Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Udon Map]

I actually think the Aljazeera guide is actually quite accurate. Obviously lacking a lot of detail, but matches the research i did a few years ago.

The Jewish population 120 years ago was about 5%. Within 50 years it wanted 50% of the land (although it only actually owned a few percent). Would any of you be happy if that sort of demographic and ownership shift happened in your own country?

What has been happening for the last 20 years in the West bank is simply ethnic cleansing. Settlers can do what they want (including harrassing, shooting and destroying property of Palestinians) but heaven help you if you are a Palestinian who attacks a Jewish settlement.

I'm curious as to what your research sources were.

I am shocked by the savagery shown by Hamas to the civilians, but you have to ask yourself, why? Read the link Tam posted and you will know why.

So are you suggesting that there are circumstances in which specifically targeting, executing, and kidnapping civilians is acceptable behavior?

There are numerous instances of Palestinians prevailing in the Israeli court system, -- here are a few:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/worl ... -land.html

https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/115056

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/202 ... f78d880000

The key is that the aggrieved Palestinians used the Israeli legal system to address their grievances rather than terror.

[Khun Paul]

No. No he won't. And Congress (especially this headless one) wouldn't allow any other POTUS to do it either.

My understanding is that the House can't pass any legislation or take any action on anything until there's a new Speaker.

People complain and wax lyrical about what is happening in this futile war between Palistine and Israel

I don't think that anyone's "waxing lyrical" about what Hamas has done.

wax lyrical

idiom

chiefly British, informal
--> to talk about something in a very enthusiastic way
Ex.: He waxed lyrical about the time he spent living in southern France.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, as we have just seen. Until more countries unite in making terrorism unacceptable, it will continue. Doesn't matter the size, shape, flavor, or political persuasion, -- terrorism is terrorism, and terrorists are terrorists. They only understand one language. Hamas has to be destroyed completely, regardless of the cost.

Your comments are biased based upon Americans peculiar take on anything outside America. I remember talking about the Palestinian War and the SIX Day war around the families dinner table, living as it were in a jewish area in NW London where the information was first hand and peppered with real stories not as nowadays made up media Hype.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Why did Hamas put the Gaza residents at risk? Surely Hamas realised the response by Israel was going to be swift and deadly. Obviously, Hamas didn't care, and hope they can use social media to condemn Israel's attacks on Gaza throughout the world. Blame Hamas for what is happening in Gaza. Hamas knew what would take place in the aftermath of their invasion of Israel and could not care less about the fate of Gaza 'innocents'.

[Doodoo]

Its called WAR Lala. and a bomb/bullet does not discriminate when it fired
.

[tamada]

Why did Hamas put the Gaza residents at risk? Surely Hamas realised the response by Israel was going to be swift and deadly. Obviously, Hamas didn't care, and hope they can use social media to condemn Israel's attacks on Gaza throughout the world. Blame Hamas for what is happening in Gaza. Hamas knew what would take place in the aftermath of their invasion of Israel and could not care less about the fate of Gaza 'innocents'.

Radicalized and disaffected [insert any religion here] youth tend to do this. If you watch the clips that glorify Hamas and promote the intifada, it's the rebellious and idle young arab male that's dressed in black and willingly engaging in martyrdom.

Back to the question of what has allowed Hamas fill the Palestinian leadership vacuum?

In sh' Allah.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Whatever, the 'innocent' people of Gaza should realise what is going on and who is at fault for their current crisis. Blame Hamas.. On the other hand, one should not expect the Palestinians to rise up against Hamas as most of the residents don't have the means to do so.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Its called WAR Lala. and a bomb/bullet does not discriminate when it fired
.

Very enlightened response, Doodoo. But what has that got to do with the reason(s) for Hamas crossing the border into Israel and putting the lives of Gaza residents at risk? Focus, Doodoo, focus.

[Udon Map]

No. No he won't. And Congress (especially this headless one) wouldn't allow any other POTUS to do it either.

My understanding is that the House can't pass any legislation or take any action on anything until there's a new Speaker.

People complain and wax lyrical about what is happening in this futile war between Palistine and Israel

I don't think that anyone's "waxing lyrical" about what Hamas has done.

wax lyrical

idiom

chiefly British, informal
--> to talk about something in a very enthusiastic way
Ex.: He waxed lyrical about the time he spent living in southern France.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, as we have just seen. Until more countries unite in making terrorism unacceptable, it will continue. Doesn't matter the size, shape, flavor, or political persuasion, -- terrorism is terrorism, and terrorists are terrorists. They only understand one language. Hamas has to be destroyed completely, regardless of the cost.

Your comments are biased based upon Americans peculiar take on anything outside America. I remember talking about the Palestinian War and the SIX Day war around the families dinner table, living as it were in a jewish area in NW London where the information was first hand and peppered with real stories not as nowadays made up media Hype.

Which part is biased? Are you suggesting that Hamas is not a terrorist organization? You're certainly entitled to whatever opinion you want, just trying to clarify.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

No. No he won't. And Congress (especially this headless one) wouldn't allow any other POTUS to do it either.

My understanding is that the House can't pass any legislation or take any action on anything until there's a new Speaker.

People complain and wax lyrical about what is happening in this futile war between Palistine and Israel

I don't think that anyone's "waxing lyrical" about what Hamas has done.

wax lyrical

idiom

chiefly British, informal
--> to talk about something in a very enthusiastic way
Ex.: He waxed lyrical about the time he spent living in southern France.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, as we have just seen. Until more countries unite in making terrorism unacceptable, it will continue. Doesn't matter the size, shape, flavor, or political persuasion, -- terrorism is terrorism, and terrorists are terrorists. They only understand one language. Hamas has to be destroyed completely, regardless of the cost.

Your comments are biased based upon Americans peculiar take on anything outside America. I remember talking about the Palestinian War and the SIX Day war around the families dinner table, living as it were in a jewish area in NW London where the information was first hand and peppered with real stories not as nowadays made up media Hype.

Khun Paul, how can the stories be first-hand if they originated in N.W. London? Anyway, facts are needed, not stories.

[Khun Paul]

They were first had having come from people involved in said situations ( my neighbours son ) plus others who went and returned , local families were involved. Ever since the Palestine Emergency in 1956 Both sides have been competing for control and it frequently spilled over into conflict both there and elsewhere. Feelings run hgh on both sides. I never imp-lied Hamas was not as terrorist organisation but we must remember the situation was carved out following the 1956 emerfency and still even to this day causes concern and fighting as with may situations in the Middle East everything is fluid including political fallout and armed incidents, bottom line it is also religious based . We all know religion has been the excuse for millions of deaths over the centuries .

[glalt]

It should be obvious that Hamas doesn't care about innocent Palestinians. When Hamas massacres 260 young people at a music concert and kidnaps many more, they knew that revenge would be quick and deadly. Hamas said they would murder hostages if the air raids do not stop. Israel says that the air raids would stop when Hamas releases the hostages. If the hostages are murdered there will be many more Palestinians killed.

[Udon Map]

They were first had having come from people involved in said situations ( my neighbours son ) plus others who went and returned , local families were involved. Ever since the Palestine Emergency in 1956 Both sides have been competing for control and it frequently spilled over into conflict both there and elsewhere. Feelings run hgh on both sides. I never imp-lied Hamas was not as terrorist organisation but we must remember the situation was carved out following the 1956 emerfency and still even to this day causes concern and fighting as with may situations in the Middle East everything is fluid including political fallout and armed incidents, bottom line it is also religious based . We all know religion has been the excuse for millions of deaths over the centuries .

OK, but Israel was a relatively minor player in the 1956 mess. Certainly minor to U.S., Britain, France and the U.S.S.R.

The narrative advanced by the Palestinians (that includes all flavors, -- Hamas, P.A., etc.) and many Arab nations, namely that the Jews weren't there until the Balfour Declaration and eventual U.N. action, is regularly disproven by historical documents and archaeological finds. This is, as you pointed out, about religion, and hatred/scapegoating of Jews. Despite their public relations campaigns, they really make no distinction between Zionists and Jews.

[tamada]

It should be obvious that Hamas doesn't care about innocent Palestinians. When Hamas massacres 260 young people at a music concert and kidnaps many more, they knew that revenge would be quick and deadly. Hamas said they would murder hostages if the air raids do not stop. Israel says that the air raids would stop when Hamas releases the hostages. If the hostages are murdered there will be many more Palestinians killed.

[AlexO]

Which part is biased? Are you suggesting that Hamas is not a terrorist organization? You're certainly entitled to whatever opinion you want, just trying to clarify.

Depends on where you come from etc UM
I doubt many Muslims view HAMAS as a terrorist organisation as opposed to Freedom Fighters and unfortunately many more Western Left Wing leaning politico's are adopting a far harder line on support for Israel with greater sympathy shown to any antisemite cause now a given.
The French Maquis were not viewed as terrorists in the Western Allies eyes during WWII but I don't think the occupying Nazis held the same view.

[Udon Map]

Depends on where you come from etc UM

Well, yes, of course. Many Germans supported the Nazis, too. Given its actions of the past week and the world reaction, it's pretty clear that nearly (but not quite) the entire world views Hamas' actions as terrorist.

[jackspratt]

While I am sure most people recognise that the Hamas actions were terrorist, it appears to me that a lot more people are now asking "why"?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

While I am sure most people recognise that the Hamas actions were terrorist, it appears to me that a lot more people are now asking "why"?

For example, why would they provoke Israel when they surely knew it would be the Gaza residents who were going to suffer the most in the end? How does their action help Gaza? Commentators on the news do not seem able to pose/answer those questions.

[tamada]

Depends on where you come from etc UM

Well, yes, of course. Many Germans supported the Nazis, too. Given its actions of the past week and the world reaction, it's pretty clear that nearly (but not quite) the entire world views Hamas' actions as terrorist.

In the same context that many Germans supported the Nazi's without being a party member or committing crimes against humanity, with the Muslim faith constituting about 28% of the world's population, and not all of them supporting Hamas or terrorism, I doubt that the global condemnation of Hamas is anywhere close to being unanimous.

[Udon Map]

While I am sure most people recognise that the Hamas actions were terrorist, it appears to me that a lot more people are now asking "why"?

I agree, in two respects. I think that people are asking both 1) what drove them to violence, and 2) why choose violence when it was sure to provoke a strong and deadly response from Israel.

In the same context that many Germans supported the Nazi's without being a party member or committing crimes against humanity, with the Muslim faith constituting about 28% of the world's population, and not all of them supporting Hamas or terrorism, I doubt that the global condemnation of Hamas is anywhere close to being unanimous.

I expect that the large majority of Palestinians are normal, peace-loving people who just want to live their lives. But that doesn't serve the purposes of the leadership, so the people are repressed, executed if they disagree openly with leadership, etc. After Syria threw the Hamas leadership out, they all moved to Doha. Hamas gets its finding, as is pretty well known, primarily from Iran. But the leadership doesn't use the funds to improve the lives of the Gazans it governs, by building infrastructure, schools, hospitals, etc. Instead, it uses the funds to wage a terror campaign against Israel, which, in the end, it cannot win.

[jackspratt]

While I am sure most people recognise that the Hamas actions were terrorist, it appears to me that a lot more people are now asking "why"?

I agree, in two respects. I think that people are asking both 1) what drove them to violence, and 2) why choose violence when it was sure to provoke a strong and deadly response from Israel.

As I commented earlier in this thread, both your question are probably answered by reference to the likely Palestinian (and by extension, Hamas) dissatisfaction with the status quo up till a few days ago.

The "why"I refer to is why Hamas has taken this particularly violent action, given the 2 likely outcomes you refer to.

Different people will draw different conclusions.