Power government.


The former proposal was strongly opposed by NLA members including Chamlong Srimuang, Gothom Arya, Kamnoon Sittisaman and Tuenjai Deetes, who said it was undemocratic. After three hours of debate, it was dropped without any further deliberation.


At the time, some DAAD members protested in front of the Parliament against the bill, saying it was aimed at attacking their group.


It shows that while both elected legislators and those appointed by coup-makers may want to limit people's rights and freedom to gather, the public will oppose such moves.

Jakrapob's assets


The National Counter-Corruption Commission has revealed the assets declaration by former PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair when he left the Cabinet.


Jakrapob had Bt200,000 less in assets compared to when he took the post.


One interesting item that he listed after taking the minister's post was a 9mm pistol. He requested permission to own the gun in April, two months after taking the post, saying he needed it to protect his life and possessions.

Kornchanok@nationgroup.com




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[Guns482]

Many fine points made there about not only Churchill and his forebears, but also others as well.
I do beliecve that Churchill cut his teeth in politics after the Boer war in which he was a War Correspondent, but I could be wrong.
His tome on the Histroyt og the english Speaking people made fascinating rading, unfortunately i left it in England for others to read, but it is certainly an eye opener and a must read for all americans.
Getting back to the local politics bit, the problem here is the weathy care not a hoot for the public and it shows that is what is so sad. The people suffer, the poor suffer and why. Answers please on a A4 piece of paper not less than 500 words thanks.

[westerby]

Here's the other side of democracy:

Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve.

George Bernard Shaw

[Guns482]

So true.

[UdonExpat]

The death in July is back in the news. Perhaps someone(s) will be held responsible. It seems that such things can happen without foul play, although it is suspected in this case.

Authorities face disciplinary probe over Udon Thani clashes


The police chief, the provincial governor and three senior officers from Udon Thani face a disciplinary probe after the National Anti-Corruption Commission said in a report Wednesday that it suspected foul play in the clash between red and yellow shirts last July.

The NACC has found cause to suspect serious violations involving provincial police chief MajGeneral Permsak Paradonsak, NACC member Klanarong Chantik said.

Udon Thani Governor Supoj Laowansiri, his assistant Yuthana Wiriyakitti and Permsak's two deputies, Colonel Pattrawut Uamsasithorn and Colonel Boonlue Kobangyang, are the others suspected of committing disciplinary offences, he said.

The Naiton

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakin ... -Udon-Than

[westerby]

Authorities face disciplinary probe over Udon Thani clashes.
The police chief, the provincial governor and three senior officers from Udon Thani face a disciplinary probe after the National Anti-Corruption Commission said in a report Wednesday that it suspected foul play in the clash between red and yellow shirts last July.

Yeah, I believe this one will be pursued and someone will be liable while the PAD Bangkok Government Buildings investigation will conveniently lose its way up the Swanny.