Thai versus farang Education systems

[Michael C]

My wife commented that my family homes in Germany and the US were nice places to visit, but she would not want to live there long term. Although we spent our first three years after being married in Japan, which she enjoyed, she prefers Thailand to Japan or any of the 15 countries we have travelled together. She was quite knowledgeable about the world before I met her and quite savvy about adapting to how things work outside Thailand, like finance, to the point she was able to handle multiple international financial transactions within a few months of living overseas.

BKKSTAN, I think next time that you go to the US you should talk about geography with your fellow Americans. I have never come across a majority of people more ignorant of the world outside their borders! I think it would be a safe bet to say that at least 90% of Americans could not even tell you what countries make up the UK (America's closest ally). I remember quite clearly when there were harsh feelings against Iran, after the embassy hostage taking, the Iranians called themselves Persians in the 1980s counting on the American's ignorance; it worked and VERY FEW realised that a Persian is an Iranian and Persia had not existed since the mid 1930s! How much experience have you had with the education system here in Thailand, since you commented on the Thais’ education, BKKSTAN? Granted, most schools in Isaan should be compared with those in the American south, like Texas, Arkansas and Mississippi. One thing that should be considered is that the Thais will only appear as educated as the company that you keep and the negative comments about their education speak volumes about the people that these negative posters are associating with!

Saint, when teaching my first 7 semesters in Thailand, I found the students to be much more educated about the world than most here on this forum would give them credit for here, especially more so than American high school graduates that I worked with in the military. They represented a good variable cross section of American high school graduates, many of whom thought that "Taiwanese" is the language of Thailand, despite having been to Thailand in the past.

[BKKSTAN]

Thanks for the suggestion MC,but I am not planning any trips to the USA in the future and only went back for a 3 week visit in 2001!

Reading most of your posts,whether I agree with them or not,has given the impression that you are better educated than myself and possibly more intelligent.So,I am a bit surprised to see your claims about the USA population talked about in such an nonfactual and general way!

I am an American and I know very few people that are ae ignorant as you claim.I went to 9 different schools in my primary 12 years of beginning education in several regions of the USA and I never experienced the ''negative'' education system that I have experienced through my stepdaughters school experiences here in Thailand or any other family,that I know here, has experienced.

MY experience is limited to a gov't school in Burriram,3 private schools in Bangkok including a short term enrollment in an International school there and 2 schools in NK!Both NK schools are supposed to be the best in the area!

Seems that your experience has been in better institutions of learning with a different system than I or anyone else I know has experienced!

Maybe we could have an education thread about the ''positive'' curriculum and teaching methods you employ or have experienced in Thailand!

[Michael C]

Thanks for the suggestion MC,but I am not planning any trips to the USA in the future and only went back for a 3 week visit in 2001!

Reading most of your posts,whether I agree with them or not,has given the impression that you are better educated than myself and possibly more intelligent.So,I am a bit surprised to see your claims about the USA population talked about in such an nonfactual and general way!

I am an American and I know very few people that are ae ignorant as you claim.I went to 9 different schools in my primary 12 years of beginning education in several regions of the USA and I never experienced the ''negative'' education system that I have experienced through my stepdaughters school experiences here in Thailand or any other family,that I know here, has experienced.

Nonfactual and general claims about the USA population??? Let us look at that:

Geography class used to mean poring over maps and learning the tributaries of the Nile. But those days appear to be gone -- at least in the United States. A new poll, conducted on behalf of the U.S.-based National Geographic Society, shows that young Americans have a particularly poor grasp of geography 63 % of young Americans were unable to find Iraq on a map!
- Source: Radio Free Europe

and more information from the National Geographic Society on the results:

*88% of young Americans could not locate Afghanistan on a map!

*70% of young Americans could not locate North Korea on a map!

*75% of young Americans could not find other international hotspots like Israel or Iran!

*77% of young Americans with college in America could not find all 4 strategic countries!

*94% of young Americans with only high school could not find all 4 strategic countries!

*65% could not find the UK (and you suggest that I am wrong about them being able to identify the countries of the UK???)

*54% of young Americans did not know that Sudan was in Africa (it is the largest country in Africa!)

Fewer than 50 percent of those polled in the survey could identify the U.S. states of New York or Ohio on a map

In a 2002 Roper poll of geographic knowledge conducted on behalf of National Geographic among citizens from nine different countries, the United States came in second-to-last place, followed by Mexico. (nonfactual statements and general claims???)

This makes some interesting, but sad reading.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/roper ... survey.pdf

Source: National Geographic and CNN

Shall we go on to see how American students rate in mathematics and science against Thai students??? (hint: Americans are way behind). I have noticed in your posts, Stan, that you love to push "false statements and general claims" about the Thais education and intelligence , but I think you better think about the home country before doing so

[BKKSTAN]

I bow to your statistics cited by NG,MC!Not my experience in school,nor that Of my children,but I have been ''out of touch with the system as it is to date!

That said,please address my ''false statements and general claims about Thai Intelligence and the Thai education system.''

Maybe you would be kind enough to point out the positive points about the system,since you are the only one I know that seems to see them!

[laphanphon]

Shall we go on to see how American students rate in mathematics and science against Thai students??? (hint: Americans are way behind).

you need to stop over the house and bring some of that stuff you are smoking. math and science...........didn't know they taught that here. how to use a calculator, yes, take your gold off during a thunderstorm and sit under the tree in the middle of the field, yes.

thailand also has a 96 % literacy rate.......which hat did they pull that one out of.....and..........which means what, can count to 10 and write your name.

stats are just that, stats, some good, some bad. ask a question a different way, get a different answer, ask a different group/sector, get different answer.

stats.............thailand highest score on national test of private schools was a 79,or something, and the allow applicants with a 52 to attend med school.

fire one of them bad boys up.

i'm searching, but can't find that source, will come up with it though.

[WBU ALUM]

I bow to your statistics cited by NG,MC!

Bow?!?! You're going to bow?!?!?!Why bow? They're only statistics about finding countries on maps! You think Thai students can locate those same countries? You think they even care?

It's not about American students and Thai students. It's about lack of motivation to know anything outside of the everyday jaunt back and forth to school and what's happening on the weekend. It's what high school kids do all over the world. Yeah, some score higher than others. So what?

Like LA said, it's just stats, and they can come out any way that the stat individual wants them to come out.

Now, wasn't this thread about "What does your gf or wife think about Falang land?"

Mod Note - Thread now split. Thanks for the prompt.

[laphanphon]

not the one i'm looking for, but working on it, but some reading while i search. anyone remember the article. stating national test highest score was 79 or something, and they were admitting med students with a 52 average. within last 6 months i believe.

Grade-12 students perform poorly across the board in all main subjects

By The Nation
Published on April 7, 2009

'Easy' test, which weighs heavily in the university-admissions system, seems to be stumping high-school seniors Grade-12 students have performed badly in the Ordinary National Educational Test (Onet) with their average scores from the past four years below 50 per cent in all main subjects.

"The statistics show most schools still have low standards," National Institute of Educational Testing Services (NIETS) director Utumporn Jamornmann yesterday said.

NIETS has held Onet for Grade-6, Grade-9 and Grade-12 students. The Onet scores for the 2008 Academic Year have just been announced via www.niets.or.th and some other web sites.

To Grade-12 students, the Onet scores are very important because they count in the university-admission system.

However, NIETS has found most students could not perform well in the Onet.

From 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 academic years, the students' average scores in Thai-language subjects were 49 out of 100. In social studies, the average scores stand at just 38.25 and students on average have scored only 30.28 in mathematics. The students' average scores in English language are also at a mere 32.12, and the average scores in science as low as 34.28.

"Onet is rather easy. Still, students can't do it well," Utumporn said.

A total of 343,859 Grade-12 students sat in the Onet in the 2008 Academic Year.

Utumporn said the Grade-12 students' Onet average scores during the past four years showed schools did not improve their services based on what Onet scores had reflected.

"Actually, school directors and teachers must make some improvements," Utumporn said, "We will send a full analysis to each school so that all schools know about their strengths and weak points. Onet scores are effective indicators".

Utumporn added that the schools would also be informed of their ranking in the country, based on their students' performance in Onet.

At the Grade-6 level, students' average scores in Thai-language, mathematics and science subjects stand at 42.02, 43.76 and 51.86 respectively for the 2008 Academic Year.

At the Grade-9 level, students' average scores in Thai-language, social studies, mathematics, English-language and science subjects are at 41.03, 41.36, 34.56, 32.63 and 39.38 respectively in the same academic year.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/0 ... 099760.php

[rick]

I think the TGF thinks Falangland is where ATM users come from! But seriously, most Thai only have an experience of their own country, and do not expect to leave it, so why bother? We have to remember, we are talking about a generation who have parents/grandparents who had little or any schooling in the rural areas (i think?). The children growing up today will have a much more international outlook, Rome was not built in a day.

As far as recognising countries etc, yes, teenagers are often awfully ignorant (one 17 year old studying history thought Germany was landlocked; wonder why they built so many submarines then?). Fortunately, my son, lazy though he is, could name 99% of the countries of the world and name most of the capital cities too. Would probably be able to name half the states in USA as well; and he does not like Geography much!

[laphanphon]

couple more fine links on thai education system, so superior to USA.

The Nation April 7, 2009

Test scores for medical school slid slightly this year, due to the Advanced National Educational Test, which accounts for 70 per cent of admission criteria.

"This year, the Anet scores are rather low," Dr Boonmee Sathapatayavongs, chairwoman of the Consortium of Thai Medical Schools' direct admission panel, said yesterday.

"However, we've seen just a slight drop among our successful applicants."

The consortium posted the list of successful applicants in the evening on its website, http://www.cotmes.org, and its member medical schools' websites.

Of 22,000 test-takers, only 1,491 will go to the next step - an interview with a consortium medical school.

Sit Assawaworarit from Triam Udom Suksa School emerged as the top scorer, with 79.12 out of 100 points. He has applied to Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Medicine.

The lowest score accepted by the consortium was 52.77 for Rangsit University's Faculty of Medicine.

http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/p ... ed#p161755

Special Report: Decoding the root of Thailand's education problem

Special Report: Decoding the root of Thailand's education problem

After the National Institute of Educational Testing Service (NETS) had announced the Ordinary National Educational Test (O-NET) scores, it was discovered that the majority of students were not able to score more than 50 percentile on the exam. This reflects that schools are still not teaching students how to critically think or analyse, which raises the question of whether Thailand's education system is going in the right direction.

Last week, after NETS had announced O-NET scores of grade 12 students for the 2008 academic year, the subject with the highest score was health, with an average score of 56.745 marks. Thai language followed with an average score of 46.415 marks while other subjects included art, work and occupational foundation, English, social studies, science and mathematics, respectively.

Based on the analysis of three classes of students, it was found that students could score no more than half of the total score even though the majority of questions in O-NET should have been achievable. It can be seen that the highest scoring subjects did not require neither calculation nor analysis. This showed that schools still taught students to memorise, rather than to think or analyse. After adjusting and comparing the scores of O-NET exams in the past four years, the average score of Thai students were not developing in any subjects. In other words, Thai students nationwide did not reflect any improvement and students had only one-third of the required knowledge.

Thailand has invested a lot in developing their educational system, as seen in their initiatives of the 15 year-study free programme, or with the the 44th Southeast Asian Ministers of Education Council Conference (SEAMEC) hosted by Thailand last week. The conference itself had set an educational target that all children must have access to good quality basic education within 2015. Thailand is also to chair the Community Learning Centre, which will greatly benefit the poor as well as children living in rural areas. Although these efforts demonstrate a strong commitment towards child and youth development, why is Thailand lagging behind in education compared to other countries?

From the interview with the National News Bureau of Thailand, Professor Dr. Supot Hannongbua, the Science Faculty Dean of Chulalongkorn University stated that the learning atmosphere should be taken into consideration. If teachers develop enjoyable teaching-learning activities, students will have more interest in what they are studying. Therefore, teachers are an important factor in developing their students’ competencies.

According to an education quality assessment made by the Office for National Education Standards and Quality Assessment (ONESQA), it is found that disqualified education institutions usually have problems in sub-standards teachers. Meanwhile, not enough importance is given to teachers. While teachers are paid such low salaries, it is difficult to be motivated. Teachers must also receive adequate training in order to be updated with new techniques of teaching. However, such dynamic teaching methods have not been widely supported.

If teachers lack the knowledge or motivation to develop a fun way of teaching, and students lack interest when it comes to learning, it is guaranteed that there will be many obstacles in the way of improving the quality of education in Thailand. Until the root of the problem is solved, there is not much promise for effective progress in the Thai educational system.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255204100002

[cfcmik]

Dunno bout Thai and Farlang edukashun systems but I believe there is a big disparity between
the Bangkok and Issan levels of schooling. A friends 7 year old daughter has just returned from a year or two in a Bangkok school. The girl is a country mile ahead of her classmates. But hey! its ok, you don't need an edukashun to grow rice or work bars.

[Stantheman]

I will agree, some what, with the posters who state that most Thai education systems are poor, maybe like the early 1900's in the west? My daughter went to Thai public school in Udon until we moved to the U.S. when she was halfway through the 8th grade. Due to her lack of knowledge in western history and english she (crying a lot) and her mother spent many a night up late trying to read our books, convert it to Thai to try and understand what she must learn for the class. But also we need to understand that the Thai education system focuses on different subjects then the west. Can you imagine a student from the U.S. trying to understand the subjects in thai schools? Another point I will make is about the math skills, most average Thai students in cities like Udon are far more advanced in math skills then in the west. When my daughter started 9th grade they placed her in beginning algebra, one week later them skipped her past algebra 1, geometry and but her in algebra 2, and when she started 10th grade she was taking College Algebra. All this due to her math skills from the Thai education system. And since I like to brag about her, she finished high school with a 4.123 GPA

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Dunno bout Thai and Farlang edukashun systems but I believe there is a big disparity between
the Bangkok and Issan levels of schooling. A friends 7 year old daughter has just returned from a year or two in a Bangkok school. The girl is a country mile ahead of her classmates. But hey! its ok, you don't need an edukashun to grow rice or work bars.

Nor, apparently, do you need an education to post on here.

[laphanphon]

let's' make sure we are talking private or gov't school, as the difference is night and day. i was actually impressed with some of the math the daughter was learning in private school in udon. but the the rest wasn't impressive at all. english is non existent.

[cfcmik]

Dunno bout Thai and Farlang edukashun systems but I believe there is a big disparity between
the Bangkok and Issan levels of schooling. A friends 7 year old daughter has just returned from a year or two in a Bangkok school. The girl is a country mile ahead of her classmates. But hey! its ok, you don't need an edukashun to grow rice or work bars.

Nor, apparently, do you need an education to post on here.

Tilo, I was trying to be ironic, but please dont let that get in the way of any other cheap shots you wish to take.

let's' make sure we are talking private or gov't school, as the difference is night and day. i was actually impressed with some of the math the daughter was learning in private school in udon. but the the rest wasn't impressive at all. english is non existent.

LA, I believe that both schools were Govt funded. The difference in the standard of education between Bangkok
and Udon schools is, IMO, part of the conspiracy to make sure Bangkok folk stay at the top of Thailands food chain.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Cheap...it was well-placed, ironic or not. 55555

[cfcmik]

Seems you do neither a sense of humOur nor a sense of irony.

[cfcmik]

Seems you do neither a sense of humOur nor a sense of irony.

Im a bit Leo-ed up, I will re-type that posting

Seems you have neither a sense of humoUr nor a sense of irony. There, does that make better sense?

[BKKSTAN]

My experience with the Thai ed system:

1.)No personal interest shown in the students education,no coordinated parent -teacher conferences,no counseling available or given,no motivational programs ,very few teaching plans to follow,no interactional learning between students and teachers,teachers often not in the classroom.

2.)Teachers ''teaching'' subjects that they have little experience or knowledge about,to many subjects,no labs or practice time,students are not taught to think or analyse,expected to memorize everything,many times classes performance is geared to the lowest performers in the class,homework assignments done in class and/or not handed in until most of the class has completed the work regardless of deadlines,books be disregarded because the majority of the class is not up to speed and can't grasp the material!

3.)Any attempts to ask about ,discuss or complain are thwarted with smiles,disdain,BS or outright contempt by admins and some teachers.In some cases ,directed to pursue outside tutoring and in some cases our daughter was graded down,even though she was doing the work and one of the only students studying!
It is very frustrating,when it feels like their is no recourse or accepted viable method to deal with problems.It seems to me,that self importance of admins and teachers is more important than the students!

[arjay]

Good assessment Stan.

What is the solution, if there is one? Private schools in Thailand are few and far between, and can be very expensive, particularly if "International".

If Thai children are educated in the country of their farang father or step father, assuming that is practical/viable, they then lose the opportunity to learn all the Thai cultural and behavioural side of things, as well as the family have to be able to, and want to live there. They may also learn aspects of western behaviour that are best avoided.

[jimboLV]

BKKSTAN, your description of the Thai educational system sounds exactly like the system I grew up under, in the Philadelphia USA parochial school system in the forties and fifties. A babysitting service with heavy religious indoctrination. And the same with my own kids in Colorado in the seventies minus the religious bit. So what's new? I have always thought that schools and teachers at the elementary and secondary levels are overrated as to the influence on the student. I didn't really start learning anything of an academic nature until I went to university.

I learned more from my older sisters and my contemporaries in street gangs than I ever learned in school. I don't know the answer except to say nurture your kids, show them lots of love and attention, open their eyes to the world around them, encourage them to dream, learn and explore. Maybe there are a few good teachers out there, but regard that as a bonus. Don't rely on some disinterested civil servant to guide their future.