Venomous Snakes of Udon Thani

[Michael C]

First, to Joe, your snake is striped. As it is the first one to be recorded here, I am not sure how much the stripes stand out. In some areas there is a significant difference between the stripes and the base colour, other areas it does not stand out as much. These are things that cannot be seen from a shed skin.

Jack, your first snake is a Ptyas korros (Indochinese Rat Snake). It is a non-venomous (harmless) snake. As its name implies, it eats rats, as well as anything else it can overpower and swallow.
Your second snake is an Oligodon fasciolatus, which has been pictured many times in this thread- harmless, non-offensive, but if grabbed will cause a really bloody wound that will take a while to heal.

Khon Dahm, both of the snakes are juvenile Coelognathus radiata (Radiated Rat Snakes). There is nothing to use for scale, but their proportions indicate they were young/small? They make a big display, larger ones will draw some blood, but they are harmless. This is much more of a rat specialist than the earlier rat snake mentioned; it is a true rat snake and was in the same genus as the American rat snakes until separated in the last decade. Large ones will also consume young/small birds.

Starting next year, I will probably not be around the Udon Thani area very much anymore. As it is, I have been gone from the Udon Thani area for half of the past 3 months. Next week, I will have the details of how much I will be away doing editorial review and research, which will possibly be all the time, minus short trips back to Udon Thani. If I am gone nearly all the time, I will keep up with at least this thread to keep all of you informed about the snakes here.

[KHONDAHM]

Khon Dahm, both of the snakes are juvenile Coelognathus radiata (Radiated Rat Snakes). There is nothing to use for scale, but their proportions indicate they were young/small?....

Starting next year, I will probably not be around the Udon Thani area very much anymore. I will keep up with at least this thread to keep all of you informed about the snakes here.

Thank you! I am relieved and you have saved the nearby environment from being utterly razed and destroyed by a certain overly cautious/worried former city-dweller who firmly believes wildlife belongs anywhere except where his pregnant wife and young daughter dwell.

Yes, they are young. I will include something for scale next time.

Sorry to hear you are not going to be around much next year, but it is comforting to know that you will not be leaving us completely alone and against the wild.

Cheers!

[jackspratt]

+1

Thanks MC

[SanukJoe]

Michael, if you find time I would appreciate your input on this snake.
My son and 2 cousins found it today at my farm and "killed" it with sticks, although I told them to warn me when any snake found.
I went over, looked at it and decided to take pics. I went back to the house and told the boys to put some water over the snake as that way the patterns were better visible.
When I came back with the camera and took the first pic I saw the snake body moving very slowly and it even opened its mouth. So it was not dead but heavily wounded.
I quickly took some pics and chopped the head off, to save it from further suffering.

I think (to my very low standard of determining snakes) it is a Banded Kukri snake (Oligodon fasciolatus) but I will wait for Michael's expertise to know whether or not I'm right. If so I know it was a harmless snake and will tell the boys they killed a snake that could be still alive, as a lesson in snakology
The snake is about 80 cm long and 2 cm wide

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The same boys had a "sighting" of another snake in the backyard, earlier this week, they didn't attempt to kill it as they were scared. It came out it looked like the Blue Krait I had to kill last year as it was very close to the house. After searching and not finding the snake I asked for a description and they made a drawing in the sand of the pattern of the snake. Total length about 1.5 m, 2.5 cm thick. Large white/grey pattern (10 cm) and small (3 cm) black bands.
Is there any chance Michael that you could identify the snake based on this little info?

Thanks in advance for your highly appreciated expertise.

Cheers
Joe

[SanukJoe]

MIchael, me again. I found this dead snake this morning on the road near my house. Obviously run over by a car or so.

I took pics (the shoe is for size reference) and wait eagerly for your input.

It's a small snake but perhaps a baby of a monster snake

Merry Christmas to all
Joe

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[Michael C]

Sorry Joe for taking so long to get back to you on this. I just returned last night from my last trip to the field for the year. While on the go, I usually only access email, which is about all a GPRS connection in such remote locations can handle.

The first of your two posts shows an Oligodon fasciolatus (Banded Khukri Snake)(pictured numerous times throughout this thread). It is a harmless inoffensive snake, that will give you a bite that will give you a good bleeding with a slow healing wound if you grab or beat it. Every snake of this species has tried to get away when encountered and never had one act aggressively unless I grabbed it. Best thing to do with these is slowly move it away from where you don't want it with a broom.

The second of your two posts shows an Enhydris enhydris (Rainbow Water Snake). First one on this thread so far, but I have seen them in the area. Maximum size is 86cm and they are born live at 14cm. Most that I have seen have been around 50cm. This is a mildly venomous snake (meaning it will cause some minor swelling); however, this snake does not bite (unless beaten or seriously molested). I have handled at least 50 of these snakes caught in the wild and only one ever tried to bite; the one that tried to bite was caught in a fishing net and was suffering for a long time unable to free itself, until I got it untangled from the net. Ones that I have caught on roads or on the ground were completely docile (like they had been pet snakes used to handling). It is quite safe to slowly lift it up and take it away (unless someone, a cat or a dog has been really after it).

Other snakes of the Enhydris genus and most Homalopsine snakes (subfamily of water snakes belonging to family of typical snakes) are quick to bite, but they will always try to get away first.

Your description of the other snake, sounds a lot like a Bungarus candidus (Blue Krait)= extremely venomous; although, it could also be a member of the genus Lycodon (Wolf Snakes)= harmless.

[SanukJoe]

Thanks again Michael, you don't have to apologize for answering late, we all know you are very busy and will always answer as soon as you can. On top your expertise puts a bright light on the unknown snake world.

Just some info on the last snake: it was and is a Blue Krait, I saw it a few days back in the dawn of the day, it is the same kind I killed last year so the boys were correct to not chase it. I went towards it with a long stick and my long sugar knife but it went away, first into the banana plants and later I saw it crossing the road into sugar land, which is a good place to hide for snakes until the people burn the sugar before harvesting...

Cheers
Joe

[onionluke]

Hello chaps ,

I killed this snake yesterday without knowing what it is . Can anyone identify it , it is the 3rd one in the past few months that i have found in our garden .
Last year we had a "moo how" cobra that nearly bit my father in laws backside as he was taking a piss round the side of the house , it was quickly killed by a neighbour who cut its gut open , removing a rat and then its heart was knocked back with a swig of lao kao .
I live in a village south of Det Udom .
Cheers Luke

[SanukJoe]

To me it looks a Rainbow water snake, looking at the color pattern.

Mildly venomous so not a real threat, as Michael C. wrote.

I find them regularly around my farm and leave them alone.

I hope Michael will give his expertise soon as I'm not more than an amateur surrounded by snakes

Joe

[SanukJoe]

To add: I live 75 km ESE of Udon

[polehawk]

Hard to judge its size from the photos but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it must be a nonvenomous ratsnake (since you cut a rat out of its guts).

Michael C will probably ID it definitively when he returns to the thread, however.

[onionluke]

Hi Joe ,
thanks for your reply . I will take care with this one and try let it go . I still get a scare when I see snakes . My wife has called it a " moo pla " wich is close to rainbow water snake . I will contribute to this forum in the future .
thanks
Luke

[Michael C]

Joe is getting pretty good at this. It is an Enhydris enhydris (Rainbow Water Snake). The vernacular name in Thai is also the same- งูสายรุ้ง (Ngu Sai Rung= Rainbow Snake), due to the coloured stripes along its ventral surface and in some localities dorsal surface also. งูปลา (Ngu Pla) is a colloquial name that best describes the entire genus of Enhydris, probably to describe what they feed on primarily- ปลา=fish.

Although it has a very mild venom, the venom has never had a documented effect on people= ants have a much more potent venom. It is such an inoffensive snake, it can be just picked right up and moved away. I suppose if you somehow forced its mouth onto your finger, since they don't bite, and somehow made it chew on your finger, there would be some swelling Since there are not so many small fish around this area, it may be feeding on small frogs (Microhyla spp.)

Since no venomous snakes here in Northeastern Thailand (Issan) are striped on the back, it is safe to assume snakes with stripes on the back in this region are harmless (DOES NOT APPLY TO SOUTHERN THAILAND!). There is still one snake that I have been told about, but have yet to see or identify that has a reddish zig-zag pattern on its back; this is more of a zig-zag pattern rather than a stripe.

[SanukJoe]

Joe is getting pretty good at this. The student thanks the Master


Since no venomous snakes here in Northeastern Thailand (Issan) are striped on the back, it is safe to assume snakes with stripes on the back in this region are harmless (DOES NOT APPLY TO SOUTHERN THAILAND!). There is still one snake that I have been told about, but have yet to see or identify that has a reddish zig-zag pattern on its back; this is more of a zig-zag pattern rather than a stripe.

Michael I think this needs some clarification. I call a (very venomous) Krait striped but I think you call it differently.
Maybe all non-specialists call stripes stripes even if they are bands or other named pattern.
I don't like to think of someone picking up a Krait thinking it is harmless as it has stripes.

Please enlighten us.

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Hi Joe ,
thanks for your reply . I will take care with this one and try let it go . I still get a scare when I see snakes . My wife has called it a " moo pla " wich is close to rainbow water snake . I will contribute to this forum in the future .
thanks
Luke

Hi Luke

I'm not scared of snakes but after I nearly died of a snake bite I am very careful with them.

After Michael started this very informative thread and gives us accurate info each time a snake is spotted I feel by knowing more and more about snakes you are more relaxed when seeing one. With Michael's help I'm now able to determine quite some snakes I encounter and the harmless ones can live on without attempt to kill them. The venomous ones, if too close to the house, will be killed as I'm not that courageous to put them in a cotton bag and rehome them

Joe

[Michael C]

For clarification, what I meant by striped is a long narrow marking lengthwise with the body, as opposed to banding which would mean narrow markings going across the width of the body. On page one, you see Bungarus spp. (Kraits) and Ophiophagus hannah (individual Cobra in Isaan) with banded markings: narrow markings across the width of the body. For the last snake pictured, we see stripes both on the dorsal (back) side and the ventral (underneath) side of the snake- narrow markings going the width of the body.

I am in the process of leaving Udon Thani as the place I spend most of my time (will still probably spend more time in Udon Thani than many that post here), but when I am around, I will be more than happy to relocate venomous snakes from someone's property. I have done this dozens of times with Naja kaouthia (Monocled Cobra) outside of Bangkok when I was living there, but the only time someone has called on me in the Udon Thani area, the snake, a suspected Naja siamensis (Indo-Chinese Spitting Cobra) was already gone

[SanukJoe]

Michael thanks for the clarification, very clear.

Joe

[onionluke]

Hello Chaps ,

I killed this one at the back door . It was a bit of a fighter and actually jumped at the hoe a couple of times . The only note my wife gave was that it was an unlucky snake .I would apreciate any info on this snake for future encounters , hopefully non fatal .
Cheers Luke

[SanukJoe]

Hi Luke

I would go for the Indochinese Rat snake but let's wait for Master Michael's expertise.

If I'm right the snake was harmless and your wife was right: unlucky snake, although I don't know if she meant the snake or the encounter

Your hoe looks like a rat? Could be the reason for the snake to jump at it.....

Joe

[SanukJoe]

Hi Luke

After looking into my references I would change my earlier guess.

I strongly believe it's a Common Keelback, based on the stripes behind the eye and neck.
It also explains the behaviour as these Keelbacks behave like a Cobra and try to bite... but they are not venomous.

Eager to Michael's clarification...

Joe