Enormous shakeup of visa and immigration rules

Post by **rickfarang** » October 2, 2006, 4:43 pm

Source:
http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?a ... ws&id=1907

Posted 1. October 2006, 20:07

Enormous shakeup of visa and immigration rules
Most farangs will be affected

What began as a restriction on the number of 30 day visas on arrival has turned out to be a major reshuffling of immigration regulations, most of which were framed as far back as 1979. The new rules apply to short term and long term tourists and farang residents and cover yearly extensions of various types, investment visas and even work permits.

The fact that it was announced on September 24 that the national immigration bureau chief lieutenant general Suwit Thamrongsrisakul has been transferred to an inactive post is not thought to have any bearing on visa matters. None the less, Pattaya Today stresses that the changes described below were accurate as of September 26, when we went to press, with an anticipated implementation date of October 1.

Post by **kevh** » October 2, 2006, 4:57 pm

worrying times for some people.

Post by **Bump** » October 2, 2006, 5:08 pm

Depending on how enforced the the items are mau have have tremendoes effect on a lot of us. I for example move more the required through a year, but I do use the money for my living expenses. At one point in the single requirements it says the money needs to be in the account for at leaset three months if I understood correctly before the issuance of a visa. Then the account would be tracked to see if huge monies are moved out of the account.

Then it speaks of the Married to a Thai (more accuaretly support of a Thai) the cash placed in the account not the money earned by the retire. Also stresses money movement from the account, using the word huge again.

These brings question to mind, is now that a minimum balance of 400K or 800K constantly required?

Will it be a combination of funds to total those amounts through a year a we have had?

Will it allow the monies required be verified as an income earned from outside Thailand but not placed in a Thai bank as was recently discussed?

I think this might deserve some research by those effected and duscussion as I do see somethings if this in fact how the regulations are written are different then the past.

If any of you operate as I do, using the money in the account on a monthly basis this could have a huge effect on our next renewals.

Great minds think a like with a postiing of three min. apart so if you can please delete my thread

Post by **BKKSTAN** » October 2, 2006, 5:22 pm

The old regulation, however, that you must produce an annual medical certificate for this visa has been withdrawn.

Great,I save 30 baht

But I feel sorry for the health clinics,this was quick easy money for them!Got passport,OK,you healthy

Post by **Bump** » October 2, 2006, 5:59 pm

These are the areas of concern in my mind

The so called retirement visa.

This allows foreigners aged 50 and over to extend a non-immigrant visa for up to 12 months from the date of the last entry into Thailand. It requires either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or a combination of cash in the bank and proof of pension paid in the home country. A letter from the respective embassy is required for proof of pension. From now on, the immigration officer will need to see proof that the 800,000 baht has been there for three months prior to the visa being issued. This is to stop the practice of moving money into a bank account, and promptly out again, once the visa is granted.

The old regulation, however, that you must produce an annual medical certificate for this visa has been withdrawn.

The so called married man

Post by **Dakoda** » October 2, 2006, 6:25 pm

As lapamita post says on thaivisa

there is no way even if you have money

this are clear and solid rules in many other countrys

for example MALAYSIA

www.imo.gov.my

you are below 50 and have money, you get 10 year RESIDENCE VISA without hassle, money under table or however.

bring 3 M baht you get
--free import of your car
--free householdgood
--you entiteld for buy land and house
--10 year RESIDENCE VISA
--can receive intrestincomming ( no 0 rule for foreigner)

everything you can apply with clear rules!

Post by **rickfarang** » October 2, 2006, 6:32 pm

ray23 wrote:These are the areas of concern in my mind
[Some text removed]

These brings question to mind, is now that a minimum balance of 400K or 800K constantly required?

Will it be a combination of funds to total those amounts through a year a we have had?

Will it allow the monies required be verified as an income earned from outside Thailand but not placed in a Thai bank as was recently discussed?

Reading from the article some answers are evident:
Q: "...is now that a minimum balance of 400K or 800K constantly required? "
A: Yes.

Q:"...Will it be a combination of funds to total those amounts through a year a we have had? "
A: Yes. Retired can combine funds. Married cannot.

Q:"Will it allow the monies required be verified as an income earned from outside Thailand but not placed in a Thai bank as was recently discusse?"
A: Yes. For retirement, "A letter from the respective embassy is required for proof of pension.". For married, the statement only refers to the 400k balance and notes that they intend to look every now and then to make sure its still there.

This does suggest that you can't draw the money out of the bank throughout the year, than as many of us do, replenish it just before renewing our visas.

Since we really won't know what is real and what is not until it happens, we will just have to wait and see what happens to people as they apply for extensions. And even then, as noted previously, the enforcement has varied by Immigration office, etc.

One thing that has been consistent as long as I can remember is that the people at Immigration have always been as helpful as they could be.

Post by **arjay** » October 2, 2006, 7:34 pm

It requires either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or a combination of cash in the bank and proof of pension paid in the home country. A letter from the respective embassy is required for proof of pension. From now on, the immigration officer will need to see proof that the 800,000 baht has been there for three months prior to the visa being issued. This is to stop the practice of moving money into a bank account, and promptly out again, once the visa is granted.

The first sentence above is NOT correct. There are 3 options, not two.

As I understand it under the existing rules. The requirement for the retirement visa is, either (1) 800K in a bank a/c here in LoS, or (2) a monthly pension/income of at least 65K in your own country or wherever - there is however no requirement that that has to be transferred into a bank here).

Or if one doesn't fulfill either of the above, then there is a third option, (3) that you can have a combination of the two, - e.g. say lump sum of 400K and a pension of 32.5K a month.

That has been the requirement up to now! I have had that confirmed by a Bangkok lawyer and by Immigration in Phuket.

I even have it on a pre-printed list of requirements given to me by Nong Khai Immigration, where it exactly confirms the above, stating you must fulfil number 1 OR number 2 OR number 3 (number 3 being a combination of numbers 1 and 2). All this is despite the fact that they seem to want to impose any permutation/combination of those conditions at their own convenience.

Post by **Bump** » October 2, 2006, 7:37 pm

Sometimes life can be very funny. if it is actually enforced as written, I qaulify for the retirement visa, but not the married version.

But the real test is going to be when someone renews.

I have to admit that the most frustrating thing that personally deal with is this. Thank goodness it's only once a year.

A true retirement visa would sure make life better.

Post by **Bump** » October 2, 2006, 7:51 pm

arjay wrote:
It requires either 800,000 baht in a Thai bank or a combination of cash in the bank and proof of pension paid in the home country. A letter from the respective embassy is required for proof of pension. From now on, the immigration officer will need to see proof that the 800,000 baht has been there for three months prior to the visa being issued. This is to stop the practice of moving money into a bank account, and promptly out again, once the visa is granted.
The first sentence above is NOT correct. There are 3 options, not two.

As I understand it under the existing rules. The requirement for the retirement visa is, either (1) 800K in a bank a/c here in LoS, or (2) a monthly pension/income of at least 65K in your own country or wherever - there is however no requirement that that has to be transferred into a bank here).

Or if one doesn't fulfill either of the above, then there is a third option, (3) that you can have a combination of the two, - e.g. say lump sum of 400K and a pension of 32.5K a month.

That has been the requirement up to now! I have had that confirmed by a Bangkok lawyer and by Immigration in Phuket.

I even have it on a pre-printed list of requirements given to me by Nong Khai Immigration, where it exactly confirms the above, stating you must fulfil number 1 OR number 2 OR number 3 (number 3 being a combination of numbers 1 and 2). All this is despite the fact that they seem to want to impose any permutation/combination of those conditions at their own convenience.

As you say that would be no change at all, if they have infact changed anything I.E. not accepting a combination of funds for the marriage visa. Wouldn't we have to see that in an ammendment to current law. My thoughts were to see the if the actual law changes over the next few months. I dioubt that the changes would be out this quiclkly. I think what we are reading is a reporters interputation of what the laws were changed to. Not the actual code.

My monthly fund exceed the the retirement requirments already, I filed the marriage visa ( supporting a Thai) I have been told by others that each year thier wives sign documents a well as them. I have never had this happen, does anyone have any experience with this?

I'm not real sure that my documents were ever changed it hasn't been an issue so I have never really asked. Jut curious.

What is the best Thai immigration site to find the status of current law?

When I type in Thailand Immigration I get a Nong Khai site with latest update over a year ago when they closed the AEK office.

Post by **Dakoda** » October 2, 2006, 8:45 pm

a dozen farang's have read the same newspaper report and have come up with different interpretations. What do you'll think, a couple of thousands Thai's are going to come up with ?

Sounds to me like 800k just turned into 1.5m, you have to have 800k in bank three months before and three months after!

Post by **kevh** » October 2, 2006, 9:00 pm

Where does the 1.5 million come from that dakoda mentions.?

Post by **rickfarang** » October 2, 2006, 9:10 pm

2 x 800 k = 1.6 million. But in theory, you could just put 800k into the bank and leave it there

Seriously, in the past. I've heard it said that Immigration was concerned that the same 800k was being moved from bank account to bank account as different people had their visa extensions approved. Maybe it happened in some isolated cases, but it sounds rather impractical to me.

We'll just have to wait until some brave volunteers goe into immigration and try to renew their visas in order to know what is actually being required. Mine is not due for a few weeks yet. I hope somebody else reports their experience first

Post by **arjay** » October 2, 2006, 9:22 pm

rickfarang wrote:Reading from the article some answers are evident:
Q: "...is now that a minimum balance of 400K or 800K constantly required? "
A: Yes.

Rick, The article doesn't say or confirm that.

Also much of what it does say appears to be interpretation. It is a newspaper article after all.

No doubt they have picked up on a number of valid points, (such as the doing away with the Medical Certificate), but many of the things said are neither precise, nor definitive. As borne out by my earlier posting regarding the 800K balance -v- the monthly pension/income. The article doesn't even specify the amount of monthly income - it simply merges the two points into one.

Post by **arjay** » October 2, 2006, 9:31 pm

kevh wrote:Where does the 1.5 million come from that dakoda mentions.?

As far as I am aware it doesn't (come from anywhere). It's just speculation and rumour that is floating around.

Dakoda was, I believe being flippant, - (no doubt he will correct me if I am wrong

), because of the various interpretations and things being read into this article and others).

Lee sometime back made a comment tongue-in-cheek about all sorts of things being tightened up, and threw in the possibility of the retirement amount being raised to 1.5K and then not long after it was being quoted in various postings in this and I believe other Forums!

I don't believe anyone has seen it in any official communications from anywhere.

Post by **Bump** » October 2, 2006, 9:34 pm

Ok where the site where we can track this for a little peace of mind. I'm almost afraid to check Thai Visa

Post by **Bump** » October 2, 2006, 9:45 pm

Ok this is the web site

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/12.php

I didn't see any chan ge as to the retiremeent visa at all, but since this was enacted yesterday it might not be correct or it might be, worth checking in the future to confirm

Post by **arjay** » October 2, 2006, 9:50 pm

Rick found the article here:

http://www.pattayatoday.net/index.php?a ... ws&id=1907

see the first post under this topic.

You will see it's an article from the Pattaya Today newspaper. It's written as one very long paragraph, which touches briefly on many aspects of visas. It's not a definitive set of regulations from Immigration.

Post by **rickfarang** » October 2, 2006, 10:02 pm

Arjay, you are right about that - its only a newspaper article, after all.

The proof will be in the pudding.

Post by **arjay** » October 2, 2006, 10:03 pm

Ray, using your weblink above, I will quote the point I was referring to, which is quite clear, and is consistent with my longstanding understanding of the criteria. Note the use of the word "OR" in the quote below.

A copy of bank statement showing a deposit at the amount equal to not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate (an original copy) with a monthly income of not less than 65,000 Baht, or a deposit account plus a monthy income totalling not less than 800,000 Baht.

I don't know whether that material is the existing, or some new set of criteria, but it is certainly more clearly worded than the article from the Pattaya Post. Or indeed whether the Pattaya Post is referring to new regulations that supercede those on your Thai Gov't webpage.

Note also it does not say that a Medical Certificate is not required.