Smoking or not in Restaurants

[arjay]

Interestingly enough, I was speaking with an old bloke last night that is here visiting from the UK. The first thing out of his mouth in the discussions was the draconian anti smoking laws in the UK. Ofr course, he was totally against them.

He runs a pub there in the UK - and his biggest concern was that business had dropped off dramatically.

He must be in a very small MINORITY then.

See my separate posting/thread, (with some statistics): "Yet another country bans smoking in bars and restaurants" =D>

He ought to be ecstatic, as the crowds of non-smokers will once again now be able to return to his pub and have a few drinks in an otherwise healthy environment, instead of being driven out by the small majority of selfish and thoughtless smokers.

[arjay]

He runs a pub there in the UK - and his biggest concern was that business had dropped off dramatically.

The counter-argument to this is laid out quite well in Wikipedia:-

It is sometimes argued that smoking bans hurt the business of those hospitality businesses, especially those near a border with a place that does allow smoking, such as another state or an Indian reservation. They argue that smokers will choose the venue where smoking is allowed, or opt to not go out at all. However, this factor seems to be offset by non-smokers who choose to go out to the smoke-free venues: although certain businesses may attribute their failure to a smoking ban going into effect, some localities taken as a whole have seen an increase in hospitality business.

For more detailed information, research and statistics, see Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_ba ... s_crime.22

.

[arjay]

The erroneously emotive and misleading assertion that businesses will lose customers and revenue if they ban smoking in their bars/restaurants, is further refuted in the following extract from Wikipedia:

Effects on businesses

Although one of the most common sources of resistance to bans comes from businesses concerned that they will suffer financial losses due to lost customers, research seems to offer them some reassurances.

Ireland's Office of Tobacco Control website indicates that "An evaluation of the official hospitality sector data shows there has been no adverse economic effect from the introduction of this measure (the March 2004 national ban on smoking in bars, restaurants, etc). Bar the most significant quarterly increase in employment since the second quarter of 2002."[26] Thus, even in a country with a relatively high percentage of smokers, the smoking ban did not seem to hurt business in bars or restaurants.

In the USA, smokers and hospitality businesses initially argued that businesses would suffer from smoking bans. Some restaurateurs argued that smoking bans would increase the rate of dine and dashes where patrons declare they are stepping outside to smoke, while their intent is to leave. Others have countered that even if this occurred it could decrease the leisure (non-eating) time spent in the restaurants, resulting in increased turn-over of tables, which could actually benefit total sales. The experiences of Delaware, New York, California, and Florida have shown that businesses are generally not hurt, and that many hospitality businesses actually show increased revenues. According to the 2004 Zagat Survey, which polled nearly 30,000 New York City restaurant patrons, by a margin of almost 6 to 1, respondents said that they eat out more often now because of the city's smoke-free policy[27]. A 2006 US surgeon general review[28] of studies suggests that business may actually improve[29]. Thus, research generally indicates that business incomes are stable (or even improved) after smoking bans are enacted, and many customers appreciate the improved air quality.

In 2003 New York City amended its antismoking law to include all restaurants and bars, including those in private clubs, making it one of the toughest in the nation. The city's Department of Health found in a 2004 study that air pollution levels had decreased sixfold in bars and restaurants after the ban went into effect, and that New Yorkers had reported less secondhand smoke in the workplace. The study also found the city's restaurants and bars prospered despite the smoking ban, with increases in jobs, liquor licenses and business tax payments.[30] A 2006 study by the state of New York found similar results.[31]

So yes, perhaps it is time for the local landlords and restauranteurs to give smokers "the boot", and to look forward to a new era of prosperity as the non-smokers "flock" back to their establishments!! =D> =D>

[Doc]

Oh my gosh! I have been censored!

Note to Moderators: If you are going to censor someone, at least have the gonads to send the censored person a PM and tell them why you are deleting a post. Don't hide behind your computer screen.

If my post was deleted by the moderator that I specifically mentioned in my post - then you, my friend, have abused your powers as a moderator.

[businessman]

Forum rules:

You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit.

[Coot]

Maybe it's time you got off the old

[lee]

Hi Doc, I don't know who deleted your post but whoever it was, was acting in accordance with the forum rules. These rules apply to everyone including myself and the owner.

[quote]6. You will not make posts that are inflammatory with the perceived intent to rile people up (i.e. "trolling" and "flaming" are prohibited).
8. You will only post messages that are within the particular forum

[arjay]

Doc, May I quote a few of the Forum Rules which may well be applicable:-

General Rules

2. You will not argue with, comment on or question the actions/authority of the udonmap.com staff (Administrators, Moderators, etc.) in a public forum. Should you wish to do so you are directed to contact the udonmap.com staff via PM (the private messaging system - see “Violations and Penalties” below).

3. You will at all times respect and refrain from harassing and/or personally attacking other users or udonmap.com staff.

4. You will respect the rights of other users to have their own opinions.

5. You will not use expressions that are considered foul, vulgar, sexually harassing, racially offensive or in any way discriminatory. These expressions include, but are not limited to, ethnic slurs, hate speech and religious epithets. Whether an expression fits under this definition will be determined by udonmap.com staff at the time.

6. You will not make posts that are inflammatory with the perceived intent to rile people up (i.e. "trolling" and "flaming" are prohibited).

8. You will only post messages that are within the particular forum’s scope or topic.

13. You will not flood or post on the forums redundant, empty, or nonsensical posts or advertisements as determined by udonmap.com staff (i.e. no "spamming").nonsensical posts or advertisements as determined by udonmap.com staff (i.e. no "spamming").

Whilst I personally did not delete your particular post, it certainly justified deletion.

May I point out whether one agrees or disagrees with another poster's view point, it is not acceptable to make disparaging, personal or critical remarks about them.

In this particluar case, your comments were of a personal nature, were disparaging and derogatory, were based on incorrect and incomplete knowledge/information, were no doubt the result of gossip, and it goes without saying were totally off-topic.

Whilst I may dislike and disagree with smoking, I do recognise your freedom of choice and right to smoke, and I have neither sought to interfere with that, nor to force my views on you. Nor have have I made personal or critical comments about you and certainly not on a public Forum.

Maybe you could do similarly.

[laphanphon]

2 mods typing at the same time

i like this rule

close any topic at any time should they see fit

i think this thread has run it's course to no conclusion, with the exception of the 50-70 active formites, non smoking seems to be the preference.

politics, religion and now smoking, simply can not be debated to anyones satisfaction

[beer monkey]

i think this thread has run it's course to no conclusion

yes its been Burnt out now

[tomcat57]

Doc's keyboard LOL! LOL! LOL!

[ElectrO]

In the end - there are alot more NON smokers in the world that smokers.

Smoking IS bad for your health and everyone elses health around that particular smoker, so why should you inflict bad things on people?

Now with the European move to ban smoking, its going to boost many business'.

More people stay at home because they don't want to become sick, (commonly a sore throat for non smokers) stink of fags, and generally like a cleaner health.

I do agree that a restaurant should allow smokers, IN their own little booth, so they can enjoy their own smell (as believe me, no one else enjoys your smell).

Most people who have families, don't want their children smoking, even if they do. The question is - do you want your daughter smoking? 95% will say no, but then why do you do it?

Anyway in the end I think, smoking is just for people who need chemicals to relax and enjoy life, not realising they would enjoy life a hell of a lot more if they didn't smoke.

E

[BKKSTAN]

Smoking=addiction=denial and selfcenteredness..........................

[Doc]

All I can say is la de fu**ing da.

Gentlemen: This is not Europe. This is not America. This is not Australia. This is Thailand. Even more specifically, this is Udon Thani.

You may not like smoking or smokers - which is your perrogative. I can respect that. However, the bottom line is this:

At the current time, smoking is allowed by the owners of various establishments. Nothing you say on this forum is going to change that.

End of story. Hopefully, end of discussion.

[humyaoyao]

Why not change the negative tones of this thread into something more positive.Instead of slagging off the smoke spoiled dinners in some places, talky about good dinners in non smoking places.

I recommend TJs for its good food and the smoke free atmosphere.

[Coot]

Yep,for breakfast it's hard to beat TJ's two eggs, home fries, bacon or sausage. toast coffee or juice 100 baht.Also it's Pecan Pie and homemade Chili.

Wife loves it as her hair and clothes don't stink of smoke.

[BKKSTAN]

I don't know why everyone else focused on The Irish Clock in the ''discussion'' related to smoking!I focused on it because I was so impressed with the food,service and overall hospitality of the current owners!
I would really like to make it a regular eating venue and maybe ocassionally stay there when in Udon.But if the rooms smell of smoke and the smell of smoke overwhelms us there ,we will have to give it a pass!
Had a ''celebration'' get together with 4-5 couples plus children planned for next week and was considering TIC,but none of these friends like smoke.So I am trying to figure another venue at the moment.It is not often that I have found quality farang and Thai food with such great service and hosting skills!

[lee]

I don't know why everyone else focused on The Irish Clock in the ''discussion'' related to smoking!

Because some people keep bringing it up.

I'm not a smoker and I don't like smoke when I'm eating but I've never had a problem at the Clock. As already discussed they have high ceilings and a good ventilation system in place.

It's a real shame why everyone is focusing on just one restaurant, what about all the other bars and restaurants that permit smoking!

Please don't single one place out, it's not fair on the establishment.

Since smoking is currently allowed at all these establishments I would advise those that don't like smoke to eat at an open air venue, the Thai Orchid is good if you like Thai food.

[wickder]

If you like a tasty pie or two in a smoke free place then TJ's is the place to go.

Fot Thai food,most are open air so no worries.

[Doc]

I am a bit curious what all of the adamant non-smokers did before they had laws that "protected" them... Amazing how y'all survived all these years...

Indoors, air conditioned non smoking eating places: TJs, Sizzler, the major hotels, anything in the Complex, Big C and Lotus, at times the Italian Restaurant at Centre Point and the Italian place at the Complex (can't think of their names right now).

Hotels offering non-smoking rooms: None that I know of.