Evolution or Adam and Eve?

[BKKSTAN]

Eliminate the Einstein bit and it might have value to many!

[Michael C]

Not really of much value by simply eliminating the name Einstein as you go on:

Einstein was Jewish, not Christian.

Evolution does not teach that we came from monkeys, evolution shows that we are of common descent.

Rules of empirical, stable and demonstrable protocol would say the professor does have a brain.

The following examples are of observed speciation (evolution that has been seen) where there is agreement within the scientific community:

Dobzhansky, T. and O. Pavlovsky. 1971. Experimentally created incipient species of Drosophila. Nature. 230:289-292.

Dobzhansky, T. 1972. Species of Drosophila: new excitement in an old field. Science. 177:664-669.

Thoday, J. M. and J. B. Gibson. 1962. Isolation by disruptive selection. Nature. 193:1164-1166.

Crossley, S. A. 1974. Changes in mating behavior produced by selection for ethological isolation between ebony and vestigial mutants of Drosophilia melanogaster. Evolution. 28:631-647.

Kilias, G., S. N. Alahiotis and M. Delecanos. 1980. A multifactorial investigation of speciation theory using Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution. 34:730-737.

Rice, W. R. 1985. Disruptive selection on habitat preference and the evolution of reproductive isolation: an exploratory experiment. Evolution. 39:645-646.

Rice, W. R. and E. E. Hostert. 1993. Laboratory experiments on speciation: What have we learned in forty years? Evolution. 47:1637-1653.

Rice, W. R. and G. W. Salt. 1988. Speciation via disruptive selection on habitat preference: experimental evidence. The American Naturalist. 131:911-917.

Rice, W. R. and G. W. Salt. 1990. The evolution of reproductive isolation as a correlated character under sympatric conditions: experimental evidence. Evolution. 44:1140-1152.

del Solar, E. 1966. Sexual isolation caused by selection for positive and negative phototaxis and geotaxis in Drosophila pseudoobscura. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (US). 56:484-487.

Hurd, L. E., and R. M. Eisenberg. 1975. Divergent selection for geotactic response and evolution of reproductive isolation in sympatric and allopatric populations of houseflies. The American Naturalist. 109:353-358.

Dodd, D. M. B. 1989. Reproductive isolation as a consequence of adaptive divergence in Drosophila melanogaster. Evolution 43:1308-1311.

de Oliveira, A. K. and A. R. Cordeiro. 1980. Adaptation of Drosophila willistoni experimental populations to extreme pH medium. II. Development of incipient reproductive isolation. Heredity. 44:123-130.

Ehrman, E. 1971. Natural selection for the origin of reproductive isolation. The American Naturalist. 105:479-483.

Ehrman, E. 1973. More on natural selection for the origin of reproductive isolation. The American Naturalist. 107:318-319.

Koopman, K. F. 1950. Natural selection for reproductive isolation between Drosophila pseudoobscura and Drosophila persimilis. Evolution. 4:135-148.

Powell, J. R. 1978. The founder-flush speciation theory: an experimental approach. Evolution. 32:465-474.

Dodd, D. M. B. and J. R. Powell. 1985. Founder-flush speciation: an update of experimental results with Drosophila. Evolution 39:1388-1392.

Galiana, A., A. Moya and F. J. Alaya. 1993. Founder-flush speciation in Drosophila pseudoobscura: a large scale experiment. Evolution. 47432-444.

Ahearn, J. N. 1980. Evolution of behavioral reproductive isolation in a laboratory stock of Drosophila silvestris. Experientia. 36:63-64.

Ringo, J., D. Wood, R. Rockwell, and H. Dowse. 1989. An experiment testing two hypotheses of speciation. The American Naturalist. 126:642-661.

Meffert, L. M. and E. H. Bryant. 1991. Mating propensity and courtship behavior in serially bottlenecked lines of the housefly. Evolution 45:293-306.

Soans, A. B., D. Pimentel and J. S. Soans. 1974. Evolution of reproductive isolation in allopatric and sympatric populations. The American Naturalist. 108:117-124.

Feder, J. L., C. A. Chilcote and G. L. Bush. 1988. Genetic differentiation between sympatric host races of the apple maggot fly, Rhagoletis pomonella. Nature. 336:61-64.

McPheron, B. A., D. C. Smith and S. H. Berlocher. 1988. Genetic differentiation between host races of Rhagoletis pomonella. Nature. 336:64-66.

Smith, D. C. 1988. Heritable divergence of Rhagoletis pomonella host races by seasonal asynchrony. Nature. 336:66-67.

Feder, J. L. and G. L. Bush. 1989. A field test of differential host-plant usage between two sibling species of Rhagoletis pomonella fruit flies (Diptera:Tephritidae) and its consequences for sympatric models of speciation. Evolution 43:1813-1819.

Waring, G. L., W. G. Abrahamson and D. J. Howard. 1990. Genetic differentiation in the gall former Eurosta solidaginis (Diptera:Tephritidae) along host plant lines. Evolution. 44:1648-1655.
Craig, T. P., J. K. Itami, W. G. Abrahamson and J. D. Horner. 1993. Behavioral evidence for host-race fromation in Eurosta solidaginis. Evolution. 47:1696-1710.

Halliburton, R. and G. A. E. Gall. 1981. Disruptive selection and assortative mating in Tribolium castaneum. Evolution. 35:829-843.

Weinberg, J. R., V. R. Starczak and P. Jora. 1992. Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory. Evolution. 46:1214-1220.

Yen, J. H. and A. R. Barr. 1971. New hypotheses of the cause of cytoplasmic incompatability in Culex pipiens L.

Gottleib, L. D. 1973. Genetic differentiation, sympatric speciation, and the origin of a diploid species of Stephanomeira. American Journal of Botany. 60: 545-553.

Pasterniani, E. 1969. Selection for reproductive isolation between two populations of maize, Zea mays L. Evolution. 23:534-547.

Macnair, M. R. 1981. Tolerance of higher plants to toxic materials. In: J. A. Bishop and L. M. Cook (eds.). Genetic consequences of man made change. Pp.177-297. Academic Press, New York.

Macnair, M. R. and P. Christie. 1983. Reproductive isolation as a pleiotropic effect of copper tolerance in Mimulus guttatus. Heredity. 50:295-302.

Weinberg, J. R., V. R. Starczak and P. Jora. 1992. Evidence for rapid speciation following a founder event in the laboratory. Evolution. 46:1214-1220.

Callaghan, C. A. 1987. Instances of observed speciation. The American Biology Teacher. 49:3436.

de Wet, J. M. J. 1971. Polyploidy and evolution in plants. Taxon. 20:29-35.

Digby, L. 1912. The cytology of Primula kewensis and of other related Primula hybrids. Ann. Bot. 26:357-388.

Owenby, M. 1950. Natural hybridization and amphiploidy in the genus Tragopogon. Am. J. Bot. 37:487-499.

Karpchenko, G. D. 1927. Polyploid hybrids of Raphanus sativus L. X Brassica oleraceae L. Bull. Appl. Botany. 17:305-408.

Karpchenko, G. D. 1928. Polyploid hybrids of Raphanus sativus L. X Brassica oleraceae L. Z. Indukt. Abstami-a Verenbungsi. 48:1-85.

Muntzing, A. 1932. Cytogenetic investigations on the synthetic Galeopsis tetrahit. Hereditas. 16:105-154.

Clausen, J., D. D. Keck and W. M. Hiesey. 1945. Experimental studies on the nature of species. II. Plant evolution through amphiploidy and autoploidy, with examples from the Madiinae. Carnegie Institute Washington Publication, 564:1-174.

Frandsen, K. J. 1943. The experimental formation of Brassica juncea Czern. et Coss. Dansk. Bot. Arkiv., No. 4, 11:1-17.

Frandsen, K. J. 1947. The experimental formation of Brassica napus L. var. oleifera DC and Brassica carinata Braun. Dansk. Bot. Arkiv., No. 7, 12:1-16.

Rabe, E. W. and C. H. Haufler. 1992. Incipient polyploid speciation in the maidenhair fern (Adiantum pedatum, adiantaceae)? American Journal of Botany. 79:701-707.

Butters, F. K. 1941. Hybrid Woodsias in Minnesota. Amer. Fern. J. 31:15-21.

There are many many more that are in debate as to whether the evolutionary change reached the level of speciation or not, but did show observable evolution in multicellular organisms.

Observed speciation at the cellular organism level could fill up an encyclopaedia set of pages.

Speciation, evolution of one species into another, is what is referred to by laymen as a form ‘macroevolution’. Biologists do not recognise the term, but according to its definition, it is evolution at the species level or above in American English, especially with American Christian fundamentalist in false argument against evolution (evidence against the fundamentalists' argument includes the citations above and the numerous cases of cellular level speciation). The English definition is much closer to it being a real term: evolution over long periods of time.

There is always the anti-evolution argument that there are no transitional fossils, but there are a great many.

Transitional Fossils:

There are transitional fossils (evolutionary links) for every major transitional step in evolution:
Primitive jawless fish to sharks and rays (Late Silurian)
Primitive jawless fish to bony fish (Surlian and early Devonian)
Primitive bony fish to amphibians (mid-Devolnian)
Transitions between amphibians (Mississippian)
Transitions between amphibians and amniotes (late Mississippian)
Transitions between reptiles (mid Permian)
Transitions between synapsids and mammals (early Permian)
Transitions between anapsids and avians (late Triassic)

Breakdown of the times of the earth:

-Hadean-4,600mya, Archaean-4000mya, Proterozoic-2500mya (these are considered Precambrian)
-Camrbian-570mya, Ordovician-510mya, Siluria-439mya, Devonian-408.5mya, Carboniferous-362.5mya (this includes Mississippian-362.5mya, Pennsylvannian-320mya), Permian-290mya (these are considered the Paleozoic Era)
-Triassic-245mya, Jurassic-208mya, Cretaceous-145.6mya (these are considered the Mesozoic Era)
-Paleocene-65mya, Eocene-56.5mya, Oligocene-35.4mya, Miocene-23.3mya, Pliocene-5.2mya (these are considered the Tertiary sub-Era)
-Pleistocene-1.64mya, Holocene-0.01mya (some call Quaternary sub-Era)

Furthermore, there have been transitional fossils found for 75% of all extant Families (level above Genus). This has been over only the past 150 years, since scientists have been looking for transitional forms, after Darwin suggested that they should be found.

Examples of evolution at the single cell level of organisms could fill up an encyclopaedia set.

Of course, through DNA, we can see direct relationships between different species in molecular phylogenies (mapping of evolutionary relationships with time frames), just as DNA can show the relationship between parents and their children.

[rickfarang]

Now what was it.. Evolution or Adam and Eve?

Possibly neither. Perhaps it was panspermia.

[Michael C]

Rick, panspermia is more in the realm of science fiction than reality. Chandra Wickramasinghe, the primary proponent of panspermia, and some others that support it said that Abiogenesis was mathematically nearly impossible, but from what has been discovered this year, we see that he is wrong and that is definitely not the case. Chandra Wickramasinghe, who is very quick to point to extraterrestrial sources for many things, is the same one that suggested SARS was from an extraterrestrial source, but we now know that the source was quite terrestrial; it was from humans consuming animals, Paguma spp. in China. It was later found in other mammals.

[Farang1]

Something for those that want to believe a little of everything.

[old-timer]

47 million year old discovery

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/The-Mi ... ssing_Link

[TJ]

Science's knowledge of DNA and the properties and functions of simple living cells eliminates the possibility of a first living cell happening by accident, much less surviving, propagating and evolving. There was no evolution of species. Look for answers elsewhere.

[jackspratt]

Science's knowledge of DNA and the properties and functions of simple living cells eliminates the possibility of a first living cell happening by accident, much less surviving, propagating and evolving. There was no evolution of species. Look for answers elsewhere.

Where ?

[BobHelm]

I would think TJ means "intelligent design" jack (or 'creationism' as it was before the American courts said that was not a science).
Wiki give quite a balanced view on it..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

[jackspratt]

Thanks for the link Bob - I thought for a minute that TJ was pointing us towards the Bible

I quickly scanned the wiki article, but must admit I tuned out pretty quickly after reading this in the opening paragraph:

Intelligent design's leading proponents, all of whom are associated with the Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank, believe the designer to be the God of Christianity.

[BobHelm]

I saw a series (on the Aussie Channel) about the Kitzmiller trial in the USA, hence I have heard of them before.
I will admit that I lost interest in their views when one of the major supporter of introducing "intelligent design" into science classes was expounded on the 'age of the earth' being only 6,000 years old. I felt that anyone who could take such a huge amount of data (from many different areas of science) and dismiss it because it was contrary to his literal belief in the Bible didn't have a great deal to tell me about anything...

[rick]

6,000 years old, anyone who believes that is really not open to reason. Just like carbon dating, it is possible to date rocks by isotope ratios of a number of elements. This is not theory, but simple Physics, Chemistry and Maths, all on observable and testable data, From this it is possible to date rocks and even individual crystals in most rocks. Therefore it is possible to date most rocks within relatively small margins of error. From this it is possible to state that the earth IS definitely over 1 billion years old. the only way around this is to say that god created the rocks with these ratios in them. If thats the case, he sure has a sense of humour. I will believe the science.

This is not even touching on other evidence like ice cores, seasonal layers in sediments, tree rings and archeology which can all come up with dates for items well over 6,000 years old.

[Frankie 1]

"The Universe was created the moment I was born and will cease to exist the instant I die, its all hear for me." I believe it was Geronimo the Apache Indian medicine man that first said that

In Hindu Advaita and Zen Buddhism they say the same things.

But about the creation theory of the Bible. According to the Torah/Old Testament, the world was created 6000 years ago. So, where do the dinosaur bones and fossiles come from. Are they a joke of God or some decoration. Did God have some time left to create the remains of animals that never existed?

[Ter]

God just did that when he was drunk for a laugh. :-"

[Roy]

I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours but I think that god has a sick sense of humour and when I die I expect to find him laughing.
Courtesy of Gore, Martin & Lee.

[Pakawala]

Death and God...

A sick man turned to his doctor as he was preparing to leave the examination room and said,
'Doctor, I am afraid to die. Tell me what lies on the other side.'

Very quietly, the doctor said, 'I don't know.'

'You don't know? You're, a Christian man, and don't know what's on the other side?'

The doctor was holding the handle of the door; on the other side came a sound of scratching and whining, and as he opened the door, a dog sprang into the room and leaped on him with an eager show of gladness.

Turning to the patient, the doctor said, 'Did you notice my dog? He's never been in this room before. He didn't know what was inside. He knew nothing except that his master was here, and when the door opened, he sprang in without fear.

I know little of what is on the other side of death, but I do know one thing... I know my Master is there and that is enough.'

[jackspratt]

I know little of what is on the other side of death, but I do know one thing... I know my Master is there and that is enough.'

If that gives you comfort, I applaud you for your beliefs paka

[keith555]

I hear a lot about this person GOD,but what is his real name ......... does anybody know...

[Roy]

I'm not sure who he actually is but about 90% of teenage boys across the globe think they are

[Kenn]

i will stick with Evolution, i am not one for Blind Faith