Family pressure

Post by **rickus** » February 20, 2007, 4:34 pm

I have been in a relationship with Thai Gf for 12 months, during the last year when we visit her parents, usually twice a month,, I always slip Mama 2000 baht. I have just found out, the money I give the Gf each month, 10000 baht, she has been giving most of it to the parents. Her parents are looking after her baby 14 months old. The parents have just finished harvesting corn and rice and I was told they only make 10000 baht for the year. Her father rang a few weeks ago, saying Mama and Baby were sick, demanding that she bring money home, she was in tears so I gave her 2000 baht to take to them, which she did. I have seen her father going through her purse, while we were at their home. The money from what I have seen, has been used to build a brick wall around their home and not used for the welfare of the child. The pressure from the family is such that it is starting to effect our relationship. How do you guys that have a thai spouse handle these family pressures, put on your wife, and ultimately you.?????

Post by **stoneman** » February 20, 2007, 5:49 pm

rickus wrote:I have been in a relationship with Thai Gf for 12 months, during the last year when we visit her parents, usually twice a month,, I always slip Mama 2000 baht. I have just found out, the money I give the Gf each month, 10000 baht, she has been giving most of it to the parents. Her parents are looking after her baby 14 months old.

I guess I have to ask the obvious question...Since you and GF are living in Thailand, why isn't her child living with you?...This would solve all your problems...Then 2,000 baht a month is more than enough for the parents..

laphanphon · Post by **laphanphon** » February 20, 2007, 5:49 pm

stop, tell gf no more for family. if she doesn't agree, good bye, have a nice day. they can only steal your money if you let them, and it appears that is all they are doing.

Post by **jingjai** » February 20, 2007, 6:08 pm

I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want a 14 month old baby around the house.
I agree with LA. Stop giving in. Figure out a sum of money that YOU are comfortable in providing, only YOU know what your budget allows.
I've said this before, one needs to set perimeters in these cross cultural relationships. Let's face it, most of our girlfriends, wives, etc., are still, emotionally, children.
But remember this pal, their family always has and always will come first.
One of the best bits of advice I recieved 17 years ago was:
"there are toooooooooooooooo many women in Thailand".

Post by **rickfarang** » February 20, 2007, 7:10 pm

Or, an alternative view: Your girlfriend was raised with the concept that she is obligated to pay back her mother and father for bringing her into this world and caring for her until she was old enough to leave home. She is only happy when she is taking care of her parents. If you give her 10k per month to spend as she chooses, and she sends most of it to her mother, then accept this as something she feels compelled to do. In any contest between a boyfriend or husband and a Thai woman's mother, the mother is certain to win. Don't fight it. Take this as an opportunity to show that you can support your girlfriend and her family.

Mothers in Issan often take care of grandchildren as if they were there own as the mother works away from the village. This is not related to the money that your girlfriend gives to her mother. Her mother will take care of her grandchild regardless of whether your girlfriend sends money or not, so this might have just been a way your girlfriend used explain her sending the money. The money was for her family's welfare, her child included.

There are always exceptions, but it looks like in your case, the above is true. Its best to just relax and go with the flow to the extent possible. If you cannot afford to give them more, they will most likely accept the fact.

If, for some reason, you don't want to or cannot stand to see her sending money to her parents, then perhaps you should part ways with her and find an orphan or a woman who is estranged from her parents (caution!).

Her dad going through her purse sounds a little disturbing. I once noticed one of my wife's Uncles opening and looking into my wallet, but from what I could tell, it was only curiousity to see what a farang would keep in there. Maybe your girlfriend's father was also curious about something. Don't over-analyze it.

From what you have written and what I have seen, your girlfriend and her family's behavior is entirely normal.

So at this point, you have three different opinions. Apply your intution to these and the others you are ceratin to get. Good luck -whatever the outcome.

Post by **ttom** » February 21, 2007, 6:29 pm

rickus wrote:I have been in a relationship with Thai Gf for 12 months, during the last year when we visit her parents, usually twice a month,, I always slip Mama 2000 baht. I have just found out, the money I give the Gf each month, 10000 baht, she has been giving most of it to the parents. Her parents are looking after her baby 14 months old. The parents have just finished harvesting corn and rice and I was told they only make 10000 baht for the year. Her father rang a few weeks ago, saying Mama and Baby were sick, demanding that she bring money home, she was in tears so I gave her 2000 baht to take to them, which she did. I have seen her father going through her purse, while we were at their home. The money from what I have seen, has been used to build a brick wall around their home and not used for the welfare of the child. The pressure from the family is such that it is starting to effect our relationship. How do you guys that have a thai spouse handle these family pressures, put on your wife, and ultimately you.?????

I am very sorry but it looks like you’re having problems to understand Thai social structures. Daily life can be very complicated and need to be sorted out only by you carefully and step by step, just use common sense.

1. 2000 TBT for three people per month is truly not much. If there is no further income i.e. from farming, they can hardly live on it and they might eat there savings. You should double this amount.

2. Find yourself a local (male) Thai friend who is able to communicate by email or so with you. This can be anybody, even one of the family members. Don’t by shy asking for his opinion on any question. Be careful, friendship needs trust and time. Everybody in Thailand is having a best friend. His opinion will be valued.

3. Tell your GF how much can afford to spend monthly above the amount I’ve mentioned above. This is pending many topics. Do you live part time with the family? If yes, you should at least contribute to the maintenance of the property. Have a look by yourself what is needed (roofing, wiring etc.) – and what is wanted (that’s a lot) and make a list of priorities together with GF, mama, and papa. Tell them when you can provide certain amounts needed. Make next pending from progress of work. If there is a budget, anybody is able to plan accordingly.

4. Do not talk money matters directly with mama or papa and never hand over money to them Talk to them thru your GF friendly and calm and let her do it, even all the payments. She knows when and how to raise this topic. It’s usually done one by one.

5. Make sure that all (mama, papa, baby) are signet into the local health scheme with a local hospital. Presently they need to pay 30 TBT visit for doctors consultancy and medicine. There a re plans to provide soon free medical care.
For your bay you can by an extra private insurance, i.e. BUPA or some other. That’s not expensive but can provide the best medical care available for your baby.

6. Try to spend as much time together as possible with family. It really is difficult to understand by anybody that spending 2000 TBT or more per day in some holiday resort is possible but there is no money for the family left. Try to arrange one ore two day trips to there favourite places, which usually are temples of some natural beauty spots. Take them out to inexpensive local events. You need to buy some food and dinks but usually they provide most by themselves. You might need to pay for transportation.

7. Try to understand Thai social structures and don’t appear “greedy”. It looks like that most of your problems are simply misunderstandings. Clarify you position in a responsible and sensitive matter and all will respect you for that. Thai family life isn’t free of trouble like nowhere around the globe. But it is often an very happy one.

Post by **banpaeng** » February 21, 2007, 7:17 pm

Ask a couple of good questions.

1. How did these people survive before you came along?

2. If it is not your baby but you care for the girl, care for the baby in your house.

3. Let the GF know what you will allow for the family and do that. As stated the old sick stuff is BS as it cost 30 Baht. If there are true medical problems (catostophic) it is your call.

These questions might seem tough but if you expect to excel at this relationship you need to let it be know what the limits are. If not then you get what you deserve. This is really no different than any relationship anywhere. Lets see in the states it is I lost my Job or my car is broke. Sad stories but what are the true facts. Find out then decide.

As Jingjai says, there are sooooooooooooooo many women here. There are a lotttttttttttttttttttt of Gooooooooooooooooood women here also. Do not be a walking ATM.

Post by **Doc** » February 21, 2007, 8:25 pm

Gees TTom - why not go whole hog and tell the poster to put the parents on his bank account too?

Post by **polehawk** » February 21, 2007, 8:51 pm

That's the way ttom would do it cuz he can "afford" it. Walking ATM? Hell, he would just hand it over and knock out the middleman. Does know a lot about taking a bus tho.

laphanphon · Post by **laphanphon** » February 21, 2007, 9:16 pm

Well, I don

Post by **beer monkey** » February 21, 2007, 10:19 pm

[quote="tttom"]2. Find yourself a local (male) Thai friend who is able to communicate by email or so with you. This can be anybody, even one of the family members. Don

Post by **rickus** » February 22, 2007, 5:19 am

Thanks guys for the advice, much appreciated, there is a final sting in these money issues, last year the GF informed me that her grandma had given her and her brother a block of land each, and we could build a house on it. That convesation was obviously forgotton, as 2 weeks ago, I was informed that grandma wanted to sell some land, Gfs father wanted to buy it, but I could have first choice and buy it for GF for 100,000 baht, obviously in GFs name. It really appears to me as a whole family scheme, GF included, to relieve me of money. After doing what I thought was the right things in the past, supporting GF, money for family, buying clothes toys and milk for the baby I found this very disappointing. If they are prepared to do this now, just what sort of a burden would they become, after the relationship progresses further. I really did not mind helping out but after this land deal my attitude has really changed about a lot of issues, it appears to me now, you play their game , or walk away from the relationship. I really care for the GF, but just how much BS do we have to put up with to make a Thai/Farang relationship work.

Post by **BKKSTAN** » February 22, 2007, 6:17 am

The land issue puts the present situation in a better light

It is obvious that your relationship has or is developing to one based on ''how much can we get'' rather than a growing mutual benefit relationship!

This is a common problem in Thai-falang relationships because the initial part of the relationship on her part is security and hopefully liking you,not the emotional infatuation/love and physical attraction on our part!Love is not talked about within the family raising of the daughter as it is in the West.

Communication is the key ingredient in the relationship because of language barriers,sometimes an attitude of rushing into the relationship because of time restraints(meeting the girl while on holiday),loneliness feelings from seperation and attempt at developing the relationship long distance create mistakes that are hard to change later in the relationship(sending money from afar to ''hold on to her''),distorting a natural maturity of the needed closeness!The focus becomes the financial support of the family as they have the most close time and everyday influence on her and your relationship(short distance vs.long distance),plus the have no emotional connection with you!

It really is unfair to you and her to blame her for this development!It doesn't mean that she is a ''bad girl''!But it does mean that your relationship is now a longshot to succeed!The communication needed in the beginning(defining the parameters of the relationship to a complete understanding of most expectations) is very difficult in any relationship because it takes time and thought by both parties without the excessive unchallenged influence /pressure of others ,especially those that have a monetary interest(the family)!It is almost impossible to change the parameters of your relationship now!!!!!I am sure that this is not a consoleing thought for you,but you have to be realistic in your appraisal of the situation!Deception motivated by the family greed dynamics is in control and you are not physically there to have even a half chance at correcting the problem!The problem has spiraled out of your influence for to long!

If it was me,I would have to make the attempt to change things because of the emotional connection on my part!My experience ,personal and that of other falangs expats tells me that it is a losing proposition!But your G/F is the unknown factor to me.Maybe she is capable of breaking the family influence,maybe she is desirous of ''you'' in particular,maybe she has a thinking capability that most ''village'' girls don't have,etc. etc.!But if you are going to present your case long distance,I fear it is doomed!

I wish you the best and although it may sound crass,I want to remind you that there are many girls available in Thailand for you and many second chances to do the relationship right!It is getting past the ''pain'' of the last failure that is the biggest problem

Post by **beer monkey** » February 22, 2007, 6:18 am

well now you mention about the land "scheme",it seems best to knock it all on the head.

Plenty of other girlies out there, not all relationships are built on ripping the farang boy-friend off.

Post by **Doc** » February 22, 2007, 6:21 am

rickus wrote:I really care for the GF, but just how much BS do we have to put up with to make a Thai/Farang relationship work.

It isn't a question of "having" to put up with BS - it is more a question of how much BS are you willing to put up with?

To me, your biggest mistake was being too generous. Once you have created a track record of being as generous as you have been, then you will have a hard time turning back.

rickus wrote:If they are prepared to do this now, just what sort of a burden would they become, after the relationship progresses further.

No burden at all. You won't have any money left and they will all tell you "bye-bye."

Post by **ttom** » February 22, 2007, 7:28 am

I usually try to think twice. Being known as a down to earth person I am not running around with ignorantly closed eyes.

What is wrong with my suggestion? I found out its better taking control by myself instead of being maybe harassed all the time.

A Thai family can hardly live on 4000 TBT monthly income. If you know better, please prove it in detail. I will be very keen to learn. I am pretty sure that some, who disagreed with me, never went shopping lately.

And taking part in a family is also sharing needs. A foreign person receives a significantly higher income; and well above a Thai average. And in both cases, while same working inside or outside of Thailand. Sharing a little of this income – and probably reducing tax along with some allowances is reasonably to me.

If someone is getting into a relationship with someone, and having a baby too, should be well aware that this relationship is an extensive one and will incorporate a whole family. Responsibilities always do need adequately shared attention.

Therefore, before the situation is getting out of hands, I like to act first, think twice and take part. May days are not that easy but I can easily spare family troubles – without paying for anything I don’t like.

For me it works well. I am al the time still below my set budget. The difference I keep aside just I case.

Money is the easiest way to loose both friendship and trust. On the other side, you can neither buy trust nor friendship. Try to do it the Buddhist way and search for the middle path. Your days will be hassle free and happier, even it cost’s you monthly as little as 2000 TBT or so.

Post by **banpaeng** » February 22, 2007, 9:39 am

Good point Tom but a little off kilter. One of these days folks will quit trying to comapare apples to Oranges. What you go shopping for they grow or make. Out in the villages 2 to 4K is plenty. Lots of folks wish they had that type of income. You have to compare middle class to middle class or any class. Maybe by western standards some are poor. My wifes family by western standards are poor. By Thai they are very middle class. They own land, farm it, have 3 to 10 employees, own their houses, etc. Sometimes giving starts a trend you will not like. Sure it is not much by your standards but it can sure cause you fits later.

I am not saying not to help. That is what is expected in any family be it the US, European, or Thai. Putting someone on the ATM path will lead to a lot of heart ache.

Post by **rickus** » February 22, 2007, 10:28 am

Ttom, I think you have not read my post correctly, the family are very poor even by Thai standards, I gave and spent on the family and baby well over 5000 baht a month last year between april and october, the GF should have had 70,000 baht in the bank towards the childs future needs, she has 15000 baht left, I suspect the rest of money has gone to the family, ( the brick wall around the house). I fully understand the requirement for her to help the family, but at what point do you draw the line.??? It is easy to hold a relationship together, if you are prepared to throw money at it, especially in Thailand. I am well prepared to help the family, within the context of a Thai budget, but I will not put myself into a position where I feel I am being abused and used as an ATM. The family survived before I came along, and they still will, long after I have gone. It is the double dipping that has me worried, money and support from me and also pressuring the GF for what she has put aside for the child.

Post by **Doc** » February 22, 2007, 10:30 am

ttom wrote:A Thai family can hardly live on 4000 TBT monthly income. If you know better, please prove it in detail. I will be very keen to learn. I am pretty sure that some, who disagreed with me, never went shopping lately.

A Thai family - especially one living in the country villages - can easily live on 4,000 or less per month. They have been doing that for years. If I go shopping and purchased only according to my needs and not my wants, then my shopping bills would be dramatically lowered.

ttom wrote:And taking part in a family is also sharing needs.[/b]

Differentiating between "needs" and "wants" is important and difficult. In your initial post you were appealing to "wants" and potential "wants" rather than dealing specifically with needs.

ttom wrote:A foreign person receives a significantly higher income; and well above a Thai average. Sharing a little of this income

Post by **BobHelm** » February 22, 2007, 10:34 am

average Thai monthly wages

This is average across the country, can expect more in BKK & less in the North East...

Family pressure

Family pressure

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