My wife's father like boxing - so boxing me was no problem.

[beer monkey]

Agreed papaG and saint....i don't think Val even read the topic.

[saint]

Agreed papaG and saint....i don't think Val even read the topic.

well if this is the case , he should not come out with sweeping statements , judging and critisising other posters who have bothered to read it .

[BKKSTAN]

Aptly put saint!!!It is a poor parent indeed that concerns himself with trying to get thanks from a child as his motivation for wanting the best for the child.Sometimes ,that just might means an opportunity that the child might or might not take advantage of,but as a parent ,we should do the best we can for the child!
Unappreciative,is a learned personality trait,not a genetic disposition!If you feel abandoned,unwanted,unprotected,afraid and angry as a child,it is hard to trust anyone or feel appreciative.

Children don't often feel apreciative anyway,even though some are taught to dutifully say thank you!

I would do whatever was necessary to save my child from harms way,the last thing I would do is cut and run because it wasn't convenient and I didn't want to squander my few remaining years of possible pleasures at the expense of a child that I am responsible for!

I pulled that ---- in my first marriage when I was emotionally immature and had the inability to put my selfish needs second to being a father and husband!

[Ter]

Well I would like to chip in here, many years ago I married an Italian woman and moved to southern Italy, we had a son about three years old and all was good. One day my wife decided to become a jehova's witness and I did not, after a long time wrangling with this we parted in similar ways to the O Poster I left those shores and fought a legal battle to look after my son all to no avail, I was threatened will jail and expulsion, I went back after four years to try again, though still the same and so was the legal corruption. It broke my heart to hear my son say in later years why I did not do more to take him even if it meant running away with him. Now he is a man we now are good friends but not like farther and son as many years where missed. There are no winners here only losers, throughout it all, the child's welfare is the most important, like a young seedling it needs a good start and plenty of nourishment.
You have to decide what's best for your son and act on it though as Papa said plan it carefully.

[fredythehound]

its amazing how many falangs get ripped off by thai women,my companion for the night was in a hotel room with me and while munching on something she got a call from one of her 2 mobiles,it was her BFof 2 years,she told him how much she loved him and said i wait you only,i miss you very much ect,can you send me some more money ect,she was blowing kisses down the phone and kissing something else sametime,when i talked about situation about her bf they plan to get married in near future.,why do falangs leave thier brains behind.

[mortiboy]

Thats very tastless

[aznyron]

I think the child welfare is most important here I think if the parents can work some thing out which will benefit the child and keep in mind the child needs a Mother & a Father running away with the child seems to me the wrong approach to this problem and running away with out the child is also the wrong thing to do so what is the answer here maybe you need a third party to investigate like the local monk or some one from the government I don't have the answer but I am sure there is one don't get caught up with your emotions take a back step a few breaths & think things out clearly because once your committed there
is no turning back

[BobHelm]

Wise words Ron....
I (personally) would not wish to go to a Government official or agency to assist me in a matter like this - politics rarely mix with individual circumstances & a politician (of any country) will always take a 'political' view.
However there are a great many honourable, learned & just plain sensible monks in and around Issan. A discussion between all the interested parties with a monk of standing 'mediating' might well be the best next step. At least all the options might be explored and a sensible compromise - for the family, the father & (most importantly) the child may be reached.
If it cannot then I must admit I think you have only two sensible courses of action.
Abscond with the child (via Laos) back to the country of your birth & bring up your child on your own.
Listen to Trubrits advice & 'cut & run' forgetting about your son for all time..
Half measures will be doomed to failure, heart rending & expensive...

[saint]

sorry bob but im gobsmacked !!!!! how could you interpret truebrits comments as advice or an option . they could only be either if you are a cold , selfish , heartless , coward . . if your not that person , then there is no greater love on this planet than the total unconditional love for your child . yes , you may be emotionaly strong enough to walk away , but if there is an ounce of humanity in you , you would always be haunted by the fact that you turned your back on your own flesh and blood in its hour of need , and in the O Ps case , sentanced that child to a miserable existance . now maybe im going soft in my old age , but to me that is definately not an option . certainly not to any decent human being its not , and i think that even a heartless coward would have a problem living with the consequences of that choice .

[papaguido]

Wise words Ron....
I (personally) would not wish to go to a Government official or agency to assist me in a matter like this - politics rarely mix with individual circumstances & a politician (of any country) will always take a 'political' view.
However there are a great many honourable, learned & just plain sensible monks in and around Issan. A discussion between all the interested parties with a monk of standing 'mediating' might well be the best next step. At least all the options might be explored and a sensible compromise - for the family, the father & (most importantly) the child may be reached.
If it cannot then I must admit I think you have only two sensible courses of action.
Abscond with the child (via Laos) back to the country of your birth & bring up your child on your own.
Listen to Trubrits advice & 'cut & run' forgetting about your son for all time..
Half measures will be doomed to failure, heart rending & expensive...

Bob,

I doubt that these people can be reasoned with, but if it can be done it will come a very high price. Which is the one and only thing I agree with in TB's post and why I would go to the extreme of kidnapping my own child.

by trubrit on June 10, 2009, 7:06 pm
Me? I would say to hell with it. Bye bye everyone, kid included. Life's too short to put up with this hassle. Move on, start again. Your being held to ransom, you can't win. Do you seriously believe if you manage to get your kid back, that will be the end of it? Of course not. In a few years the child will be grown up. Do you think he will say" Thank you Dad"? Remember he is also carrying the genes of his mother, so he may be just as unappreciative.Lifes too short. Be ready to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.
Harsh? Maybe, but practical.

[aznyron]

Rito you & I do not know that. we are talking the OP words as face value and you are letting your emotions speak for you. kidnapping a child even if it is your son could result in a jail sentence and as a expat here in thailand you have no rights. TB said your being held hostage to ransom money well does the son have a price tag on him I would assume so it appears the family is looking for money the question is how much. and at what extent would they let the father take the child to his home country. if that could be work out maybe that would be a more sensible solution. I personally would not risk kidnapping my child
but I also would not cut & run. and if the father in law likes to use him as a punching bag hire a few thai goons to come with him when he go to visit the child the in laws will not be so quick to throw punches
remember the secret word is thai baht and how much they want as for me there is no limit on what I would spend to keep him safe in the end it will all surface

[BKKSTAN]

Money might be the best option here,just don't give it up until the wife signs off with the parents as complying witnesses amongst other impartial witnesses.Even if you have to borrow to meet the price!

[papaguido]

Rito you & I do not know that. we are talking the OP words as face value and you are letting your emotions speak for you. kidnapping a child even if it is your son could result in a jail sentence and as a expat here in thailand you have no rights. TB said your being held hostage to ransom money well does the son have a price tag on him I would assume so it appears the family is looking for money the question is how much. and at what extent would they let the father take the child to his home country. if that could be work out maybe that would be a more sensible solution. I personally would not risk kidnapping my child
but I also would not cut & run. and if the father in law likes to use him as a punching bag hire a few thai goons to come with him when he go to visit the child the in laws will not be so quick to throw punches
remember the secret word is thai baht and how much they want as for me there is no limit on what I would spend to keep him safe in the end it will all surface

Ron,

You lost the plot. I'm not advising or recommending the OP do to kidnap his own child. What I've stated is if this were my situation and how I would handle it.

But just to address some other issues:

kidnapping a child even if it is your son could result in a jail sentence

Maybe, maybe not if it's carefully planned and executed quickly and discreetly.

hire a few thai goons to come with him when he go to visit the child the in laws will not be so quick to throw punches

This can escalate into violence and risk someone getting injured or killed, then who's the blame and result in a jail sentence?

remember the secret word is thai baht and how much they want

The OP has already stated he hasn't much money.

[BobHelm]

The OP has 4 options.
1. Do nothing. That would not be an option for me personally I would find the situation intolerable.
2. Work out a compromise with the family. Will undoubtedly involve money. Needs to do VERY carefully with checks & balances in place to ensure he just does not get screwed over again.
3. Take the law & situation into his own hands & exit Thailand via Laos back to Europe with his son.
4. Walk away...
I would not deem to recommend any approach to anyone as that is completely in the hands (and mind) of what any individual can live with). However I would find 1 impossible to live with so, if for reasons unknown 2 & 3 cannot be followed I would do 4.
Maybe that makes me callous saint, I don't think so, just practical....

[aznyron]

Bob I would not even consider # 3 that is a option I would not pursue as for # 4 if number 1 & 2 fail
then your only left with # 4 but I would not leave thailand if I took option # 4 because things could change
and it might change for the better some times waiting it out might pay off always remember stay close to your friends and stay even closer to your enemies

[latindancer]

Well, he hasn't posted in a while, so anything could be happening. I still thing the "softly softly" approach is best. Thai people do not like confrontation, and taking a monk there to the father's house is a good idea. Then when things have setled down, Farangano can take whatever action he wants to.
As far as I know, interference in 'private affairs' is welcome and acceptable in Thailand when conducted with 'saving face' motivation. Frequently, a third party ( such as a monk, who has a lot of 'face') may be asked to help in reconciling a high level of confrontational negotiation which, if not properly managed so as to 'save face' on both sides, may slide into an aggressive and violent conclusion.
Things need to be calmed down with the in-laws first, whatever he wants to do about it.

[saint]

it makes you whatever it makes you bob . im not here to judge anyone , but personaly # 4 is not an option , plain and simple . i just could not turn my back on the kid , and pretend to get on with my life . in a situation like this i would sooner die fighting , than surrender to an ar~ehole . perhaps that makes me stupid , but i do have a sense of right and wrong . to me walking away and leaving the kid at the mercy of this family is certainly not right .

[beer monkey]

Yes i can't get my head around the walk away part either......if i was there at the beginning and all the way through i would find that a tough one what with the 'bonding' thing.
like the old advert went 'A Puppy is for life..not just for Christmas'....
in this case farangono says the child spends time in a box in a garage..then will be sold off by the granny when he is older...maybe the granny will be dead by then though, how about going over to see the little one asking for a few hours with him altogether with no funny business, you never know.

Yo Farangono....you out there...???

[farangano]

Yes I here. I cant say too much at this point in time but it has been a real experience over the past weeks. I have a network of thai friends now which I did not have before. So let things cool down on all parties and lets hope my wife loves me and I can love her back and find resolution and forgiveness. NOTE: When I speak about the box... it is not literally. But the house in which he lives is this kind of old style garages to me it looks like a box and there he stays inside that house, garage (box) for most of his time I guess.

I have no idea about the outcome but it is like a scary hollywood movie and a "good" one because I learn so much about thai ways now I did not know when I was with my wife and her family because I was isolated and lonely and was told all farangs and thais just want your money so stay away... so I did. Hmm...

I have learned more about Thailand and its culture than I would ever learn in 15 years in some University. And for that I am happy. You can read all the stories you like about such cases as mine but to be in the "movie" yourself is an eye opener and an experience you can't get anywhere except if you are an active part and participant in the "movie".

I say "movie" because somehow thai ways are kind of instructed or have a "script book" to follow in these situation and it is very difficult to improvise. Loosing face is never good - I learned that now.

So as for the time being I am Ok and have luckily found friends and a network but again everyone wants something for somethings in Thailand - nothing is free - as we might understand it back in Europe regarding relationships between farang man and farang woman.

I find your comments comforting and I believe that the outcome will someway be comforting as well.

I do wish to stress that anyone in my boat should not jump to quick short solutions and especially not kidnapping or the like. That was not the purpose of coming to Thailand and ending up in prison here is the last thing you want. You and I came here to find peace and harmony and relaxation. Learn the thai way of dealing with things and all should with time be Ok. It will take time. Many can't wait for a final solution and goes right ahead and does something totally stupid. This is Thailand - 100% for all its splendors and what might follow. But Thailand is great and if you do end up in a situation like mine it is most likely because YOU and I did not understand a wink about thai culture and way of life and thinking.

Learn the thai way is a process and once you start to understand things suddenly falls into place and one begins to grasp why and how Thais really love their country - and you will too.

That is all for now. I am thinking of my son and my wife but I think all is Ok and don't become desperate in such a situation like mine. No need to - start learning Thai way of life and u start to understand and can start to understand the meaning of the word "happy" in Thai.

[DeNuit]

Read all of it... Will give a few thoughts about all...

1) if this sad story is true I hope the kid (your son) will have a good life and will be able to see both of his parents and enjoy both cultural input (thai and yours).

2)

When I speak about the box... it is not literally. But the house in which he lives is this kind of old style garages to me it looks like a box and there he stays inside that house, garage (box) for most of his time I guess.

... for someone who says he wants to addapt and accept thai ways of life you sound very judgemental about where some thai have to live... ever seen some of the village "house" ? Some of the poor suburds of Bkk or Jomtien etc ? A house like a "garage" where food and gaz bottle are sold don't strike me as a very poor place compare to them...

3)

I do wish to stress that anyone in my boat should not jump to quick short solutions and especially not kidnapping or the like.

Well, you did write some terrible things about what will hapened to your son if left with his thai familly which you described as more or less an organised mafia style... never heard about saving the kid at all cost ?... sounds to me it was why so many BM gave you advice to take your son and run... now if you had exagerated, well, that is different... of course better take a "cool" approach if it is possible and the life/health of the kid(s) are not in direct jeopardy...

4)

That was not the purpose of coming to Thailand and ending up in prison here is the last thing you want.

... you right to remind all this BM who gave you advice how they should be carrefull not to finish in prison... some have been living in Thailand for many years and hadn't thought about that... must be a bunch of idiots no ? ^^

5)

Learn the thai way of dealing with things and all should with time be Ok. It will take time. Many can't wait for a final solution and goes right ahead and does something totally stupid. This is Thailand - 100% for all its splendors and what might follow. But Thailand is great and if you do end up in a situation like mine it is most likely because YOU and I did not understand a wink about thai culture and way of life and thinking. Learn the thai way is a process and once you start to understand things suddenly falls into place and one begins to grasp why and how Thais really love their country - and you will too. start learning Thai way of life and u start to understand and can start to understand the meaning of the word "happy" in Thai.

... yep you right again to tell them how they should love more thai ways... after all, all this BM living there for years, they have been most probably totally ignorant of that and being just stupid farangs of course ! Luckily for you, your step-father punch you a bit a few weeks ago you wrote (a very thai reasonnable and no-confrotationnal way of solving things) and the light finally shine for you after a few weeks of thinking about it... wonderfull...


Point 1) stays. Points 2), 3), 4) and 5), make what ever you want about them... you sounded so much like a lesson givers in your last post, I just couldn't help myself writing about it... silly me...