Sin Sod, marry in udon

[Mr Natural]

[quote="KHONDAHM"]
In summary, change the paradigm to something you understand. Ring not needed. Ring price = sin sod amount. [quote]

That's a great analogy Kohndam, but Jackspratts right. There are certain factors that go into determining sinsod amount. Ask any Thai.

[quote="KHONDAHM"]She's not a car. Are the tires new? Previously owned? Leather or cloth interior?, etc. etc.[quote]


I prefer slightly used cars, better value for the money and already been through the break in period.

[KHONDAHM]

That's a great analogy Kohndam, but Jackspratts right. There are certain factors that go into determining sinsod amount.

The difference is in the perspective by which one determines how much is "fair" to offer. One can think of it as a bargaining process where one is interested in getting the best deal and therefore go through the adding and subtracting for this or that (and I am not saying there is anything wrong with that - up to you). Or one can think of it as they would a normal engagement or marriage decision in one's own country - in my reply, I suggest offering what one would normally spend on an engagement and/or wedding ring in one's own country.

Either way SHOULD work and arrive at about the same amount if both parties are sincere and honest. However, using the method I suggested should lead to more peace of mind for the falang and satisfaction for the bride's family.

If the falang is more concerned about getting a bargain and wants to deduct for mileage, dents, and scratches, well... IMHO that says a whole lot about his intentions, but to each their own. Would one think that way about a woman in his own country and get a cheaper ring if she was married before or had kids? Would he buy a bigger ring BECAUSE she has an MBA versus a BA or GED? Believe me - I have seen more than a few marriages fall apart that started as a "deal" rather than him giving her the same consideration as he would a woman in his own country. They know the difference.

Ask any Thai.

Errr...ah...my Thai wife, family, and Thai friends agree with me 1 zillion percent. In fact, we all discuss the gossip all the time. CRAZY what some falang are doing and offering. Believe you me...the bride's village, family, and friends are often giggling. All agree that the determination method I suggested would be seen as fair to all (again, assuming all parties are sincere and honest).

Just my song-baht.

Cheers!

[maaka]

after meeting my thai g/f ( who is divorced with 3 kids, 3 houses and extra land, and was No 2 on the hospital staff), and going thru all the lovey dovey stuff, returning back home to close up shop, and then fly back again to live and marry her. Her Papa summoned me to the house that first night back..He spoke english but not this night. He asked me one question. Did I have a job. Well no I just leave my job, so can come hear to live and marry..no more was said, the meeting was over and I went away confused.I thought you said papa want to talk to me? my g/f gave me the slient treatment, and the family whispered for days around me..

in the end I asked what the heck was going on, papa say you no respect the family, what you mean ? what I do wrong? if you want marry me mama and papa want 100,000, I want 200,000 join bank account, 100,000 for wedding clothes, 200,000 you pay my mortage off... what, that is $24,000 in my money just to marry you oyiiiiiiiiii... why you no tell me this before I come back...I not have that kind of money in my whole life, and it would take me years just to save that. ..we think you have money..No no you wrong. you see where I live, what clothes I wear etc etc.. sorry I will not pay your mortage, you have plenty of hand and house to sell to pay your own mortage......I was asked to leave the next day..so much for love..

I ended up becoming close friends with a well to do thai family in Udon. They speak english well enough and have family in america. The son and his thai financee came to visit from america, and she asked me how I had come to meet her inlaws, so i told the sorry tale. her first question was did you barter?. No..ohhh you must barter.. 600,000 was way to much, 100,000 is more like it..she silly woman, if she love you she will have better life and her family too....anyway you go find another good woman, many about..

It broke my heart, but I am glad I found out the type of woman my ex g.f was before I married her...

[maaka]

Ps. her price I believe was to do with her status as No 2 in a hospital.. she couldnt have a cheap man, and a cheap wedding in front of her fellow colleagues..

[homer]

Holy Sh#t Maaka! Divorced with 3 kids and she wanted how much? I don't care if the woman can shoot sparks out her ass in the marriage chamber, there is no way I would be paying 600,000 baht! How old was she anyways? My understanding of sin sod is that it is for a first time to the altar for her, and I thought I saw someone post here that she was suppose to be a virgin. It's a one time thing. I have to tell you, I am currently seeing a lady who just turned 44 yrs old, divorced 3 years, with 2 kids(18 & 11) I would like to marry her very much a wee bit down the road, but if her mother insists on sin sod, that is a deal breaker. I will provide her with the security of a beautiful home, and make sure her kids get a good education if they choose to. Some people might call sin sod tradition, I call it extortion. She better be wanting to marry me for love and not what she thinks I can provide monetarily for her family or there won't be a marriage, simple as that.

[farangano]

In a far away country deep in the Amazon of South America was an old tradition upon which a man would ask his fiance and her family to pay Ngahaghosoo - a dowry to the fact.

This tradition was introduced to Thailand by a rich farang oil tycoon in 2009. He demanded and prayed and begged the girl to pay Ngahaghosoo - which she did because he was rich and it was seen as an investment - in Thailand mounting to 1.000.000.000.000 THB.

Days after it had been broadcasted on national Thai TV every man in Thailand asked for Ngahaghosoo when a girl wanted to marry him.

Except a few brave guys who believed it to be a stupid old fashioned tradition based on in-equality between man and woman and basic stupidity and greed for money. So they did not ask for any money and they all married and had kids and carried on this tradition of paying nothing and this eventually became the standard in the late 2060th. In the decade of 2180 it eventually was forgotten - Ngahaghosoo.

Kindest

[Mr Natural]

In a far away country deep in the Amazon of South America was an old tradition upon which a man would ask his fiance and her family to pay Ngahaghosoo - a dowry to the fact.

Yes! Give me Nghaghosoo! And a big steamin pile of pancakes! (can you feed it to me, I can't hold a fork while wearing a straight jacket).

[maaka]

sorry Homer didnt see you message until now..it was 600,000 baht and she is 42yr...I thought it was love, she told me she loved me too and all, but obviously not when she and the family told me leave, because I didnt have the money..stupid woman, couldnt see that if she married me, she could live in my country, gain residency, kids could go to university here, and have a bettter life and all that.

should your beloved, or her mama hit you up, then tell mama what you said, that you will provide a beautiful home, and make sure the kids get a good education, etc etc..and therefore you dont think you should provide sin sod..however, most thai women, but not all, expect you to care for her and her family, meaning in financial terms..no money no honey, right..

[farangano]

We must all care for one another - that is the deep meaning of marriage. See your law on marriage and read up on what THAT mean - marriage. No mentioning of "Sin Sod" however - in the law. Mentions in most countries (including Thailand) that caring means equal delivery of money etc. and if one party can not provide then the other most provide. The law and common sense. Sin Sod is ridiculous. Not only money-wise but for better or for worth as well - even the law has something to say on that part.

So if a silly sodded poor (Thai) girl tricks you to pay Sin Sod she has no clue of anything else but ripping you blind and bare. She is most likely a LoSo country girl with very little between her ears but pots of gold. Kick her ass and let her dream of the next gold-rush to happen.

[farangano]

Mr. Natural - yes I shall carry your fork while you are tied up. If you need any assistance we can provide you with the best farang service to untie you. Just blow the whistle and we will get your your aid.

[LoveDaBlues]

We must all care for one another - that is the deep meaning of marriage. See your law on marriage and read up on what THAT mean - marriage. No mentioning of "Sin Sod" however - in the law. Mentions in most countries (including Thailand) that caring means equal delivery of money etc. and if one party can not provide then the other most provide. The law and common sense. Sin Sod is ridiculous. Not only money-wise but for better or for worth as well - even the law has something to say on that part.

So if a silly sodded poor (Thai) girl tricks you to pay Sin Sod she has no clue of anything else but ripping you blind and bare. She is most likely a LoSo country girl with very little between her ears but pots of gold. Kick her ass and let her dream of the next gold-rush to happen.

So, the 10,000's of THAI MEN who paid sinsod have all been tricked by poor country girls? Or perhaps, just maybe, it really is part of the culture/tradition; especially in the Issan region?

[homer]

We must all care for one another - that is the deep meaning of marriage. See your law on marriage and read up on what THAT mean - marriage. No mentioning of "Sin Sod" however - in the law. Mentions in most countries (including Thailand) that caring means equal delivery of money etc. and if one party can not provide then the other most provide. The law and common sense. Sin Sod is ridiculous. Not only money-wise but for better or for worth as well - even the law has something to say on that part.

So if a silly sodded poor (Thai) girl tricks you to pay Sin Sod she has no clue of anything else but ripping you blind and bare. She is most likely a LoSo country girl with very little between her ears but pots of gold. Kick her ass and let her dream of the next gold-rush to happen.

So, the 10,000's of THAI MEN who paid sinsod have all been tricked by poor country girls? Or perhaps, just maybe, it really is part of the culture/tradition; especially in the Issan region?

Blue, I agree that sin sod is a part of Thai tradition, what I have a problem with is what it was originally; e.g. virgin girl marrying first time, sin sod is paid, one time only. What it has become which is farang pay sin sod every time, and in some cases, it's turned into a booming little cottage industry.(your cottage of course :-" ) Look at other Thai traditions like Songkran. Virtually no religious significance anymore, it's just turned into a 3 day waterfight. It, like sin sod, has become a mockery of what it was originally intended to be.

[farangano]

"So, the 10,000's of THAI MEN who paid sinsod have all been tricked by poor country girls? Or perhaps, just maybe, it really is part of the culture/tradition; especially in the Issan region?"

Murder is also a part of the tradition and corruption as well. Does that make it legit and a good part of culture - something to strive for?

No. Sin Sod is a very bad and wrong part of culture equal to fraud.

If something IS part of the culture - like Sin Sod - information should be given about its origin and it old value.

Why don't they stop calling it Sin Sod but call it what it is now as a part of culture in modern Thailand:

Give me some money or no honey - darliniiiing.

Sin Sod is impregnated into the little girl from when she very young probably before she can speak. And when she turn ripe for marriage she is expected to force and make the man deliver some cool hard cash - or she is seen upon as a bad girl. What a rotten culture.

It is not Sin Sod - Sin Sod is used to cover above said facts on greed among women and their families to make easy quick money with no caring of budget or well-to-do of the man nor the women who he will marry.

Is is difficult to comprehend that education of the right kind is so hard to get at when it come to old traditions carried on in a society.

Can someone explain to me if the public Thai schools teach about Sin Sod? If the school does that I will have a very close look at it. If they don't - well, part of culture - barely. Not the official anyway.

But it is Amazing Thailand; amazingly good and bad.

[jackspratt]

I wonder if the local "experts" on sin sod have ever actually discussed it with a Thai, or does all their "wisdom" and "knowledge" come from internet forums, and bar talk?

Just think about it for a moment - a Thai woman (probably with a child) takes on a contract to take care of someone who is generally old, with a totally different value system, the invariable communication difficulties, and has probably enjoyed the fruits of the P4P system that exists here.

In return, the woman is (quite understandably) looking for security from the farang, as his side of the contract.

What form should that security take?

[LoveDaBlues]

I wonder if the local "experts" on sin sod have ever actually discussed it with a Thai, or does all their "wisdom" and "knowledge" come from internet forums, and bar talk?

Just think about it for a moment - a Thai woman (probably with a child) takes on a contract to take care of someone who is generally old, with a totally different value system, the invariable communication difficulties, and has probably enjoyed the fruits of the P4P system that exists here.

In return, the woman is (quite understandably) looking for security from the farang, as his side of the contract.

What form should that security take?

Come on jack; you're using logic now and that's not fair.

I think farangano has it right. A 21 year old Thai sweety is supposed to marry a 65 year old pot-bellied, hairy-back, sweaty, bald farang because she "loves him so much". She should give him all the sex he wants (if he still can), clean the house, and go with him in public so he can show her off (unlike the fat hag he left in (insert country here) that he doesn't want to be seen with). In return he should only have to feed and buy clothes for her. Such a deal!!

Methinks someone got burned and wants to blame "the system" rather than looking at the mirror. :-"

[LoveDaBlues]

Blue, I agree that sin sod is a part of Thai tradition, what I have a problem with is what it was originally; e.g. virgin girl marrying first time, sin sod is paid, one time only. What it has become which is farang pay sin sod every time, and in some cases, it's turned into a booming little cottage industry.(your cottage of course :-" ) Look at other Thai traditions like Songkran. Virtually no religious significance anymore, it's just turned into a 3 day waterfight. It, like sin sod, has become a mockery of what it was originally intended to be.

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Why use the term "farang" and not "groom"? This is a typical mindset of many farang I meet here. They want to make it an "us" (farang) versus "them" (Thai) scenerio. When I see this happening I know it's usually just a matter of time before the explosion occurs.

I attended a wedding in Loei in which I was the only farang present. The groom was Thai and had been married before with 3 children. The bride was Thai and was divorced (can't remember if she had kids). He paid 60k baht sinsod. So.....perhaps the info about virgin girl, etc. may just be a bit faulty?? Once again, do I believe my own eyes or internet banter?

The bottom line. If you don't like steak don't order steak. If you don't like paying sinsod don't pay it. Simple as that.

[jackspratt]

Come on jack; you're using logic now and that's not fair.

I attended a wedding in Loei in which I was the only farang present. The groom was Thai and had been married before with 3 children. The bride was Thai and was divorced (can't remember if she had kids). He paid 60k baht sinsod

Bl00dy hell, LDB - you've got a nerve

Accuse me of using logic, AND being unfair - and then you have the temerity to quote a real live case which totally blows others' arguments out of the water.

No more of that, thanks

[homer]

I, have no first-hand experience such as yourself re: sin sod Blue, but I have enquired into the do's and don'ts of it when the subject came up. The three different Thai men that I've spoken to on different occasions all seemed amused at the idea of paying sin sod for someone that had been previously married. They all said that Thai women sometimes get "farangs" to pay sin sod regardless of the circumstance, but it was not necessary if the lady had been married before. Two of the three guys gave me the "virgin" scenario. These are reputable men, who I consider friends, and I have no reason to believe that they would BS me. Just as a footnote, an acquaintance of my fiancee asked me shortly after I'd given my lady her engagement ring, if I knew that sin sod was one million baht and if I was prepared to pay it. I told her politely that I didn't think it was her place to bring the subject up and that I wasn't prepared to discuss it with her, now or ever. So, given my somewhat limited information(comparatively) on the subject,(including this forum) if you put yourself in my shoes for a moment Blue, what conclusion (mindset??) would you come to?

[homer]

Just for the record Blue, I plan on spending many happy years living in Thailand (hopefully in the near future) [-o< if I had the üs"versus "them" mindset, the last thing I'd be considering would be a move there.

[LoveDaBlues]

homer - I think you're viewing my post as a sort of "rebuttal" on this sinsod issue. That's not my intent; I'm only showing there are many different opinions and experiences which can make this issue a bit complex.

I don't believe in any "guidelines" when it comes to the issure of sinsod. What I do believe is that each case is unique as each individual is unique. I believe the more real-life experiences one has can better help him shape an opinion of what he should/shouldn't pay with regard to sinsod.

I didn't pay sinsod nor was it ever requested by my wife or her parents. Their only request was that I take care of their daughter. Any monies I have spent on the wife and inlaws have been done freely. No arm twisting involved. I'm just happy I can provide them a better life. Having said I didn't personally pay sinsod doesn't mean I'm against it. I think it's appropriate in certain cases; with each situation being unique.

I'm well past the sinsod stage. You can only decide what's best for you based on all the different inputs and your own mind/heart. I hope the decision you make proves to be the correct one.

I'm planning on spending the rest of my days here. Things haven't always been rosy in my 4.5 years here. However, on balance it's been better than the USA. Once the house is finished and a few other things fall into place I think I'll be quite content; but none of us has a crystal ball do we?