Love or Money?

[laphanphon]

just looking for young and handsome

hey Val, we talking about the same person. i thought i was the only young and handsome man in udon, besides you.

on this topic, i am also split as many of us are. being on both sides of the fence on this issue, i've seen/experienced the worst, and sometimes seeming the norm, and the best, which all of us, men and women search and want, true love. it's a tough nut to crack. and sadly, some find just that, and as mention, family pressure and other factors screw up what could of been. luckily, i think i just found the latter, finally.

the odds are stacked against us. especially if not living here. cultural, economics, language, and distance, if not living here will kill a relationship, even if started with best intentions. add to that, the medling of family and friends and you are doomed. but hang in there, every smile is an opportunity for love.

[Dakoda]

but I believe that if most women over here were wealthy then they would probaby not bother with us.

and I would say here could be any city/country on earth

[Alagrl]

Dakoda, you just hit on something huge.

I (and many, many of my Anglo counterparts) spent a great deal of time, effort and money obtaining university degrees, building a career, marrying and having children, not necessarily in that order but close. In the US, 50% of these marriages failed. Many of us did not marry again, and I believe it was largely because the economic necessity was no longer there (I waited 18 years to marry again). Those of us in the "professional" category who have married again have done so overwhelmingly as a love match, and we bring as many assets to the marriage as does the man.

But this is representative of a minute percentage of the women in the world. Unless a woman has inherited family money IN HER OWN CONTROL, she is pressured by the circumstances of her culture and socioeconomic situation to consider security and money as a factor in any marriage commitment.

So, it might be a very interesting question for a man to ask himself --

"If she had money of her own, what qualities do I have that would make her want me?"

If she's not interested in your good looks, scintillating conversation, dance moves, gourmet cooking, sexual athletics, etc., etc. -- one might want to accept that providing security (money) to her and the children is one of her life priorities, and THAT'S OKAY.

[FrazeeDK]

My thoughts are that how a Thai marrying a Farang thought 30 plus years ago and how younger Thai women think today is definitely aeons apart. Like younger folks in the western world, Thais today mature much much faster, and, with the constant exposure to media and western culture are more cosmopolitan than years ago.. And so the times have changed.
This of course leads to one of the downside of capitalism; rampant consumerism, which translates to "money, money, money, now now now!" This is merely a generality but I think it has merit. My observations of numerous younger Thais shows me hat "face", 'expensive cell-phones", "fancy clothes", and flashing cash or ATM cards is rampant. A quick walk through the Complex, Big C or Lotus shows scads of girls fitting the description.. If the Thai economy continues to move ahead, all boats will rise on the flood. It won't be too much longer before there are even more cars rather than motorcycles vamping around town with teens tricking them out with "bling"..

[Alagrl]

Great point, Dave. It will be interesting to see how these late teens and early 20's consumers adjust to marriage, which will look quite different than their parents' marriages. Will these young women expect their new Thai husbands to maintain the standard of living to which they have become accustomed -- partying, bling, clothes, etc? Or having a better education, do they expect to work? Will marriage change their priorities to a house and children as they mature?

Not very different from the questions we're asking as we look at our own young adult children.

[saimfevernow]

Something is perplexing to me in Vals situation, although I admire his wifes honesty. What happened to hard times you and your wife working through them?

I asked my wife the same question, at first she thought I was kidding answer get another man. When she figured out I was not kidding it was I will stay with you and get a job. Well maybe but certianly not possible simply to meet the financial responsibilties for visa's.

But I hope and hope is the key word, that when I become ill and in the process of croaking the wife sticks it out with me. Now that I have seen this more then once since I have been here, especially with all the olders guys in the VFW. My situation is very different then Vals in that we have no children and the wifes parents are both deceased. So no real close family ties involved.

Now unlike Val my wife does not go out of her way to show me love everyday, it happens when it happens. But often enough for me. Is she with me for security of course, does she abuse the financial windfall she got, no.

I think there is a big difference between being a walking ATM machine and the family bread winner. Isn't that basically what we all did before retirement why would that aspect of life be surprising now?

I see guy here without large sums of money and many of them work for teachers wages, they are not abandoned by thier wifes or girlfriends over money. I also know several couples where the wife still works and the farrang husband does not. Hardly a walking ATM situation.

I don't think anything involving human beings is ever that easily filed away in a convient folder.

Lee if you think your getting asked tough questions as to your financial abilities here you should try dating in L.A. where I came from.

let me give you a little run down, of course you have to meet somewhere where the coffee is ten bucks a pop. A place that she never goes unless someone else is paying. Better show up in a car that costs in the neighborhood of 40K. Your not earning in the six figures, your probably not going to get anywhere. Then the interview continues, do you own a house a condo or at least living somewhere where yor paying 3K a month for rent. Now you have to commit to he that you will be avialble at her call anytime night or day. Of coures your hair must be styled perfectly, you have to have an excellent tan and you must spend at least six hours a week in the gym, don't drink excessivley unles they want to party and never never smoke. Be ready to listen everything any hairy legged guy has ever done to her wrong in her life and be perpared to pay for each of those acts yourself, afterall somebody has to.

I dated usually at least once a week, now I had to go through that to date somebodies GRANDMOTHER. Personally I find it much more simple, rewarding and fun to provide a bit of financial security to my wife then to go that game anymore.

I married for love three times all of which resulted in divorce, which means that I have now rebuilt my life four times, one of the reason I'm not a rich man today. Not one of those ladies were Thai. So someone want to explain how it is we think that we come here and everything is going to be perfect. I don't see it relationships are just as complex here as they are anywhere.

By the way I have a new marrriage vow these days, until death do us part or the court renders it's verdict.

Yep there are those that regard us as walking ATM's, Vals wife does not sound like that at all. So I guess the question remains is why would you stay with a woman and then marry a woman that treated like a walking ATM, in the first place.

Most times in life you have choices, in this one you certainly do.

So back to the old simple UP TO YOU

[yorkman]

Something is perplexing to me in Vals situation, although I admire his wifes honesty. What happened to hard times you and your wife working through them?

Now unlike Val my wife does not go out of her way to show me love everyday, it happens when it happens

I also know several couples where the wife still works and the farrang husband does not. Hardly a walking ATM situation.

I don't think anything involving human beings is ever that easily filed away in a convient folder.

Yep there are those that regard us as walking ATM's, Vals wife does not sound like that at all. So I guess the question remains is why would you stay with a woman and then marry a woman that treated like a walking ATM, in the first place.

Most times in life you have choices, in this one you certainly do.

So back to the old simple UP TO YOU

Edited for the essence of what was being said, but I cannot argue with any of the remainder above.

If you go into a marriage with the view "I am to be respected because by pure accident of birth, I have had more opportunity, and thus have more money, so THAT makes me better" then sooner or later you will get your comeuppance.

My wife was poorer than me monetarily when we met, but she certainly has more riches in her soul. Anyway..being a woman, its all her money now

[valentine]

Something is perplexing to me in Vals situation, although I admire his wifes honesty. What happened to hard times you and your wife working through them?

I asked my wife the same question, at first she thought I was kidding answer get another man. When she figured out I was not kidding it was I will stay with you and get a job. Well maybe but certianly not possible simply to meet the financial responsibilties for visa's.





.

I don't think anything involving human beings is ever that easily filed away in a convient folder.




Most times in life you have choices, in this one you certainly do.

So back to the old simple UP TO YOU

Well a rather interesting but lengthy perspective, so I have curtailed my reply to a few points.
Yes each one of us would have our own folder and I don't think any two would be the same.As for choices , yes we are all individuals and make our own. For me if misfortune arose, I would want to cope with it on my own. I certainly wouldn't want to inflict it on my wife and young children. We have a very open relationship and I have told her i will actively help her to find a new benefactor, then take off into the sunset.You see I am considerably older than her. My life is nearing its end, she still has, hopefully, at least another 50% to go.But, you see , my circumstances are totally different to the younger forumites. I no longer have to earn an income. It is fixed and guaranteed for the most part, in pensions and investments.So maybe her answer could have been said in a lighter note knowing it is unlikely to happen My cause for concern was more regarding illness, mine. If I was seriously, long term sick, I would want her to get on with her life, not lumbered with taking care of me.Why should I drag hers and the kids lives down. I've had my time, its been great fun for the most part and I would want her to get on and enjoy hers to.
On a more general note. Younger people have more question marks still unresolved in their lives, work, income, family , housing and on and on, these all lead to a certain insecurity which manifests itself in worries. Will my wife leave me , being a major one. So when you ask your partner will you stay with me if I had no money, of course she is going to say yes, firstly, you still have, so why worry about something that hasn't happened, especially true with a Thai partner.The question that you should ask, of yourself, not her is. Will she be able to stay with me if Ive got no money. I will be another burden for her in addition to the numerous family commitments most Thais have?Maybe a truer measure of your love would be, if you could say.I'll get out of her life.
Food for thought, but as you said we all live in different cicumstances.

[simon57]

Thanks for the replies everyone, this topic has created some interesting posts and varied opinions.

[jingjai]

[
Maybe this is why face is very important in Thai society; bottles of Jonnie Walker Black Label, big tips, flashy cars all go a long way in the dating game. Arrive at one of the local discos with a bottle of sangsom, flip-flops and shorts and most of the women won't give you a second look, unless of course you're extremely good looking, in this instance it's probably more about love than money.

Lee,
You forgot to mention other turn offs with the girls in Udon.
A green plate pickup (Two Doors) Banock Benz
Plastic watch
Turning up outside Tawan Dang on a 125cc Honda
Swinging your pants in any Disco over the age of 35
Wearing a Singha Beer vest

Tony

Wow Lee and Tony, you may have discovered the way to find out if a lady is interested in you more than your money! I'd post more, but I just looked at my plastic watch, so I have to go, and get in my two-door pickup truck and get to the bank before it close's. I'll probably laugh all the way to the bank. At least I can say I drink good scotch.

[valentine]

[
e]

L

Tony

Wow Lee and Tony, you may have discovered the way to find out if a lady is interested in you more than your money! I'd post more, but I just looked at my plastic watch, so I have to go, and get in my two-door pickup truck and get to the bank before it close's. I'll probably laugh all the way to the bank. At least I can say I drink good scotch.

Not at my house you didn;t. Sorry that was my Mon_ Fri blend. It does get better at the weekend Val

[aznyron]

after being burned from a thai lady of 49 yrs of age which I thought I was safe hahaha I learned this lesson only give them what you can afford to lose because you will lose it 2 if you buy them a expensive gift like a car or a house mortgage it for as long as possible because in the end you will no longer live in it as for a vehicle you might have some leverage there but in the end she will own it or you will buy it from her unless you can pay cash and have it in your name only Yes I have a young girl with me now 29 yrs old I am 69 I know my place and I am comfortable but remember what Ronald Reagan said to Gorby TRUST but VERIFY

[Galee]

Way to go Aznyron. Good on yer mate.

P.S. If you need any Cialis I know where to get some cheap.

[Bump]

You knopw I don;t knw wha it is but the super youn ones, and the over forty ladies seem to want it it all and right now. Exceptions to every rule I know. But just seeing what friends went through with ladies over 40 made me gun shy. My experience with the 23 year olds did the same. the wife was 29 when we met and she just seemed very different. No rush content with things as they were, even really questioned me when I asked her to marry.

Maybe it was just her, or maybe it was the right maturity level without imstant demands, I have no idea.

[valentine]

You knopw I don;t knw wha it is but the super youn ones, and the over forty ladies seem to want it it all and right now. Exceptions to every rule I know. But just seeing what friends went through with ladies over 40 made me gun shy. My experience with the 23 year olds did the same. the wife was 29 when we met and she just seemed very different. No rush content with things as they were, even really questioned me when I asked her to marry.

Maybe it was just her, or maybe it was the right maturity level without imstant demands, I have no idea.

Well the very young are aware of their market value and the older ones realise they are getting near their sell by date.

[Bump]

Yep that makes since, at 29 they look 23 anyway I first met the wife the guys had dicided I was a child molestor she looked so darn young, still does really. But yes money was a the original motivator, but in a very different way, pure security.

When I was single I always looked at the 23 year old as a it was great test drive in a corvette through a unofficial rental program. It was fun but nothing I wanted on a long term basis. sometimes I mis then I reebe the cell phones trips to the cosmetic counter and buy me a motorcycle, usually on the first contact. Never longer then a week. Hence three day Ray

[jetdoc]

The experience with my wife is somewhat similar to ray23's. She was 26 when we met and 27 when we married and is now 29. Had prior experience with one 39, wanted money right now, so didn't work. Another 27, didn't ask for money to much but it was like, okay you can have sex when you want, but I won't participate. In all honesty when I ask my wife to marry it was financially motivated. Saves me about $4500 a year in taxes, which is somewhat less than the basic maintenance (free pussy? probably not!). She never asks for money and a lot of times when I offer (like when she takes motor bike to get something to eat) she will say "no I have". Life is good you gatta love these Thai ladies.

[marjamlew]

when I met my first thai gf she was 27 and I was 28. we were together for 8 years and in that time I once loaned her 10,000B to stop the repo man taking her car (she was always in some kind of debt). she paid me back about 4 months later. we shared everything 50-50 except for when she was in Australia on a tourist visa and I was working. we bothed worked the whole time we were together and she didn't need my money so I guess that one was love. albeit love that burned out.
the jury is still out on the new tgf. we haven't spent enough time together yet for me to say anything definative. although I am quietly confident that her feelings, as expressed, are genuine. this time there is an 10 year age difference and she is 29 (that age bracket again).
between girlfriends I went to a lot of bars in a lot of places and met a few girls whilst they were plying their trade. most of them told me they loved me very much too. i had a fair idea that their love was very much dependent upon how i often my wallet opened and nothing to do with my wit, looks or charm. and i would have thought that was just common sense.

i spose we can only speak about our own experiences and about what we have observed while in thailand. generally i reckon there are more thai-farang relationships that are based on money, as opposed to love. but surely this is universal.

[jetdoc]

"generally i reckon there are more thai-farang relationships that are based on money, as opposed to love. but surely this is universal."

I feel the last 5 words says it all. I have known of relationships where neither person had a hook to hang a hat or a pot to pee in and yet they stayed together, had to be true love. Myself, I married my wife for her money, seems to have been a good choice, the longer we are together the richer she gets;o)

[Harry1534]

For a different take on love in Thailand read 'Bangkok Kiss'. Money vs love. A story that will leave you weeping in your beer. Well, maybe!