Feelings about anti-American drivel

[bigwavedave]

THERE WAS NO THREAT TO THE WEST from iraq but there was a grave threat from Afghaistan and Osama!!!!!! The US and Uk Intelligence was used by all nations to determine wether it was right to invade Iraq...It WAS WRONG..... i can bet my house that if they knew then what they know now e.g. the truth!!! they wouldnt go in.. The thing is people in decision making roles knew before we went in that there were no WMD... Put any spin on it you want... Evidence of terrorism that was a grave threat so grave that it is worth the lives of thousands of western soldiers in Iaq before the war??? Even you are believing this B/S.... Evidence of terrorists and Nonevidence of WMD does not justify the killing of thousands and thousands of US and British soldiers... or does it????
Their neighbors did cry about the invasion but USA has the largest army in the world...along with the coalition forces, what do you think they could do about it????

Maybe im wrong but surely Osama and his people were and proved to be a much more grave and proven threat to the west??? so why did Bush push for an iraq war, and take long enough for osama to develop a space progrm and fly to the moon before actually going after him in Afghanistan..?

But the bottom line is the whole world knows what happened in iraq and the lies that justified it to begin with... Even americans and brits on this board...

[BobHelm]

AH, Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel...
OK all is now clear. This may come as a little of a surprise but every Arab nation has supported (financially & morally) the Palestinians against Israel. This has NOTHING to do with 7/11 and al-Qaeda even if 100% true. These reports stem from a story dated 1 year before the second Gulf War. So at least 1 year for Saddam to deliver WMD if he so wished to do. But of course he hadn't & didn't because he didn't have them by them...

[WBU ALUM]

THERE WAS NO THREAT TO THE WEST from iraq but there was a grave threat from Afghaistan and Osama!!!!!! The US and Uk Intelligence was used by all nations to determine wether it was right to invade Iraq...It WAS WRONG..... i can bet my house that if they knew then what they know now e.g. the truth!!! they wouldnt go in.. The thing is people in decision making roles knew before we went in that there were no WMD... Put any spin on it you want... Evidence of terrorism that was a grave threat so grave that it is worth the lives of thousands of western soldiers in Iaq before the war??? Even you are believing this B/S.... Evidence of terrorists and Nonevidence of WMD does not justify the killing of thousands and thousands of US and British soldiers... or does it????
Their neighbors did cry about the invasion but USA has the largest army in the world...along with the coalition forces, what do you think they could do about it????

Maybe im wrong but surely Osama and his people were and proved to be a much more grave and proven threat to the west??? so why did Bush push for an iraq war, and take long enough for osama to develop a space progrm and fly to the moon before actually going after him in Afghanistan..?

But the bottom line is the whole world knows what happened in iraq and the lies that justified it to begin with... Even americans and brits on this board...

I think if you disagree with the information I provided, it is your choice.

I don't recall one leader of any surrounding country complaining about the invasion of Iraq. Had there been, a microphone was ready to be thrust into his face to let him speak as long and as loudly as he could. It didn't happen. Neighbors wanted Saddam gone, but due to the fact that many of the lower classes in their countries admire and revere terrorists, the involvement of these Moslem countries was very silent and behind the scenes.

If you can get past the WMD stuff and hating Bush and the claims of lies, what do you propose that the world do with terrorists who want to kill us? And please, if you can, just answer that one question.

[WBU ALUM]

AH, Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel...
OK all is now clear. This may come as a little of a surprise but every Arab nation has supported (financially & morally) the Palestinians against Israel. This has NOTHING to do with 7/11 and al-Qaeda even if 100% true. These reports stem from a story dated 1 year before the second Gulf War. So at least 1 year for Saddam to deliver WMD if he so wished to do. But of course he hadn't & didn't because he didn't have them by them...

I never said it had anything to do with 7/11 or 9/11 or anything else. I just stated that it was happening and that Saddam's threat to the US would not be direct. You asked for sources. I provided them. Don't move the goalposts.

[bigwavedave]

what do you propose that the world do with terrorists who want to kill us? Thats easy!!!! Unlike GWB i'd go after them and kill them!!!! Its not Bush hating its fact!!! The threat from terrorists came from Afghanistan and Osama, not some arab suicide bomber in Isreal... That isnt the justificatin to go to war is it???? You said the reason we went to war was because saddam had terrorists and maybe wmd and 1+1= Grave threat to US.... Then you justified the terrorist link with a report that had nothing to do with the war in iraq.. So far no proof of terrorists in iraq (That are a threat to US)and no proof of wmd in iraq... So why did we go to war and so many have to die again?????

[BobHelm]

There was further concern that if he did have WMDs that he would make them available to terrorists who would bring them to the US and use them.

No "goal post" move by me.... just zero justification for that belief....

[beer monkey]

That video is still haunting me.

[PopsIcafe]

These idiots are jealous of the Americans, why????

!. More Freedom
2. Can speak their minds, good or bad
3. Good way of life, really it is.
4. excellent education, with out having to pay bribe money to get in an education establishment.
5. Freedom of religion
6. Freedom of speech
7. INNOCENT until proofen guilty.
8. free elections with out having to buy or bribe voters
and there is more.

They are just jealous of the us, including the extremist terrorists who can't be free like us. Terrorist who have to kill innocent child, women, old men and only look for blood. Killing is the only reason they kill.....they love blood and seeing people die....not for the purpose of religion at all.

Pop's

[jackspratt]

These idiots are jealous of the Americans, why????

!. More Freedom
2. Can speak their minds, good or bad
3. Good way of life, really it is.
4. excellent education, with out having to pay bribe money to get in an education establishment.
5. Freedom of religion
6. Freedom of speech
7. INNOCENT until proofen guilty.
8. free elections with out having to buy or bribe voters
and there is more.

They are just jealous of the us, including the extremist terrorists who can't be free like us. Terrorist who have to kill innocent child, women, old men and only look for blood. Killing is the only reason they kill.....they love blood and seeing people die....not for the purpose of religion at all.

Pop's

Yesterday I asked mortiboy - who are "these people"? No reply as yet

Are they the same as "these idiots" you refer to above?

Perhaps you can a bit more specific, so we (non-Americans) have a better understanding of why these people/idiots are jealous?

[BKKSTAN]

Wow Jack,did the topic of the thread elude you?''These people''_ _ _ _!

[PopsIcafe]

The "These Idiots" are IMO anyone who is anti-American. Chavez is using the anti-American attitude so he can make good friends with Cuba and Iran, especially with Iran. Iran has a leader that kept 52 hostages from an embassy captive. (it's an act of war when invading an embassy grounds, that ground is the sovereignty of the country it represents). "These Idiots" are also the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, and they are anti everything that isn't worshiping Islamic religion. These are only just a few, and some who we have help in the past, then they turn and stab, not only the Americans but the British as well, in the back. Yes, we have made mistakes, and most likely continue to....Americans are human you know.

Pop's

[jackspratt]

Wow Jack,did the topic of the thread elude you?''These people''_ _ _ _!

Sorry Stan - the thread topic is "Feelings about anti-American drivel".

Did you read it as "These people___________!"?

[jackspratt]

Thanks Pops. It is good to get a sensible response.

Given my consumption of bitterly cold Leo tonight, I will get back to you in the morning.

We may differ on some of the points you raise

[WBU ALUM]

There was further concern that if he did have WMDs that he would make them available to terrorists who would bring them to the US and use them.

No "goal post" move by me.... just zero justification for that belief....

Neither of us were in intelligence meetings. I don't claim to know more than those who do the work. I'm just telling you what was said. To me, after 9-11, that was a real threat and still is.

[Guns482]

So why did we go to war and so many have to die again?????

It is a human trait, we the most intelligent, spend millions developing weapons to dispatch our enemies quiker and quicker, in designing these weapons we must therefore have something on which to try them out, hence wars, conflicts, local uprisings and the like.
We are so intelligent that we are unable to talk or communicate in order to end these events.
That is why people die...........any excuse is better than none.

[Mr Natural]

\They are just jealous of the us, including the extremist terrorists who can't be free like us. Terrorist who have to kill innocent child, women, old men and only look for blood. Killing is the only reason they kill.....they love blood and seeing people die....not for the purpose of religion at all.

Pop's

Many of my fellow Americans believe this because on September 11, 2001 our President addressed the nation and stated:

"America was targeted for attack because we're the brightest beacon for freedom and opportunity in the world. And no one will keep that light from shining." -George W. Bush 2001

So why wouldn't we belive it? America is a great country that I am proud to be part of but jealousy is not the reason we were targeted. It is because of specific foreign polices. I do not agree with the following statements, but you should be aware of what "they" have said. You should "Know thy enemy".

Here is what Osama bin Laden has said:

"For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized " - Osama bin Laden May 1998

"Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. ... We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. " - Osama bin Laden May 1998

"The Western regimes and the government of the US bear the blame for what might happen. If their people do not wish to be harmed inside their very own countries, they should seek to elect governments that are truly representative of them and that can protect their interests."-bin Laden, May 1998.

"We swore that America wouldn't live in security until we live it truly in Palestine. This showed the reality of America, which puts Israel's interest above its own people's interest. America won't get out of this crisis until it gets out of the Arabian Peninsula, and until it stops its support of Israel." -bin Laden, Oct. 2001

Here is what the shoe bomber (Richard Reid) has said:
"The reason for me sending you (a document he calls his "will") is so you can see that I didn't do this act out of ignorance nor did I just do it because I want to die, but rather because I see it as a duty upon me to help remove the oppressive American forces from the Muslim land and that this is the only way for us to do so as we do not have other means to fight them."
The above quotes were taken from representitivepress.org

Of course we don't negotiate with terrorist, we should not listen to them, and please don't look behind the curtain Dorothy.

[WBU ALUM]

All of bin Laden's comments prior to 9-11 took place during the Clinton administration. Am I to understand that Osama was still unhappy enough with US foreign policy during Clinton's administration that he began planning the 9-11 attacks, the attack on the USS Cole, attacks on US citizens around the world and the attack on American embassies in Africa?

No, we should not negotiate with terrorists.

In one of the quotes, Osama actually attempted to influence our elections. To suggest that we should listen to him and take his advice in electing our leaders is laughable.

[ambrosius]

As always there is no really black or white answer but a lot of grey. I am a very against generalization of problems, people, race and so on.

The way I see it:
The Anti-American feelings have really started in Europe after the famous words of Bush "you are either with us or against us". Giving the Europeans and the rest of the world no option to resolve the Iraq and post 9/11 situation. There was going to be war anyway and the rest of the world just had to accept it... Also it is one of the only countries in the world beside China and Iran which does not recognize the International Tribune of the Hague for f.e. war crimes. This attitude has pissed off a lot off people. -> Most people are not angry at the American people but at the last 8 years of politics. Hopefully the next president (democrat or republican) will be more willing to listen

I read also something about the Palestinian question. Those suicide bombings are really awful. But have people who are against the Palestinians never thought what could drive people do such a terrible act? Please never forget that after world war II many Palestinians were drive off their land and out their houses where their families lived for many generations. This only because the West felt very guilty (and they should) of the holocaust and decided to give the Jewish people their promised land. Problem/guilt solved and the West felt good again. But ignoring completely the people who lived there. Now Palestine is the biggest prison in the world, a real ghetto. And you know what surprises me the most is that the Jews did not learned the most valuable lesson of WWII. That is wrong to condemn people just because of their nationality, religion or race... Either you are 1 year old baby or a 75 year old woman from Palestine you cannot go anywhere you are a confined to your prison f.e The Westbank. So how would you feel if you are a 25 year old guy born in the westbanks and and since your birth you had to stay there and things are politically not really changing? Well I personally will not feel very happy....

[WBU ALUM]

Most people are not angry at the American people but at the last 8 years of politics. Hopefully the next president (democrat or republican) will be more willing to listen

What should an American president listen to from European people?

[Guns482]

What should an American president listen to from European people?

HISTORY we have quite a lot of it you know