Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Udon Map]

So you don't understand why they would object to Embassies being moved to East Jerusalem.

Not really, no. It was never "Palestinian" land. It was part of Jordan until 1967, then Jordan abandoned its claim to the land after the Six Day War. Had the Palestinians been willing to agree to a peace deal (as both Jordan and Egypt have), the West Bank likely would have been an established country, and a member nation of the U.N. called Palestine, rather than part of Israel. The problem is that they're more interested in getting rid of Israel than establishing their own country.

[jackspratt]

So you don't understand why they would object to Embassies being moved to East Jerusalem.

OK.

And that's just one.

Since an embassy isn't a synagogue, a mosque or a church, it must be that "stolen land" thing again?

No, it's that "implicit recognition" thing.

[tamada]

So you don't understand why they would object to Embassies being moved to East Jerusalem.

OK.

And that's just one.

Since an embassy isn't a synagogue, a mosque or a church, it must be that "stolen land" thing again?

No, it's that "implicit recognition" thing.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. It's the "implicit recognition" of the land NOT being stolen thing.

Yes, the 'international community' mostly says East Jerusalem is stolen, but since when have divided cities ever been a good or sustainable thing? The US, by finally ending decades of Presidential prevarication on their Israel embassy issue, can be seen by some as erasing the last facade of projected neutrality, whereas others see it as the inevitably painful step towards breaking the decades-old impasse and creating hope for peace. Making peace is a step that the Palestinians, under their current administrations, would never, ever be allowed to consider.

There's absolutely no doubt that the serial ineptitudes of Bibi and his over-dependence on the Jewish extremists to bolster his successive shonky administrations has unfortunately contributed to Israel going down this path. Despotic rule is never frictionless, no matter if it's the 'good' guy or the bad. However, let's not detract from the fact that the Iranian mullahs have seized on that factional divide. They fund Hamas and Hezbollah to foment division in their already divided land(s) with their stated objective to exterminate all Jews. All this at the huge cost to the civilian population and the unified nation they portend to create.

[jackspratt]

So you don't understand why they would object to Embassies being moved to East Jerusalem.

Not really, no. It was never really Palestinian land. It was part of Jordan until 1967, then Jordan abandoned its claim to the land after the Six Day War. Had the Palestinians been willing to agree to a peace deal (as both Jordan and Egypt have), the West Bank likely would have been an established country, and a member nation of the U.N. called Palestine, rather than part of Israel. The problem is that they're more interested in getting rid of Israel than establishing their own country.

Besides recognising the history of this issue, I don't see much point in dwelling on who was right or wrong going back over 70 years now. That, in large part, has got us to where we are now.

This is a "now" problem, and solutions need to be found today. As I have stated previously, the status quo is not a solution, however much it might suit the purposes of those on both sides who don't seem too interested in resolution.

ps It is the subject of some dispute whether Ms Meir ever said those words. https://www.haaretz.com/2015-06-16/ty-a ... e02e3a0000

[Udon Map]

ps It is the subject of some dispute whether Ms Meir ever said those words.

Interesting, I didn't know that. I couldn't access your link, as it appears to be behind a paywall. However, here is the backstory (with no paywall) of one person's effort to authenticate this and other quotes from Ms. Meir. https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/fro ... 015/06/10/

[jackspratt]

Looks like the same story, just a different source.

[tamada]

I'll ignore the implied importance of who said it and just take in the humanity of it.

The sentiment could be easily applied to the killings in Myanmar or to the blind hatred of another person's religion or ideology as seen during "The Troubles" in NI or forever bubbling under the surface in the present-day Balkans.

[Udon Map]

Reuters:

EU imposes sanctions on Hamas political leader in Gaza

https://www.reuters.com/world/eu-impose ... 024-01-16/

[Udon Map]

Reuters:

EU lawmakers stop short of seeking unconditional Gaza ceasefire

BRUSSELS, Jan 18 (Reuters) - The European Parliament stopped short on Thursday of calling for an unconditional ceasefire in the Gaza Strip, saying this should happen only if hostages held in the besieged Palestinian enclave were released and Hamas dismantled.

https://www.reuters.com/world/eu-lawmak ... 024-01-18/

[tamada]

Reading that Hamas has reacted to Netanyahu's rejection of their latest offer with the admonishment that there's ‘no chance’ hostages will return to Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... jects-deal

About ten days ago, Hamas said "hostages won’t go home alive as long as Israeli forces remain in Gaza."

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/10/worl ... -gaza.html

[Udon Map]

About ten days ago, Hamas said "hostages won’t go home alive as long as Israeli forces remain in Gaza."

As difficult as it would be to take the decision, I think that the hostages should be written off. When you give in to extortion, it only encourages repeat behavior.

[jackspratt]

Seems the IDF is having a jolly old time going about the senseless and unnecessary destruction of Gazan civilian infrastructure - and celebrating on social media.

This is not indiscriminate aerial bombing, or relentless artillery shelling, or which we have seen plenty - it is guys with bulldozers and explosives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/worl ... video.html

In the meantime, the headcount of deaths in Gaza is now estimated to be more than 27,000. They can't all be Hamas fighters.

When will this slaughter cease?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Seems the IDF is having a jolly old time going about the senseless and unnecessary destruction of Gazan civilian infrastructure - and celebrating on social media.

This is not indiscriminate aerial bombing, or relentless artillery shelling, or which we have seen plenty - it is guys with bulldozers and explosives.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/06/worl ... video.html

In the meantime, the headcount of deaths in Gaza is now estimated to be more than 27,000. They can't all be Hamas fighters.

When will this slaughter cease?

Perhaps, if and when, Hamas is eliminated.

[jackspratt]

What does "Hamas eliminated" look like, Uncle?

Is it the complete destruction of Gaza, and the dire consequences for its civilian population?

And the increasingly likely involvement of other players in the region.

Sounds like the mindless reasoning of the US and some allies behind the "domino theory" in SE Asia in the 50s - 70s.

[Doodoo]

"Perhaps, if and when, Hamas is eliminated."
If they are then some other group will slide in to take over. Read the Karan. So I doubt the logic will never disappear
Hence fighting will go on

[tamada]

What does "Hamas eliminated" look like, Uncle?

Is it the complete destruction of Gaza, and the dire consequences for its civilian population?

And the increasingly likely involvement of other players in the region.

Sounds like the mindless reasoning of the US and some allies behind the "domino theory" in SE Asia in the 50s - 70s.

While on this mindless and irrelevant neighborhood retrospective, does your crystal ball tell us what SE Asia and our chosen homeland could be like today if the "domino theory" hadn't been the prevailing raison d’être at the time?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

What does "Hamas eliminated" look like, Uncle?

Is it the complete destruction of Gaza, and the dire consequences for its civilian population?

And the increasingly likely involvement of other players in the region.

Sounds like the mindless reasoning of the US and some allies behind the "domino theory" in SE Asia in the 50s - 70s.

I don't see how the domino theory comes into play in the Israeli-Hamas conflict as I doubt you are thinking that Hamas is attempting to convert Israel to its ideology through revolution. One would hope that Hamas would turn over a new leaf and announce that they no longer want to drive Israel into the sea, and will accept peaceful co-existence with their enemy, but that option does not seem to be on the table. Alas, the destruction looks like it is going to continue. Iran, the other main player in the region, is already involved.

[Whistler]

JS may have his views, INHO the domino theory was nonsense pushed by MacNamara who had no foreign policy experience before his appointment.

It was the driving force behind the Vietnam War that the USA lost convincingly. So the answer, SEAsia is no different now as an outcome of the domino theory. European colonists still got kicked out and the USA propping up France in the region was a flawed and failed policy.

Same same as it ever was

[Udon Map]

Seems the IDF is having a jolly old time going about the senseless and unnecessary destruction of Gazan civilian infrastructure - and celebrating on social media.

First, we can have a separate conversation some other time about whether what Israel is doing in Gaza is senseless, unnecessary, or both.

With regard to the celebrating on social media, -- Is it appropriate? Certainly not. Is there any excuse for it? No. Do I understand it? Yes. Hamas/Hezbollah have been firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel daily for more than a decade. There are regular random attacks against civilians, cars driving into groups of people waiting at bus stations, women pulling knives out from under their abayas and stabbing random people, children kidnapped and killed, and the like. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if many Israelis believe that this decisive, and, yes, brutal, action by Israel could possibly be the beginning of the end of the daily terror attacks.

In the meantime, the headcount of deaths in Gaza is now estimated to be more than 27,000. They can't all be Hamas fighters.

Of course not. But by embedding themselves and hiding in the civilian population, Hamas is the entity bringing this on the Palestinian people.

When will this slaughter cease?

Unfortunately this is the same question that Israelis have been asking about the daily attacks they have endured for far too long. When will this cease?

No time soon, I'm afraid.

[jackspratt]

No response to my second paragraph?

Did you read the Times article?