Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

[DesertStorm]

If you read my OP, I was also on the ground there. In '91.

I was in an advanced forward unit.

What made me mad was how the US media portrayed the Elite Republican Guard as a bunch of high school girls.

Even after being battered by air and naval bombardments, they were still anything but a push over.

[nkstan]

So DS,are you ashamed that to did in the Republican guard?

[cookie]

I was on the ground there in Iraq for a year. I dont know if you would call me better informed but from what i could tell most of the insurgents fighting there were fighting against a foreign power on Iraqi soil and called themselves freedom fighters. Something to remember One man terrorist in anothers freedom fighter.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>[/quote]

or ask yourself: what would you do if you were occupied ??????

[Jockey]

The new war racket is to manufacture "terrorists" so you are continually raking in the money from the never ending wars, have an excuse to loot countries, Afghanistan gives the opportunity to be the largest drug dealers on the planet (CIA), and the middle east gives the western oil companies the ability to loot the oil.

Step 1 - Get your people on your side by creating a fake false flag terrorist attack (9/11 & London's 7/7).

Step 2 - Use the power of your controlled media to build up a frenzy of fear and hate against your targets (bogey men living in caves, weapons of mass destruction)

Step 3 - Use the organisation you had created earlier (CIA created Alo Qaeda) to find new recruits so you have something to fight against.

Step 4 - After you have invaded their country, bombed their homes, wiped out villages, looted their resources, polluted their land with depleted uranium, imprisoned and tortured their young men, humiliated and destroyed them in the name of "Freedom" you will find it easy to find new recruits to join your enemy and you can call them "terrorists and insurgents".

Next step - How to steal Iran's oil?????

It seems some people find that something to feel ashamed of and others are in denial and have no shame whatsoever. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way of the world.

[nkstan]

I was on the ground there in Iraq for a year. I dont know if you would call me better informed but from what i could tell most of the insurgents fighting there were fighting against a foreign power on Iraqi soil and called themselves freedom fighters. Something to remember One man terrorist in anothers freedom fighter.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

or ask yourself: what would you do if you were occupied ?????? [/quote]
Take civilian hostages,kill and torture all citizens that disagreed with my tactics,implore suicide bombers,plant indiscriminating roadside bombs,rail on about Imperialistic injustices,implore the UN to act in some deterring capacity,preach justification for my actions because I lack the military might of my occupiers that I insist not violate any proper military protocols that I don't apply to my resistance,for I am a ''FF'' and Allah wants my Nation under his throne and will reward me with many unused pussies for my faithfulness and fight agaisnt the occupiers!

What would you do ,cookie????

[Texpat]

Clearly the world did not regard Iraq with such praiseworthy and sympathetic terms before 2003. A lot of history revision going on here.

Anyway, it matters not. What's done is done. Whining won't change anything.

I suspect those nations that scurried off like scalded dogs when the going got rough are more than a little miffed that America stood fast and carried out the mission of liberating Iraq. Made 'em look like sissies.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

[Jockey]

America stood fast and carried out the mission of liberating Iraq.

Liberating Iraq? That's an interesting way to describe invading their country on false pretences, looting their oil, bombing their homes, wiping out their villages, polluting their land with depleted uranium, imprisoning and tortured their young men, humiliating and destroying them in the name of "liberating them"! Wow! I'm sure you must think these Iraqi's should be so grateful eh? How dare they decide to fight back! Maybe you think we should give them more "Shock and Awe" treatment. Maybe then they'll become more grateful to the Americans for "liberating" them.

[Texpat]

Like I said, it's a tough pill to swallow.
I would likely try to whittle the history into something a little more palatable, too, if I had wet my panties and run off like a girl.

Those that quit are now in full retreat, trying to simultaneously salve their wounds and minimize the successes of the liberation.

Must be quite a painful time, but you have to live with the decisions you've made.

[nkstan]

America stood fast and carried out the mission of liberating Iraq.

Liberating Iraq? That's an interesting way to describe invading their country on false pretences, looting their oil, bombing their homes, wiping out their villages, polluting their land with depleted uranium, imprisoning and tortured their young men, humiliating and destroying them in the name of "liberating them"! Wow! I'm sure you must think these Iraqi's should be so grateful eh? How dare they decide to fight back! Maybe you think we should give them more "Shock and Awe" treatment. Maybe then they'll become more grateful to the Americans for "liberating" them.

For what ever the reason,we did ''liberate'' them from the tyranny of Saddam,and there alot of Iraqis that are eternally grateful,but somehow I don't believe you have the capacity to see that part,as your mind seems focused only on what you want to dump on about.Also,maybe you can enlighten us on how we lootrd there oil????
And in case you didn't know,the majority of Iraqis did not fight us or fight back!!

[Jockey]

maybe you can enlighten us on how we lootrd there oil????

On July 27, 2010 the office of the U.S. Special Investigator for Iraq Reconstruction released a report that states the Pentagon cannot account for an astounding 95 percent of at least $9.1 billion in Iraqi funds that it seized when U.S. forces conquered Iraq and dismantled its government in 2003. A total of $8.7 billion has disappeared from the “Development Fund for Iraq.”

L. Paul Bremer, the head of the Civilian Provisional Authority, who ruled Iraq as a virtual dictator for the 15 months following the April 2003 occupation of the country, set up the DFI. Its funds came from frozen Iraqi assets in the United States and other countries and sales from Iraq’s then-nationalized oil fields.

Did Bremer, the Pentagon and their corporate cronies like Halliburton engage in massive looting? Not according to the corporate media. The Special Inspector General’s report does not even allege any crime has been committed. “The breakdown in controls left the funds vulnerable to inappropriate uses and undetected loss,” the audit states, describing theft on an unimaginable scale in the blandest possible terms.

The report about the DFI is just the tip of a very big iceberg. The primary target of the corporate looters and the government and military that serves them is Iraq’s vast oil fields. Iraq ranks among the top three countries in the world in petroleum reserves. When it was a British colony from 1920 to 1958, Iraq’s oil was 100 percent foreign-owned—British, Dutch, French and U.S. oil companies each had a 23.75 percent share. While companies today known as BP, Chevron, Total, Shell, and so on profited from the country’s rich resources, the vast majority of Iraqis suffered from extreme poverty and 80 to 90 percent illiteracy, with little chance of ever seeing a doctor.

Following the 1958 revolution, which put an end to British domination, Iraq’s oil was nationalized. Oil revenues served as the basis for the modernization of the country and dramatic improvements in life for a great part of the population.

The 2003 U.S.-British invasion and occupation returned Iraq to the status of a colony. A primary and openly stated objective of the occupation forces has been the de-nationalization of Iraq’s oil and the opening up of the country to unlimited economic exploitation by U.S. and other transnational corporations—regardless of the human cost. And that cost has been very high.

An estimated 1.2 million Iraqis have been killed since 2003 and millions more wounded or made refugees. Living conditions in most of the country are worse now than even during the period of the sanctions and blockade that preceded the occupation. One bitter irony is that in a country with vast energy resources, there are chronic fuel shortages and in many areas constant electricity blackouts.

More than 4,300 U.S. troops have been killed, and hundreds of thousands have suffered severe physical or psychological wounds. The cost of the war has surpassed $700 billion—$700,000,000,000—and will rise into the trillions.

All of this death, destruction and waste of resources is to secure Iraq for the benefit of the same oil, banking and other corporate criminals who are looting the environment and economy here.

Source = Global Research Articles by Richard Becker

[Texpat]

I've noticed over the past few weeks on several web boards to which I belong, many non-Americans are starting into this same fevered pitch. They've been largely silent for the past year while US troops were held mostly inside bases and did very little patrolling.
Suddenly though, they're demonizing America fast and furiously.
It's as if they're compensating for some perceived event now that the US-led war in Iraq is over. They're desperate to minimize the successes and highlight the failures. Facts be damned, they're desperately rewriting history as their emotional, spittle-fueled tirades dictate.

I'm telling ya, there are a lot of petty, insecure people out there. They would much rather see Iraq crumble into complete chaos than admit anything positive has come of this.

Sad little idiots.

America, hell yeah!

[DermotC]

Texpat,

I know where you are coming from for sure. I still have alot of friends in the states and most of them would be republican, like yourself?

Personally, Im annoyed the U.S. have pulled combat troops out of Iraq. There is still a large U.S. presence there however with about 50,000 still on bases scattered throughout Iraq. The reason Im worried is I think think things will flare up again and Obama, the most un presidential president Ive ever seen is pulling out to apease the voters!

He has also given a deadline for pulling troops out of Afganistan! Now if I were a taliban member Id be hiding out in the hills until the Americans pulled out, then just go offer the Afganistan Army a few quid and then the country will be right back where it started! I cant understand Obama, weather is anyone opinion that it was right or wrong, shouldnt they stay and complete the mission(s) and honour the fallen dead?

[DesertStorm]

So DS,are you ashamed that to did in the Republican guard?

No. My actions saved the lives of our young infantry.

But I didn't particulalrly care for what the Allied air forces did on the road to Basra.

I'm ashamed that our politicians are controlled by multinational corporations, however.

[Texpat]

To be fair, the Iraq drawdown schedule was in place before Bobo became commander-in-chief.
And it has remained largely unchanged. Remember, the Iraqis were strongly in favor of that timeline as well.

It's been more than five years (Jan 2005) since Iraq held its first round of elections.

Time to take the training wheels off.

[firsttimebangkok]

Pulling out to apease the voters....hey isn't that his job isn't the States a democracy!!!! He is supposed to work for the people, and the people want their president to focus on the US, and the US economy and jobs. Get a grip....

[DermotC]

I completely understand the comment about taking the training wheels off too! Im just worried its WAY too soon. Im also worried the the U.S. hasnt learned from previous mistakes, i.e. leaving Iraq to itself after desert storm and leaving afganistan to its own devices once the rooskeys had pulled out.

Personally i think you guys will be back in another 10 or 20 years time and if history is anything to go by, another 10 or 20 years after that and so on!

I certainly dont think America or its allies are any safer, in fact I think they are more unsafe now than they ever were!

[DermotC]

In answer to your question FirsttimeBangkok, the presidents Job is not to apease the voters, its to do the best thing for the Country and its people despite what they think. If you need any examples of this look down through American History.

If Every leader of every country did what their voters wanted everytime the world would fall apart! We elect our officials, who should be much better and more informed than us to make those decisions for us. That is democracy!

[jackspratt]

I certainly dont think America or its allies are any safer, in fact I think they are more unsafe now than they ever were!

Bit of a circular argument isn't it.

We'll invade Iraq on a number of (ever growing) pretexts, including that it will make the world safer from terrorists.

Oops!

[jackspratt]

Like I said, it's a tough pill to swallow.
I would likely try to whittle the history into something a little more palatable, too, if I had wet my panties and run off like a girl.

Those that quit are now in full retreat, trying to simultaneously salve their wounds and minimize the successes of the liberation.

Must be quite a painful time, but you have to live with the decisions you've made.

Or as the Iraqi's are saying, made for us. Sigh!

Good to see your hyperbole and rhetoric in full flight today Tex.

[firsttimebangkok]

Really is that the definition of democracy. Maybe look it up.....

Sounds like communism to me......The States are always barking about too much government!!!! well I guess thats BS unless we are talking about businesses and making the rich, richer gotta love your democracy run by capitalists that don't care about americans, just care about the buck