Israel and the West bank

[AlexO]

Even the BBC, the taxpayer funded non-biased source of supposedly accurate information is desperately trying to defend itself from accusations of false reporting. Just 15000 times not a couple.

A couple of small, though important corrections.

1. there is no accusation of "false reporting" that I can see in the report - it talks about bias, and breaching editorial guidelines.

2. it's 1,553, not 15000.

I can't see any signs of desperation in this statement in response from the BBC:

A spokesperson for the BBC questioned the report's methodology and said they would "carefully consider" the report's findings after reviewing it, in a statement to Fox News Digital.

"We have serious questions about the methodology of this report, particularly its heavy reliance on AI to analyze impartiality, and its interpretation of the BBC’s editorial guidelines. We don’t think coverage can be assessed solely by counting particular words divorced from context. We are required to achieve due impartiality, rather than the ‘balance of sympathy’ proposed in the report, and we believe our knowledgeable and dedicated correspondents are achieving this, despite the highly complex, challenging and polarizing nature of the conflict," the spokesperson said.

"However, we will consider the report carefully and respond directly to the authors once we have had time to study it in detail," the spokesperson added.

Must be using the Hamas Propaganda Departments habit of adding a 0 to all figures.
Due Impartiality, repeating every Hamas propaganda claim as evidence that Israel are the bad boys. Thats not impartiality in anybodys book.

[Doodoo]

"The UN chief calls the death and destruction in Gaza the worst he's seen

The U.N. chief said Monday that the United Nations has offered to monitor any cease-fire in Gaza and demanded an end to the worst death and destruction he has seen in his more than seven-year tenure."

A waste of time and money that the UN consumes each day. Big deal, "It's horrible the destruction and loss of life that continues everyday" Once again all words and no action from the UN.
7 year tenure and done NOTHING, some agency

[tamada]

"The UN chief calls the death and destruction in Gaza the worst he's seen

The U.N. chief said Monday that the United Nations has offered to monitor any cease-fire in Gaza and demanded an end to the worst death and destruction he has seen in his more than seven-year tenure."

A waste of time and money that the UN consumes each day. Big deal, "It's horrible the destruction and loss of life that continues everyday" Once again all words and no action from the UN.
7 year tenure and done NOTHING, some agency

Well said. I guess after seven years, ol' António is feeling his redundancy looming without leaving his mark.

[jackspratt]

"The UN chief calls the death and destruction in Gaza the worst he's seen

Did he make any comments about the situation on the West Bank?

[AlexO]

"The UN chief calls the death and destruction in Gaza the worst he's seen

The U.N. chief said Monday that the United Nations has offered to monitor any cease-fire in Gaza and demanded an end to the worst death and destruction he has seen in his more than seven-year tenure."

A waste of time and money that the UN consumes each day. Big deal, "It's horrible the destruction and loss of life that continues everyday" Once again all words and no action from the UN.
7 year tenure and done NOTHING, some agency

Always has been and always will be. The most useless talking shop in history.
Probably the only policy Trump came up with that I thought was semi clever.

[Whistler]

Is this thread going anywhere?

Hamas are murdering thugs killing hostages. Israeli right wingers and West bank illegal settlers are also killing and showing no restraint.

Both factions are evil. Neither can justify their actions by saying 'yes but'.

I believe that you overlooked the West Bank terrorists. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of ... affa_Ariel.

My view of the Westbank is different to yours. Notably the UN regards this is an illegal occupation of land, I go along with that view.

[Udon Map]

My view of the Westbank is different to yours. Notably the UN regards this is an illegal occupation of land, I go along with that view.

We can disagree on that, but murdering a child in her bed is, IMO, unacceptable regardless.

In any case, as I said above, Hamas picks and chooses those UN resolutions/actions with which it agrees, ignoring the rest and calling them illegal. Why should Israel be the only one playing by the rules?

[Whistler]

If Israel follows 'the rules' of international law, they can claim the high ground, I they debase themselves by reducing their behaviour to that of the very evil Hamas thugs, then Hamas wins. I am afraid in the past few months they have moved in that direction. The figures of 40,000 dead in Gaza seems credible as it is voiced by many independent bodies. Israel needs to back of a take a more nuanced approach to defend Hamas in Gaza. Netanyahu doesn't want that, the extreme hawks in the government seem to have zero appetite for changing what is a brutal and murderous occupation of Gaza. They are radicalising Palastinians that will lead to more terrorist and brutal attacks on their own people

[AlexO]

If Israel follows 'the rules' of international law, they can claim the high ground, I they debase themselves by reducing their behaviour to that of the very evil Hamas thugs, then Hamas wins. I am afraid in the past few months they have moved in that direction. The figures of 40,000 dead in Gaza seems credible as it is voiced by many independent bodies. Israel needs to back of a take a more nuanced approach to defend Hamas in Gaza. Netanyahu doesn't want that, the extreme hawks in the government seem to have zero appetite for changing what is a brutal and murderous occupation of Gaza. They are radicalising Palastinians that will lead to more terrorist and brutal attacks on their own people

Would that be the same Independent bodies who just parrot the claims by the Hamas propaganda machine or have they verified by checking evidence etc.

[AlexO]

If Israel follows 'the rules' of international law, they can claim the high ground, I they debase themselves by reducing their behaviour to that of the very evil Hamas thugs, then Hamas wins. I am afraid in the past few months they have moved in that direction. The figures of 40,000 dead in Gaza seems credible as it is voiced by many independent bodies. Israel needs to back of a take a more nuanced approach to defend Hamas in Gaza. Netanyahu doesn't want that, the extreme hawks in the government seem to have zero appetite for changing what is a brutal and murderous occupation of Gaza. They are radicalising Palastinians that will lead to more terrorist and brutal attacks on their own people

Whistler
Dont you find it absolutely amazing that these Independent bodies always seem to come up with the exact same figures as Gaza's 'independent Health Ministry publishes. Same as the unfounded accusations of Genocide, Deliberate starvation to famine levels, Hospitals unable to function due to fuel shortages and on it goes.
All accepted as absolute fact by the UN etc.
Goebbels couldn't have come up with more outlandish claims in 1945.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Lym, instead of taking personal pot shots from the peanut gallery, why don't you address what was said instead of snide personal attacks. I suspect the reason why is you are a nasty little person that lacks the intellectual means of doing so

I did address your analysis of the Israeli Government and criticised you for thinking you know better than the Government of Israel on how to conduct the war against Hamas in Gaza and the west bank. Do you not think that Israel has looked at all available options? Obviously, they have and found yours wanting.

However, in typical fashion, you cannot accept any position but your own and have to lash out with insults. The Government of Israel understands better than you do on how to conduct this war. Or do you disagree? If you disagree, why do you think you know best? It is difficult to grasp/comprehend you advising the Israelis on what to do. This nasty little person does not have any confidence that you can provide the solution for any strategy Israel decides to follow.

[Whistler]

LYM, do a bit of research instead of a knee jerk reaction. What I said is the opinion of the European Union, the UN for a start

It comes from the mouths of Amricans, British, Australia, South Africa etc. There is no shortages of people who say Israel has gone too far. 40,000 dead, whole cities devastated, it does not require to many neurons to deduce that this is wrong, it is a dispraportunate response to what was an awful terrorist act against Jewish people. End if story. That is my reading of the situation and I expressed it. We don't need your comments attacking the person and not the opinion. Offer a alternative view by all means but as in the past, can the personal nonsense.

[Udon Map]

If Israel follows 'the rules' of international law, they can claim the high ground, . . .

Well, sure, but that's of very limited benefit to Israel. The rockets keep flying in, the domestic terrorists keep ramming their cars into groups of Israelis, etc.

The figures of 40,000 dead in Gaza seems credible as it is voiced by many independent bodies.

There are, AFAIK, no "independent" bodies or sources of information on this other than the Hamas Health Ministry.

Israel needs to back of a take a more nuanced approach to defend Hamas in Gaza.

(Presumably you meant defeat, not defend.)

Can you think of one? I can't. How do you fight people who are dressed in civilian clothes, who hide among the civilian population, and base themselves in and under schools, private dwellings, houses of worship?

[Whistler]

Paul, it's not working now time to take a new approach

[Udon Map]

Paul, it's not working now time to take a new approach

You're not wrong, the problem is coming up with some new approach which would be more effective.

[Whistler]

I did address your analysis of the Israeli Government and criticised you for thinking you know better than the Government of Israel

In fact, yes, I do know better than the Government of Israel. The government of Israel is plain wrong. However I am not isolated in that view. This is the latest resolution from the UN Security Council, 15 members, 14 voted for that resolution, Russia abstained. Not one single endorsement for the Israeli policy.

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15723.doc.htm

So you LYM, how many worlds leaders apart from Israel agrees with you. I think the answer is zero, you have NFI.

I am 100% behind Israel have the right to hit back at the Evil Hamas terrorists, but that response needs to be proportionate, this war in Gaza is not.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I did address your analysis of the Israeli Government and criticised you for thinking you know better than the Government of Israel

In fact, yes, I do know better than the Government of Israel. The government of Israel is plain wrong. However I am not isolated in that view. This is the latest resolution from the UN Security Council, 15 members, 14 voted for that resolution, Russia abstained. Not one single endorsement for the Israeli policy.

https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15723.doc.htm

So you LYM, how many worlds leaders apart from Israel agrees with you. I think the answer is zero, you have NFI.

I am 100% behind Israel have the right to hit back at the Evil Hamas terrorists, but that response needs to be proportionate, this war in Gaza is not.

No, Khun Whistler. you are absolutely wrong. The Government of Israel knows what is best for Israel. The rest of the world does not understand what is best for Israel. and you and your 'holier than thou' attitude, certainly don't seem to have a clue. I trust the Government of Israel to know what is best for their citizens and country. I place no faith in you to solve the problem of Hamas and the future and fate of Israel.

[AlexO]

I am 100% behind Israel have the right to hit back at the Evil Hamas terrorists, but that response needs to be proportionate, this war in Gaza is not.

Whistler
Are you saying that the Israelis should just have been happy to going in and killing 1000 odd terrorists. then retreating and wait on the next slaughter of civilians at a pop concert or just living their normal lives?
If the murdering terrorists thought that would be the outcome of Oct 7 then they were sadly wrong. Cut the snake into bits then perhaps it will not bite again.
Political posturing at the pathetic UN is just another example of the weak hearted, hand wringing apologists we allow to be in positions of power in our seriously weak society.

[Udon Map]

I am 100% behind Israel have the right to hit back at the Evil Hamas terrorists, but that response needs to be proportionate, this war in Gaza is not.

How do you define proportionate? Should Israel have withdrawn when Hamas said that approximately the same number of Palesitnians had died as Israelis that Hamas killed, ~1,200? Do you have any suggestions as how better to prosecute a war strategy against an enemy that dresses in civilian clothes, embeds itself in the civilian population, hides its weapons in and under schools, homes, houses of worship and hospitals?

[jackspratt]

I'm not sure why this discussion is on a thread about the West Bank, but here goes.

IMO, dropping 3 x 2,000lb (or even 1,000lb) bombs in the middle of a tent city which has been designated by the IDF as a "safe area" (sic) is disproportionate, as is deliberately destroying huge swathes of civil infrastructure in Gaza.

These are just a couple of examples, without even taking a closer look at the number of civilian casualties, including a disproportionate number of women and children.