Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

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panick
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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by panick » September 17, 2010, 1:29 am

DesertStorm wrote:
nkstan wrote:
Wouldn't be surprised to see Iran control Iraq one of these days!
Not while our glorious multinationals own 80% of Iraq.

And let's face it, that was all the invasion and occupation was about.
1,000,000 people killed (quoted from your 1st post) ... Does that mean you killed 800,000 multinational employees during 'Desert storm'? 8-[



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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by KHONDAHM » September 19, 2010, 3:50 am

Moore's post sums it all up for me, too. I thought my fellow countrymen and women were (and still are) so nuts that I officially moved to Thailand soon after Bush was elected. After the invasion, I remember visiting and having passionate discussions with people who would often say "Well if you don't agree (and therefore are unpatriotic), then why don't you leave?". To which I would retort: "Errrrr...I did."

Do I now feel vindicated? No. Why? Because there remain more than enough nuts in positions of power and influence for it to happen again. Tea Party and Republicans. The majority of Democrats are still too wimpy and gullible to stop it from happening again. In fact most who voted for the wars are STILL in office. Boggles the mind how Americans sweep things under the blood-stained rug...

The litmus test will be November elections. If Republicans take over either house in Congress, you can bet your a** the potential for another airhead Village Idiot like Palin could potentially have a shot at the Presidency.

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by cookie » September 19, 2010, 11:45 am

KHONDAHM wrote: Because there remain more than enough nuts in positions of power and influence for it to happen again. Tea Party and Republicans. The majority of Democrats are still too wimpy and gullible to stop it from happening again. In fact most who voted for the wars are STILL in office.

a gallup pole seems to confirm that most americans agree with your statement

http://www.gallup.com/poll/143051/Ameri ... Party.aspx
Americans' desires for a third political party are as high as they have been in seven years. Fifty-eight percent of Americans believe a third major political party is needed because the Republican and Democratic Parties do a poor job of representing the American people. That is a significant increase from 2008 and ties the high Gallup has recorded for this measure since 2003.

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by KHONDAHM » September 19, 2010, 12:58 pm

I do feel that if Obama is re-elected, there could be real progress domestically and in matters of foreign policy. What he has accomplished thus far is simply and amply amazing. There is a huge mess to clean up and it will take more than one term to accomplish. So far, he has prioritized and systematically accomplished a lot on his campaign to do list and making progress toward getting us out of Iraq and Afghanistan completely.

I watched the Biden interview on Rachel Maddow (the show FOX zealots SHOULD be watching - freely available online) this past week wherein he addressed a lo of the "why hasn't this or that happened yet?" questions. The simple answer is because of compromises they have to make to get the votes to make things happen. So to get votes for A, they have to compromise on B, then compromise on C to get B through absent the compromises, so on and so on. It's politics and it will take another term to see things through.

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by cookie » September 20, 2010, 10:37 am

KHONDAHM wrote: The simple answer is because of compromises they have to make to get the votes to make things happen. So to get votes for A, they have to compromise on B, then compromise on C to get B through absent the compromises, so on and so on. It's politics and it will take another term to see things through.
it seems that Clinton 100% agrees with you:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09 ... ng-groove/
President Obama "was socked by the intensity of Republican opposition" in the past 20 months, but is "getting his groove back," former President Bill Clinton said Sunday.

Obama earned some friends across the aisle while he was in the Senate and pledged not to investigate the Bush administration, but he was wrong to think his presidency would attract some Republican support in Congress as a result, Clinton said.
But Republicans have adopted the successful strategy of 1993 and 1994 when they won the congressional majority for the first time in 40 years. That strategy, he said, is to reject everything that the majority party stands for, even if it is good for the country.
"They learned from my first two years that, if you just say no, even though people hate it, you get rewarded for it because it discourages the Democrats and it inflames your base. So they're doing just what they did in '93 and '94. And so far it appears that they're being rewarded for it," he said.

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by cookie » September 23, 2010, 11:50 am

as I mentioned before,
the Iraq war was a wanted, unnecessary and badly executed war!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
as always in history, the truth will come out slowly, step by step.
the biggest problem is that people tend to forget fast, or even try to rewrite history :evil: :evil:

in any case, here are some more revelations of deceit by Bush and his war hawks:

(of course you will find that some people will even try to deny declassified documents... :D :D :D

in short,
these are the first official declassified documents that show that president George W. Bush's advisers focused on toppling Saddam Hussein's regime as soon as he took office and discussed how to justify a war in Iraq shortly after invading Afghanistan in 2001.

the truth =D> =D> =D> =D>

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/
Declassified Documents Show Bush Administration Diverting Attention and Resources to Iraq Less than Two Months after Launch of Afghanistan War
Following instructions from President George W. Bush to develop an updated war plan for Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ordered CENTCOM Commander Gen. Tommy Franks in November 2001 to initiate planning for the “decapitation” of the Iraqi government and the empowerment of a “Provisional Government” to take its place.
Talking points for the Rumsfeld-Franks meeting on November 27, 2001, released through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), confirm that policy makers were already looking for ways to justify invading Iraq – as indicated by Rumsfeld’s first point, “Focus on WMD.”
Rumsfeld’s notes were prepared in close consultation with senior DOD officials Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith. Among other insights, the materials posted today by the National Security Archive shed light on the intense focus on Iraq by high-level Bush administration officials long before the attacks of 9/11, and Washington’s confidence in perception management as a successful strategy for overcoming public and allied resistance to its plans.
This compilation further shows:

* The preliminary strategy Rumsfeld imparted to Franks while directing him to develop a new war plan for Iraq
* Secretary of State Powell’s awareness, three days into a new administration, that Iraq “regime change” would be a principal focus of the Bush presidency
* Administration determination to exploit the perceived propaganda value of intercepted aluminum tubes – falsely identified as nuclear related – before completion of even a preliminary determination of their end use
* The difficulty of winning European support for attacking Iraq (except that of British Prime Minister Tony Blair) without real evidence that Baghdad was implicated in 9/11
* The State Department’s analytical unit observing that a decision by Tony Blair to join a U.S. war on Iraq “could bring a radicalization of British Muslims, the great majority of whom opposed the September 11 attacks but are increasingly restive about what they see as an anti-Islamic campaign”
* Pentagon interest in the perception of an Iraq invasion as a “just war” and State Department insights into the improbability of that outcome

also interesting info from these notes:
In a December 18, 2001 memo, the State Department's analytical unit warns that France and Germany will likely oppose an invasion of Iraq without concrete proof that Baghdad was behind the 9/11 attacks.

The same memo warns that British support for a US war would come at a political cost for the prime minister, Tony Blair, and could trigger a backlash from the country's Muslim population.

Backing the US war "could bring a radicalization of British Muslims, the great majority of whom opposed the September 11 attacks but are increasingly restive about what they see as an anti-Islamic campaign," the memo states.
it seems that in this case, the intelligence wasn't wrong at all, in fact they were 100% right (pity that they were so wrong about the WMD :D :D :D :D or weren't they????? :D :D :D
Another document shows Rumsfeld discussing war plans for Iraq just two months after the 2001 US invasion of Afghanistan.

In a meeting with the then head of US Central Command, General Tommy Franks, the defense chief tells him to ready forces for the "decapitation" of the Iraqi regime.

In talking points dated November 27, Rumsfeld lists possible triggers the Bush administration could use to start a war, including Iraqi military action against the US-protected enclave in northern Iraq, discovery of ties between Saddam and 9/11 or recent anthrax attacks and disputes with UN weapons inspections.
Forecasting an optimistic outcome far from the result the Iraq war produced, Rumsfeld said that Washington's image in the region and the world would benefit from toppling Saddam.

"If Saddam's regime were ousted, we would have a much-improved position in the region and elsewhere," he wrote. "A major success in Iraq would enhance US credibility and influence throughout the region."

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
I wonder how Rumsfeld & co. will write about this in their memories????? :shock: :shock: :( :(
In June and July of 2001, senior administration officials seized on intercepted aluminum tubes as proof that Iraq was pursuing nuclear weapons, even before a preliminary assessment of the tubes, according to two State Department memos to then secretary of state Colin Powell.
One memo states the US government's interest in "publicizing the interdiction to our advantage" and "getting the right story out" about the tubes, which were soon found to have no nuclear connection.
:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: more deceit, more lies,
these war criminals belong in jail and they should throw away the keys :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
but as always, the powerful are immune from consequences it seems :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
The ruling class is immune from the consequences, no punishments....and most likely, this will all be forgotten very soon.... :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Even more,
there is nothing new here,
even more,
people that called these deceits out years ago were branded as traitors, Bush-haters, USA haters,....
France and Germany were called "old Europe'
and "french fries" were banned in the restaurant of the US senate (I wonder if this is still the case???? :D :D :D )
Hell, I was called on this forum a Bush hater because I pointed to these deceits years ago :roll: :roll:


more documents will be declassified soon
The following two – featuring newly available British government documents – will treat the question of whether the Bush administration ever seriously considered alternative strategies for Iraq and how the U.S. and Great Britain attempted to sell the war strategy to the world.

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Texpat
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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by Texpat » September 23, 2010, 2:28 pm

The US (UK and France) had tens of thousands of troops in Saudi Arabia and Turkey enforcing UN sanctions on Iraq for more than a decade. Do you imagine that was all free? Was somebody else footing that bill?
The plan for regime change was not Bush's idea. It was widely being touted by Clinton's SecState, Albright, and DefMin Robertson as early as 1999. Look it up. I was there and listened to their speeches.

The coalition's invasion of Afghanistan was to occur regardless of any other concurrent events. It was time the nonsense over Iraq ended and it became more militarily expedient to get on with regime change than continue playing Saddam's game while executing a war in Afghanistan.

So they pulled the trigger. No smoke, no mirrors.

Afghanistan and Iraq -- two different events -- yeah, I know, it's difficult to imagine. :roll:

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by Texpat » September 23, 2010, 2:40 pm

December 19, 1998: Clinton Administration Confirms Support for Regime Change in Iraq
Edit event

Secretary of State Madeleine Albright confirms that the Clinton administration now endorses “regime change” in Iraq, essentially supporting the ouster of Saddam Hussein (see October 31, 1998). Merely containing Hussein, adds National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, “is not sustainable over the long run.”

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.js ... e_albright

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by jackspratt » September 23, 2010, 8:38 pm

Just for the record: regime change does not equal illegal invasion.

No need to say any more really. [-(

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by Texpat » September 24, 2010, 12:03 am

So where does one get the permission slip?
The UN? hahahahah!

You're just mad nobody asked you.

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by cookie » September 24, 2010, 1:35 pm

These dfeclasified documents clearly and undeniably prove for once and for all that Bush lied the World into the war in Iraq.
The WMD excuse were a lie
These documents prove that Bush &co were setting up a SCAM to get into war in Iraq.
These documents prove undeniably that Bush lied us into this war.
At least this is clear for now and the spin we had in the past ( WMD, spreading democracy, getting rid of a dictator,...)can stop now for once and for all.... This was a wanted,unnecessary (illegal), pre-emptive war !!!!!!!
it was all lies because the decision to go to war with iraq was already made.
The american people, the media and the world were lied into this war.
people that didn't agree with these lies were branded as "USA-haters" by the american media and others...

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by Texpat » September 24, 2010, 2:49 pm

WMDs were one of many considerations -- and not even the primary one.
If fragile minds can't help but focus on that single factor, well, they can't be helped. It aids them toward thinking what they wish to be true.

It also helps to ignore the fact that nearly the entire Democratically controlled Congress agreed Saddam must go (whoops!)
It also helps to ignore the fact that it wasn't Bush's idea -- it started under Clinton -- another Democrat. (darn!)
And dozens of coalition nations also agreed Saddam must go.

The Bush OCD is strong. It serves as an elixir to help those suffering to believe that which facts do not support.

But keep believing -- someday it might come true.

(don't hold your breath, facts aren't on your side -- but your fantasies should provide some comfort)

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by cookie » September 24, 2010, 4:04 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by KHONDAHM » September 25, 2010, 12:49 pm

Texpat,

Your revisionist mind tricks only work on the misinformed, the gullible, the bitter, and the under-educated. In other words, Fox's core demographic audience.

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A Blast From the Past

Post by jackspratt » March 19, 2013, 8:05 am

The man who led Australian forces during the Iraq war says that, 10 years later, he is not sure if the conflict made the world a safer place.

More than 100,000 civilians are reported to have died in the decade since US and allied forces rolled into Iraq to unseat dictator Saddam Hussein.........

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-19/c ... ar/4581120
WARNING - the following video contain lies, self-serving nonsense and humiliating, hubristic footage. It is recommended you have a bucket nearby as you watch it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-19/b ... ar/4581414

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Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by UdonExpat » March 20, 2013, 10:24 pm

With the 10 year anniversary of the Iraq War there's lot's of retrospectives available on the rationale for war and it's effects. None of the following are pleasurable reading. It hurts to know how we were deceived, mislead, and ultimately made to pay, in many ways, for what are arguably the criminal actions of our leaders.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/03 ... elligence/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz ... 01641.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-a ... 04285.html

http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/the_la ... _20130318/

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KHONDAHM
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Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by KHONDAHM » March 22, 2013, 11:42 pm

Enjoy this site much more by adding idiots to your ignore list (Friends & Foes tab).
http:\\www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/ucp.php? ... &mode=foes

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Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by KHONDAHM » March 23, 2013, 12:16 am

Meh...better yet...

Enjoy this site much more by adding idiots to your ignore list (Friends & Foes tab).
http:\\www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/ucp.php? ... &mode=foes

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Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by jackspratt » March 23, 2013, 2:09 pm

Thanks for the link KD.

The most frightening thing for me (besides the content) is the fact that despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the evil baarstards who perpetrated this still believe they did the right thing, and know they will never be bought to account.

Along with the 2 main poodles, Blair and Howard.

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Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

Post by Zidane » March 23, 2013, 4:16 pm

When he stepped down as PM,Blair became Peace Envoy for the Middle East,a role he has held for over 5 years now.
Just look at the chaos and turmoil in the Middle East today.....'enuff said ! :(
Just when I thought our chance had passed,you go and save the best for last.

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