Does anyone else feel ashamed about what we did in Iraq?

[KHONDAHM]

On behalf of the MAJORITY of my fellow Americans who were too busy watching "Dancing With The Stars" and reality TV to pay attention - thus allowing the fringe minority destroy our position, credibility, and goodwill:

We're sorry! Please accept my apology to the world for 8 years of the Village Idiot and the mess he and his cohorts made of things.

Obama is doing his best to set things right, but is being shafted and obstructed at every opportunity so long as Republicans control the House of Representatives (and the purse strings). If Democrats can overcome the gerrymandered re-districting Republicans devised which allows them to maintain control of the House despite not having the majority of votes and wrest control in 2014, his final two years will be a flurry of positive and popular reforms and initiatives deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize he won following his first election as POTUS.

[merchant seaman]

You can't be for real. Joe Biden has done more as Vice President then Obama could only wish for. At least Biden can work with Congress.

[KHONDAHM]

Surprise, surprise, surprise. It's tin foil hat time. Amuse me.

[luangtom]

I think that a fairly large share of US citizens do not have anything good to say about either the reign of Bush II or of Obama. Neither has lived up to their billing. The "change" we were to see has never occurred. Transparency? What is that? Doing what is right? What is that?

We have a legislature that passed a bill years ago to implement "sequester". It was to have cut spending in ALL areas of government. Yet, it is not being done. We hear "sequester" as the reason school children cannot tour the White House. Yet, we have a President and First-family that are going on a $60 to $100-million family-vacation to Africa. Where is the spending-cut there?

Though, it has been written that the WMD that were said to have been in Iraq earlier by the Clinton administration and followed by the Bush administration, those weapons are most likely what are surfacing in Syria now. Surprised? Not in the least. No, I am not ashamed of what we did in Iraq? I am ashamed of what we are doing in every country that we have personnel in. Why are we obliged to have personnel in over 100 foreign countries?

Domestically, we could use those funds spent in those 100 foreign countries. We currently spend $338-Billion on health, education, food-stamps and housing for illegal immigrants. Try going to the streets in Thailand as a foreigner and demanding more benefits from their government. I am ashamed of what our country is doing. Period.

[KHONDAHM]

The right wing cuckoo club seems to still be confusing the location of this long-debunked myth. There is a Taj Mahal mausoleum in Agra, but the trip was to India. Agra = Africa in nuttyville, but the cuckoo club doesn't let facts get in the way of a good Obama bashing.

http://snopes.com/politics/obama/india.asp

If Obama were the dictator the cuckoo club makes him out to be, I'm sure all his campaign promises would have been realized by now and America would be in a much better position. Thank goodness for those Republicans in the House and Senate being able to obstruct everything he tries to get through. Even the laws originally conceived and supported by Republicans. If Obama's for it, it's a good thing Republicans are there to be against it and then crow about nothing being done.

Well, I gotta go break all the windows now and then bytch about how my wife is always leaving them open.

Cheers!

[luangtom]

Haffta say that no matter how long I do not visit this site, you certainly brighten my day with your quips when I return. Too bad the rest of the world is not like you. What a fine place it would be. Thanks for making my day. I do apologize for the world not conforming to your standards.

[jackspratt]

The gift from Bush (plus Blair and Howard) that just keeps on giving and giving to the democratically liberated citizens of Iraq:

Mosul: Iraqi PM Nouri al-Maliki calls for state of emergency after insurgents take control

Iraq's prime minister Nuri al-Maliki has asked parliament to declare a state of emergency in the northern city of Mosul after it was seized by insurgents.

Radical Sunni Muslim militants took control of most of the city, Iraq's second largest, overrunning a military base and freeing thousands of prisoners in a spectacular strike against the Shiite-led government.

The capture of Mosul by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) - an offshoot of Al Qaeda - and its allies followed four days of fierce fighting in Mosul and other cities and towns in the northern Iraq province of Nineveh.

In a statement broadcast on state TV, Mr Maliki said the Iraqi government will provide weapons and equipment to citizens who volunteer to fight against militants.

He said the cabinet had "created a special crisis cell to follow up on the process of volunteering and equipping and arming".

Witnesses say many locals are now fleeing, among them army troops who have abandoned their posts.

The United Nation's International Organisation for Migration said violence in recent days has "displaced over 500,000 Iraqis within and outside the city of Mosul"...............

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-10/i ... ul/5514000

[TJ]

While Libya is clearly to most obvious recent f**k up. The U.S. should never had military advertures in Iraq or other Middle East nations. After some readings of history and politics, the U.S. should have not been involved in Vietnam or Korea IMO.

FDR should not have forced the Japanese to attack the U.S. Wilson should never have extended WWI.

Not that I am a peace freak, but it was never in the interest of U.S. citizens and it greatly made these wars worse for all concerned.

[BigBubba]

Yes, a sad state of affairs for the citizens of Mosul. These are the Kurds who rose up against Sadam Hussein after Gulf War I, and the U.S. failed to support, resulting in the mass gassing incident. Not much hope for peace there, ever. The Sunnis and Shias hate each other. They are still mad about one of Abraham's son's killing his brother. How many years ago was that?

[Astana]

Yes, a sad state of affairs for the citizens of Mosul. These are the Kurds who rose up against Sadam Hussein after Gulf War I, and the U.S. failed to support, resulting in the mass gassing incident. Not much hope for peace there, ever. The Sunnis and Shias hate each other. They are still mad about one of Abraham's son's killing his brother. How many years ago was that?

The Shia uprising was one of many major points of unrest in Iraq following Gulf War I. The uprising started after demoralized troops throughout Iraq began to rebel against Saddam Hussein. After the failure of the uprising, Iraqi citizens were killed in large numbers, particularly in Shia areas but no NBC agent(s) were used.

When you refer to the Kurds I believe you refer to the Halabja Massacre, a genocidal massacre against the Kurdish people that took place on March 16, 1988, during the closing days of the Iran–Iraq War in the Kurdish city of Halabja in Southern Kurdistan. The attack was part of the Al-Anfal campaign in northern Iraq, as well as part of the Iraqi attempt to repel the Iranian Operation Zafar 7.

[rjj04]

They catch some African "war criminal" and put him on trial... meanwhile the biggest war criminals sit in their comfy homes in western countries. The Bush family, Kissinger, and all the rest of them are still shown respect and admiration rather than the loathing that they deserve. Until this changes, we will continue to be led down the garden path..

[socksy]

Now the Militant's have taken control of the 'second' city of Tikrit. Will the USA/UK or anyone else intervene before they arrive at Baghdad only 150km away?

[rick]

Now only 100km ......

[FrazeeDK]

woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't change the situation now.. I don't think anybody has access to some interdimensional portal to see what happened in some other timeline with Saddam still in power.

The ISIL militants that are spear-heading this operation are funded/armed from somebody, probably the Gulf State Sunnis and Saudis.. The Iraqis have their own internal power struggles between Shia and Sunnis..

My prediction: U.S. air support using drones and smart bombs with either Turkish or "contractor" forward controllers.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I thought Colin Powell was the man responsible for the debacle in Iraq? 55+

[bumper]

Far to much to catch up on this one. That was a different time in history, just as Vietnam was. There was no domino effect, But, that was what was believed was going to happen in those days.

Hind sight is 20/20 No soldier has anything to be ashamed of, simply because they participated, after being ordered to do so.

Those decisions are made above their pay grade.

Western Nations seem to get sucked into these things for one reason or another.

One of those damned if you do and damned if you don't things.

As to this particular region they have been fighting for thousands of years and they will continue to do so. No matter what the Western Nations do.

If the people who made these decisions were put on the battle line, there would probably be far less wars.

There is no right answer to this. The girls kidnapped, yes it's terrible so where is the point your Nation should be involved. Darned if I know.

Cities in Iraq being taken over.

Kuwait I believe that to be have been the right things to do. Letting enough of the Army escape right move, to maintain the balance of power in the region.

The Second time around, lots of mistakes that removed the balance of power in the region and here we are today.

No doubt Sadam was ruthless and chemicle weapons were used on the kurds. Does that make the resulting action's worthwhile. To far above my pay grade.

War is never good nor fair.

[Earnest]

Mr Bliar on the BBC this morning...



'Iraq? Nothing to do with me.'

[redwolf]

I was wondering where individual Of Clubs, ol' red, Saddam's #3 guy Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, co-leader of the Baathist coup in 68', was all these years. Hanging out in Syria and his home region no doubt.

izzat-al-dourijpg-6d12eddaccdbb5ca_medium.jpg (12.5 KiB) Viewed 1788 times

Pretty good job of hiding, planning and now executing his plan to emerge from hising and fill the political vacuum once ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi finishes the offensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/world ... .html?_r=1

As the dimensions of the assault began to become clear, it was evident that a number of militant groups had joined forces, including Baathist military commanders from the Hussein era, whose goal is to rout the government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki. One of the Baathists, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, was a top military commander and a vice president in the Hussein government and one of the few prominent Baathists to evade capture by the Americans throughout the occupation.

“These groups were unified by the same goal, which is getting rid of this sectarian government, ending this corrupt army and negotiating to form the Sunni Region,” said Abu Karam, a senior Baathist leader and a former high-ranking army officer, who said planning for the offensive had begun two years ago. “The decisive battle will be in northern Baghdad. These groups will not stop in Tikrit and will keep moving toward Baghdad.”

also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izzat_Ibrahim_al-Douri

Following the execution of former President Saddam Hussein on 30 December 2006, Al-Douri was confirmed as the new leader of the banned Iraqi Ba'ath Party on 3 January 2007.

So basically the same folks will be in charge of running the region, Baathists. I bet Assad is smiling eh? Until he realizes ISIS isn't giving back Eastern Syria.

oh and Al Douri is a major leader of the Naqshbandi Sect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqshbandi

Naqshbandi (an-Naqshbandiyyah, Nakşibendi, Naksibendi, Naksbandi) is a major spiritual order of Sunni Islam Sufism. It is the only Sufi way that traces its spiritual lineage to the Islamic prophet Muhammad, through Abu Bakr, the first Caliph and Muhammad's companion. Some Naqshbandi orders trace their lineage through Ali,[1] Muhammad's cousin, son-in-law and the fourth Caliph, in keeping with most other Sufi paths.

-All this data points to the possibility that while ISIS and all other jihadist fighting groups have problems running the areas they take over, that in this situation, there's a political, religious, military and tribal setup already in place to run the country (or a new country) once ISIS fighters assume control.

Boundaries might be like this:

Iran better open up it's borders fast to fleeing Shiites as this one's gonna be a real mess. Now they get to deal with an ultra-unstable neighbor after years of meddling.

Not seeing why the US needs to jump in though, and not seeing at all any way the US can be shamed for any of this.

The belligerents in this case have hated one another for centuries.

[Jing Jing]

Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani ‎on Friday announced that all Iraqis should join the national army.His word counts. He's the highest Shia religious authority in the country and as such is the spiritual guide for millions of Shia in this country, but his statement was meant to include all Iraqis not just Shia

The borders between Iran and Iraq are open because Iran is Shia and Shia's holy sites are in Iraq.ISIS has threatned to destroy all Shia holy sites. I think this has sealed their fate. Iran's Rohani will support Iraq's shia.

Before invading any country please read and commit to memory The Prince and The Art of War. Apparently B & B slept through this class or only read the Cliff Notes.

[Aardvark]

Let them sort it out themselves. The Middle East is a mess and always will be .... http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/iraq-is ... 6955910471