Bar girl advice for stupid farang...

[Laan Yaa Mo]

You have nothing to be sorry for. It is your life and your decision. It is just sometimes we have to think what the impact of our actions might be on others. Good luck.

[jai yen yen]

Well if this is the case and I am in the wrong, Im sorry. I guess I have a lot to learn about Thailand. Maybe i should stick to what I know. Thanks for the input.

You are not wrong, sin sod is a Thai thing, you are not Thai. If she wants a Thai lifestyle let her marry Khun Somchai. Western cultures do not pay sin sod but the brides family usually pays the wedding costs. Did you ask for that,no you did not. Paying the family 10,000 a month is quite an expense, I would not commit to that. I married a nice Thai lady and we discussed these things before we were married and we are doing great, ten years now. I have helped her mom a little through some tough times but I would never commit to another permanent payment. My wife has a very good life now and has never complained. Don't fall into their bs trap.

[Udon Map]

Paying the family 10,000 a month is quite an expense, I would not commit to that.

Depends on how you look at it. 10,000 baht is USD $317. Not really all that much for someone who's worked his whole life in the U.S. and is collecting social security. And compared to living in the U.S. with an American wife, a bargain, IMO.

Regarding the sin sod, it's not uncommon here to pay the requested amount for the ceremony in order to allow the family to save face with the rest of the village; then the parents return a large part of it to you afterwards. There has to be a certain level of trust, obviously, for that to work.

[trubrit]

I think it would have been better to offer nothing. You see giving 100,000 baht in front of friends and family in the village would be a huge insult. Even poor farmers can usually give 200,000 baht. In other words, to offer 100,000 baht would demonstrate stinginess and show that you were not serious about the lady. The monthly offer to the family is generous, but you embarrass her and her family with the paltry amount of sin sod in the eyes of the villagers. This is why she had to say no. Don't just consider your feelings, have some regard for her too.

The fact that she was a bar girl has nothing to do with it. What matters is how you feel about one another.

I know you recently married so must be talking from experience LYM, but I have to disagree with your comments, my Thai wifes daughter married a Thai business man just 5 years ago. She was 22 never married no kids , educated good job. I wasn't too happy about the whole sin sod thing so kept out of negotiations. The father of the groom offered 100k which was about my estimate to put on the sort of party sufficent to give face to both sides, I might add the father was a retired govt official, the mother a retired head mistress, no way near a poor farming family and the guest list reflected that .In fact the party cost approx 150k, but the envelopes from guests contained a further 100k, so there was a 50k surplus which was given to the newly weds to start married life with .In this area it was considered "A good do"Most other sin sods seem to be about the 50k mark plus a bit of gold, borrowed for the occasion, which is hastily returned to the shop next day .As the "father" of the bride this compares very favourably with my expenditure when my English daughter married over 30 years ago, so I was quite chuffed .

[StupidFarang]

Paying the family 10,000 a month is quite an expense, I would not commit to that.

Depends on how you look at it. 10,000 baht is USD $317. Not really all that much for someone who's worked his whole life in the U.S. and is collecting social security. And compared to living in the U.S. with an American wife, a bargain, IMO.

Regarding the sin sod, it's not uncommon here to pay the requested amount for the ceremony in order to allow the family to save face with the rest of the village; then the parents return a large part of it to you afterwards. There has to be a certain level of trust, obviously, for that to work.

Well Udon Map...lets just say that after getting to know her parents a little im pretty confident that i would never see a single bath returned. I helped them quite a lot, both financial and otherwise. But never a simple thank you has ever been spoken. Not that im too hung up about this, but just a minimum of appreciation would be most welcome.I guess the welfare of their daughter is of last concern too, as long as the money comes rolling in.

I would be happy to put 400 000 on the table with no worries if this was the case. She could easily have solved the situation by telling me this, but there were no mentioning of it. And I think i know the reason.

Dont get me wrong, im not bitter or angry, i just dont't get the logic behind this. Who wouldn't prefer long term financial security over a quick payout? I guess we're different in that way.

[glalt]

There are a lot of good informative posts in this thread. Some from happy guys and others from bitter guys. There are not a whole lot of logical posts. Let's face the fact that your girlfriend/wife likely came from a very poor family. If she falls in love with a broke phony farang, she is not worth having. She should be looking for a man who can support her. Love is way over rated. Security and a kind thoughtful mate are the most important things. Then there are at least two fatal faults in Thai women. First is if she gambles, run away, not just walk away. She is addicted and will never give it up. Second is insane jealousy. It may seem cute at first but it will kill any relationship. She may be able to give up drugs and alcohol but she will always gamble and be jealous. Don't rule out bar girls. Two of my good friends married bar girls and both couples have been happily married for more than 12 years. The third friend married a simple farm girl and they too have been happily married for about 20 years. All three couples still live here in Thailand.

Maybe the most dangerous thing is being obsessed with young eye candy. A young lady marrying an old man is obviously a recipe for disaster. Very few work out. Many years ago a wise educated Thai man told me that the old rule for a successful marriage is half your age plus 7 years. He said that Thai people will not think you are a fool and the chances for success are fairly good, at least as good as the percentage of failed marriages.

When I was a young man back in farang land, I married a jealous virgin. The big mistake was that she had no experience at real life and apparently wondered what she had missed out on. She turned out to be a genuine slut. Unlike Thai bar girls she gave it away rather than being paid for it. Sin sot is a Thai thing and Thai men pay it also. The bigger the pile the bigger the face. Often arrangements are made in advance where the money and gold are on the table and after the ceremony, most of the money and gold is given back to the groom. Also quite often the family will give the couple land to build a house and maybe also build the house for them. The money and gold are often borrowed. That is another plus for finding an older lady. There usually is no sin sot especially if she has children.

The best test is to live with your chosen one for a minimum of 6 months and even better for a year. They are excellent actresses but after being with them 24/7 a minimum of 6 months, the warts will come out. At best, always have a plan "B". Never put all your eggs in one basket. One never knows for sure. After being married to my Thai wife for more than 12 years, I still have a plan "B". I could be thrown out tomorrow and still have a roof over my head and not miss any meals.

[arjay]

SF, Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, but If she is a farmer's daughter with no education then even 100K is too much. If she had a university education, was employed, or had great employment prospects, then yes, 100K plus could be argued.

Judging by her reaction and responses it sounds like she was simply after the money. If she really loved you, one would expect her to explain, negotiate, plead, cajole, etc. If face was a big issue for her and her family, then she could have offered things like cash back after the ceremony. It sounds to me that she sees you as an investment and wants the pay off sooner, rather than later.

[neeemu]

I've been married for 10 years and the father in law never asked for a penny. Anyone with any sense would of seen that as a warning sign!

[skinner]

Sin sod for a bar girl, you can not be serious.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

plus a bit of gold, borrowed for the occasion, which is hastily returned to the shop next day .

I forgot about the gold 555

There seems to be a misconception that Thai men, and Lao men for that matter, do not pay sin sod to previously married women with or without children. This is not true. I know many Thai/Lao men who have paid sin sod to previously married women. For example, one Lao man who works in sales and plays football for a club gave gold, and mucho sin sod to a 40+ year old lady with 3 grown children from a previous marriage. In the end, it is up to you. As to a set rule about sin sod, there is none. You and the prospective bride work that out.

[StupidFarang]

SF, Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, but If she is a farmer's daughter with no education then even 100K is too much. If she had a university education, was employed, or had great employment prospects, then yes, 100K plus could be argued.

Judging by her reaction and responses it sounds like she was simply after the money. If she really loved you, one would expect her to explain, negotiate, plead, cajole, etc. If face was a big issue for her and her family, then she could have offered things like cash back after the ceremony. It sounds to me that she sees you as an investment and wants the pay off sooner, rather than later.

Your correct, typical Isaan farmers girl. 6 years elementary. But she is a smart girl, actually i am very impressed how quick she picks up new things! Just doesnt have the level of knowledge as most of us here have. But theres lacking on the logic side...or shall i say different from mine hehe.
Im disappointed in the reaction i got. As you say this could easily have been solved if it was about village face. But a hands down no took me by a complete surprise. I regret i did not have the talk before. This could have ended a long time ago then.

[BJS]

Its all about face and greed. The sin sod.
I put down 250.000 baht and all the little old ladys from the suburb ( not village) smiled and took pictures of the money and mum had a big face.
When the wedding was over i got it back.
Give mum 25.000.. she worked hard for weeks planing the wedding so she got paid for that..
With my thai family i have seen 3 weddings.
One guy aged 23..who has got money ,so he paid 400,000. Sin sod to a city girl.
They lasted 2 years.
He married again to farm girl paid 300,000.
They lasted 1 year.

Cousin #2 .not rich just middle class.
He paid 100,000 .for a village girl.
And the wedding sin sod was argued over for months..wedding was on and off on so falang or Thai you got to agree and pay or walk away.

[StupidFarang]

She is still home at my place because im at work and im not coming home before friday. And I have to drive her to the airport, shes not good with public transport in my country just yet. She's scared she'll end up in the wrong place.
Just because i was curious, i asked her what happens with the sin sod after the wedding. Do your parents keep it? In the hope that i have misunderstood the whole thing. The answer was clear: Yes, of course! So thats the answer to that..hehe.

[thaiguzzi]

Sin sod for a bar girl, you can not be serious.

Just another typical high and mighty Expat response from a person who thinks he knows everything, but actually knows nothing about the region or it's culture.
What's being a bar girl, or single mother or age got to do with sin sot? Or level of education?
More or less? Or none at all?
Thai -Thai weddings in the villages I've seen as little as 30k (recently - virgin 16 y/o still at school, lovely girl, piss poor family and the boy she loves family equally piss poor) to as much as 250k for a single parent mid 20's, already been married twice.
There's generalizations for you, so what's your point, except to belittle a custom you can't fathom...
Me, I didn't pay anything because the mother didn't want anything, she could of, she certainly could have done with extra money, and if asked I would have happily obliged.
Nor was there a wedding party, let alone a white wedding. Our family aint into face, and as the missus says, after being to a couple of Felang-Thai "white weddings" with all the farkles and bling, "what's the point", "why waste money on a show", better spend the money on something for the future.

[jimjay]

Stay tuned for the next plot twist which will alter the course of the thread back to active advice mode.

[skinner]

Sin sod for a bar girl, you can not be serious.

Just another typical high and mighty Expat response from a person who thinks he knows everything, but actually knows nothing about the region or it's culture.
What's being a bar girl, or single mother or age got to do with sin sot? Or level of education?
More or less? Or none at all?
Thai -Thai weddings in the villages I've seen as little as 30k (recently - virgin 16 y/o still at school, lovely girl, piss poor family and the boy she loves family equally piss poor) to as much as 250k for a single parent mid 20's, already been married twice.
There's generalizations for you, so what's your point, except to belittle a custom you can't fathom...
Me, I didn't pay anything because the mother didn't want anything, she could of, she certainly could have done with extra money, and if asked I would have happily obliged.
Nor was there a wedding party, let alone a white wedding. Our family aint into face, and as the missus says, after being to a couple of Felang-Thai "white weddings" with all the farkles and bling, "what's the point", "why waste money on a show", better spend the money on something for the future.

High and mighty Expat ?? No Think I know everything ?? No Know nothing about the region and its culture. yes I do, but that doesn't make me a mug.

[felixcat]

There is a saying" "You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl".
For many of us, we did the "Internet Dating" thing. Right guys? Thats OK, it gives you a face and time to get to know her and try to "trap" her in lies (but she will also trap some of you in "lies" if you are a fake). It goes both ways...
I would rather be married to an "OK" girl than the "dream girl" that is just a dream, than be single.

[MrFixer]

When I married my wife a few years back the SinSod was not really discussed. In the end, as the wedding day approached, I was a bit concerned the parents might lose face, so I volunteered 50k THB, which everybody seemed OK with.
For the wedding itself I just told the family that good Buddhists should not drink alcohol and I felt it might bring bad luck if people got drunk at the wedding - so no alcohol. A few people looked a bit disappointed, but it all went rather well in the end and was not expensive (less than 5000 THB).
I do not give the family money - my wife earns some money and gives them a few 1000's THB from time to time. I have also paid for some improvements to my wife's house (windows and concrete for the drive) - maybe 150k THB - its fair enough though because I do live there too!

The OP's offer of 10k a month to the parents seems generous to me - its quite a committment in the long term. I suspect this girls maybe playing a game of brinksmanship and is expecting him to buckle on the way to the airport and cave in to her demands.
Its obvious that a lot of Thai ladies only marry for money - especially where there is a big age difference. I knew a 50 year old English guy. Messy divorce in UK but had a good income from a business. Came to Thailand and quickly hooked up with a 23 year old in Pattaya (Udon girl distantly related to my wife). Now I knew this girl and always felt she was ideal wife material - fairly quiet, sweet and honest. Anyway, he married her and then over about three years built the house, bought the truck, bought a lot of land etc. Probably more than 5M THB. On the fourth year she decided she wasn't happy with him and went back to Pattaya. I was amazed - she and the family had everything on a gilded platter. I really didn't think she was that kind of girl. The only indication of trouble that I had was that they didn't seem to talk much - she was of a different generation and was always playing on her phone - she was quite immature by Western standards.
He's gone now and mum and dad live in the house and farm the land... She's in a gogo in Pattaya last I heard.

[jimjay]

I suspect this girls maybe playing a game of brinkmanship and is expecting him to buckle on the way to the airport and cave in to her demands.

I'm thinking this too. Or that she'll cave to his. Or he'll "break" a few weeks after she's gone, or she'll break once back, they'll somehow decide to re-unite, and that'll be the next theme of the thread. But then she becomes pregnant "too fast", seems odd timing, more guesswork, more advice needed, stay tuned!

Seems to borrow from chapters of the Chris Pirozzi / Vitida Vasant book titled "Thailand Fever".

https://thailandfever.com/

You've met the perfect Thai woman. You're dizzy with joy as her exotic world swirls around you. You've heard so many horror stories, but your heart tells you that she's for real. You want to understand her mysterious ways, and you wish she could understand yours.

Now, there's help. Thailand Fever is an astonishing, one-of-a-kind, Thai–-English bilingual exposé of the cultural secrets that are the key to a smooth Thai–Western relationship.

Whether you met in a bar, in a university, or at work, and whether you met last night or decades ago, Thailand Fever covers your issues:

• Trusting Each Other • Sex • It's My Money! • The Parents • The Dowry •
• Privacy • Independence • Saving Face • Living in "Paradise" •

Thailand Fever is the must-have relationship guidebook which lets each of you finally express complex issues by just pointing across the page! Everything in the book is in both English and Thai, on facing pages:

[StupidFarang]

I suspect this girls maybe playing a game of brinksmanship and is expecting him to buckle on the way to the airport and cave in to her demands.

Oh, I can assure you I will not. I may be soft hearted, but I still have my self respect. If I buckle I will hate myself for it. Never going to happen.

I'm thinking this too. Or that she'll cave to his. Or he'll "break" a few weeks after she's gone, or she'll break once back, they'll somehow decide to re-unite, and that'll be the next theme of the thread. But then she becomes pregnant "too fast", seems odd timing, more guesswork, more advice needed, stay tuned!

Well, she already did. But it is too late, as she has revealed her true self. Instead of being happy for what i offered, she made a scene. To come back later and say sorry. But now the original offer is off the table. And there will be no sequel, no pregnancy. Thank you for the link btw jimjay.

And thanks to everyone for the advice I have been given. Its not easy when you're clueless, and the only person you think you can trust and get advice from is mainly concerned about money. Thank you all.