Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Khun Paul]

As usual m,any people side with the perceived underdog ignoring the facts, the stats etc, just going with their own self important gut feeling .
Having grown up in a predominant Jewish area of NW London , learning about the HISTORY of Israel from Jews and many Arabs as well I can tell you the proverbial pain in the ass is HAMAS . Whose constant sniping at Israel over the years and especially the latest attack on Israel causing indiscriminate deaths etc- It is these people that have triggered the latest response by Israel, More times than I can remember Palestine WAS OFFERED PEACE AND TUIRNED IT DOWN, due in part to interference by HAMAS , who let us not forget will deliberately put Palestinian Civilians in the firing line to protect themselves .
The Palestinians may well be the innocents in this situation ( Not HAMAS ) however the way HAMAS runs GAZA and the surrounding areas to go against them is death . Sport of catch 22, oppose HAMAS equals death , saying nothing, MAY equal death as well.

[Khun Paul]

This sums it up nicely I feel:-
I had to share this, a friend of mine posted this and it rings so so true.
DON'T ARGUE WITH DONKEYS
(I really hope some of you read this!)
"The donkey said to the tiger:
"The grass is blue."
The tiger replied:
"No, the grass is green."
The discussion heated up, and the two decided to go to the lion, an individual of the jungle.
Already before reaching the forest, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout:
"His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?"
The lion replied:
"True, the grass is blue."
The donkey hurried and continued:
"The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him."
an individual then declared:
"The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence."
The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating:
"The grass is blue!"
The tiger accepted his punishment, but he asked the lion:
"Your Majesty, why have you punished me? After all, the grass is green."
The lion replied:
"In fact, the grass is green."
The tiger asked:
"So why are you punishing me?"
The lion replied:
"That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."
The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense... There are people who, no matter how much evidence and evidence we present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not. When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quietness are worth more."

[jackspratt]

How 'bout an end to the daily rocket and terror attacks against Israel.

You are correct - I have edited my post accordingly.

[tamada]

Hamas claim 210 killed and 400 injured during the hostage rescue.

The IDF claim the rescue occurred in two separate apartment blocks in a residential area.

Duhhh...

Oops... Hamas has subsequently added that some Israeli hostages were also killed in the IDF rescue action.

Bloody balloon poppers!

Antonio will be soooooo upset.

[tamada]

"...The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense... There are people who, no matter how much evidence and evidence we present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not. When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quietness are worth more."

Nicely done KP.

See my Messner quote below.

[tamada]

What in God's name is wrong with these people who call the IDF's actions deplorable but handily avoid commenting that Hamas were holding the Israeli hostages among innocent Palestinian civilians, including WOMEN AND CHILDREN, inside a refugee camp?

Unbelievably, they pivot from pillorying Israel to demanding all hostages be released WITHOUT A SINGLE BAD WORD ABOUT HAMAS'S CULPABILITY.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... tion=alert

[Doodoo]

"including WOMEN AND CHILDREN, inside a refugee camp?"

SO?

[Doodoo]

Missed
"that is what unfortunately happens during conflicts"
Since the UN issued a statement condemning both sides what has happened, SFA.
Is there end in sight, NOPE
Whats next, who knows and so who cares

[tamada]

For those who do care, it appears that some Israeli hostages died during the IDF rescue mission. Like the Palestinian "collateral damage", this wasn't previously disclosed on Netanyahu's media drip-feed on the hostage rescue. Not a good look at all.

So much so, that Benny Gantz, a centrist minister in the Israeli war cabinet has quit.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-06-09/

[Doodoo]

"For those who do care,", so what will you do other than pound away of your keyboard?
As an example, this past week the UN, 37,500 people in fact the world population was represented and the Secretary General came out and said "Now boys and girls time to put your guns away and go back home or Teacher will have to keep you after school" Instead he said it with a "stern tone"
The ones who do care are the ones who do something about it
So I cant see any of us marching off to Israel and picking up arms unless we can take our laptops

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Just because someone might be too old and frail, have other responsibilities or other legitimate reasons not to go and take up arms does not mean a person does not care. Does caring mean having to pick up a weapon and using it in your world? Think about it.

[Udon Map]

For those who do care, it appears that some Israeli hostages died during the IDF rescue mission. Like the Palestinian "collateral damage", this wasn't previously disclosed on Netanyahu's media drip-feed on the hostage rescue. Not a good look at all.

The news reports that I saw shortly after the raid was announced said that Hamas executed some Israeli hostages and implied that it was in retaliation. ABC News said "Hamas later released a video claiming that three other hostages, including an American, were killed in the bombardment, but it provided no evidence."

Apparently some hostages (like the woman who was rescued) were being held/guarded by Palestinian civilians. It seems that an Al Jazeera journalist and his family had been holding the female hostage, and the family was killed by the IDF in the rescue mission. https://www.yahoo.com/news/father-israe ... ily%20home.

[Doodoo]

"Just because someone might be too old and frail, have other responsibilities or other legitimate reasons not to go and take up arms "
If you had someone banging on your door I think you would take up arms regardless of age

[Udon Map]

If you had someone banging on your door I think you would take up arms regardless of age

Not sure what you're talking about here. You mean Hamas banging on the door ordering them to house and guard a hostage? You mean the IDF banging on the door to free the hostage? Something else?

[tamada]

"including WOMEN AND CHILDREN, inside a refugee camp?"

SO?

Portraying the importance of "women and children" as victims of IDF aggression is common with some Norwegians and the other morally enraged cease-fire protagonists getting bandwidth in mainstream media. In the pro-Hamas, Al-Jazeera world, for being part of Hamas's odious human shield, these same victims are simply dismissed as martyrs.

Hope this helps.

[Doodoo]

"Are you here to free hostages, take me and my family off to a prison cell, or just kill me?'

I dont think people would be asking Nowadays in this area it would be shoot first ask questions later

[Udon Map]

"Are you here to free hostages, take me and my family off to a prison cell, or just kill me?"

Hamas chose to hide the hostages in civilian areas, even in civilian residences. As one Palestinian said, “I am also angry because Hamas chose to hide these people among us,” he said. “Why?”

When civilians are armed and holding hostages on behalf of a terrorist organization, hostages which were taken in a terrorist raid, even if they are holding the hostages in their home, they become combatants and legitimate targets.

More details on the raid now coming out:

Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... scue-raid/

Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/h ... d-eab2a010

BBC: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp334z7rxxmo

[Laan Yaa Mo]

It is nice to see that over 50,000 people turned up in Toronto to march for Israel on the weekend. The annual 'Walk with Israel' event used to cover 2 miles in the seventies, but only 6 kms. these days. In the event, it was a nice turnout.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/isr ... onto-rally

[Udon Map]

The annual 'Walk with Israel' event used to cover 2 miles in the seventies, but only 6 kms. these days. In the event, it was a nice turnout.

The linked article says that it was the largest such turnout ever in Toronto. As an aside, 6 km. is approximately 3¾ miles. And, yes, a great turnout!

[Laan Yaa Mo]

It was 22 miles back in the seventies or so a Toronto website suggested. My mistake.

The first Walk with Israel in 1970 was called the “Walk for Jewish Survival.” Funds raised on the 35 km (22 mile) Walk were earmarked for the 'UJA-Israel Special Fund'. Today the UJA Walk with Israel is the biggest Israel solidarity Walk in all of North America.

https://search.ontariojewisharchives.or ... ptions9194

Nevertheless, Toronto lived up to its nickname, 'Toronto the Good'.