Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

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papaguido
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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by papaguido » May 12, 2013, 10:07 pm

LilRed wrote:Late breaking news:

"The Marines were sent to Spain in recent weeks as part of a new permanent contingency force capable of moving into North Africa very quickly after the deadly attack in Benghazi last year showed military forces were not close enough to assist."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/10/world ... ?hpt=hp_t3
I like the way CNN spins this..."were not close enough to assist"

The operation the Marines will be conducting is what we refer to as NEO ops, *Noncombatant Evacuation Operations (NEOs). The logistics of deploying Marines to conduct a NEO op are much more involved than deploying special ops or assault troops. SpecOps operators are trained and have the capability to move at a moments notice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-combat ... _Operation



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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by papaguido » May 13, 2013, 8:45 am

papaguido wrote:
LilRed wrote:Late breaking news:

"The Marines were sent to Spain in recent weeks as part of a new permanent contingency force capable of moving into North Africa very quickly after the deadly attack in Benghazi last year showed military forces were not close enough to assist."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/10/world ... ?hpt=hp_t3
I like the way CNN spins this..."were not close enough to assist"

The operation the Marines will be conducting is what we refer to as NEO ops, *Noncombatant Evacuation Operations (NEOs). The logistics of deploying Marines to conduct a NEO op are much more involved than deploying special ops or assault troops. SpecOps operators are trained and have the capability to move at a moments notice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-combat ... _Operation
and to back up my comment...
Let's also show you why CNN did not go very far in covering these hearings because the CNN deputy bureau chief, Virginia Moseley, is married to Hillary Clinton’s deputy, Tom Nides. It is time for the media to start asking questions why are they not covering this. It's a family matter for some of them.
http://specialoperationsspeaks.com/arti ... i-cover-up

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by LilRed » May 13, 2013, 10:18 am

GTC: Thanks. That's da video of the hearin? I'd really like to get the official transcript. Any clue as to where it's available? (Preferably, free - I got no interest in spending any a my money helpin Uncle unscrew somethin like this...) I am well familiar with DOS security standards. They can be REAL tough to maintain in situations like this... Sometimes, local folks make decisions to NOT comply with those standards; sometimes, with very bad consequences. Sometimes, it's higher, higher cuz they want somethin done, NOW, that cain't be done if security (and/or, other...) standards are met... When this occurs, it's generally. the folk on da ground as suffers physical consequences... I have seen fatal consequences of these decisions, twice, up close n personal.


PG: Velly interesting. There's other connections need some oversight, PARTICULARLY, in DOS. Ur point about the NEO's bein far more complex than Spec Ops, is dead on...






Curious, very curious...

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by papaguido » May 13, 2013, 11:10 am

LilRed wrote:Sometimes, local folks make decisions to NOT comply with those standards; sometimes, with very bad consequences. Sometimes, it's higher, higher cuz they want somethin done,
As a one time career Marine, I learned that responsibility falls directly on those in charge despite what their subordinates do or don't do. In other words, sh*t not only runs down hill, but up hill too.
NOW, that cain't be done if security (and/or, other...) standards are met... When this occurs, it's generally. the folk on da ground as suffers physical consequences... I have seen fatal consequences of these decisions, twice, up close n personal.
Speaking of security...
Hicks: Militia contracted by State Dept. ‘complicit’ in Benghazi attacks

“Certainly, elements of that militia were complicit in the attacks,”
Greg Hicks, former U.S. deputy chief of mission in Libya, said.
http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/12/ ... i-attacks/

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by gudtymchuk » May 13, 2013, 2:20 pm

LilRed wrote:GTC: Thanks. That's da video of the hearin? I'd really like to get the official transcript. Any clue as to where it's available?
LilRed, not sure where you can get a full blown copy of the transcript without waiting for the Congress Archives release which usually takes a month or more. Might try a nexus search. I was more interested in watching the actual hearing. It was quite amusing watching the Democrats desperately trying to provide cover for Obama and Hillary while ceremoniously, tongue in cheek, praising the whistleblowers for coming forward.
What has become a fascinating side to this is the question where was Obama? The photo from the situation room on the day the Navy Seals killed Bin laden was immediately released and was plastered on every newspaper, TV news show and all over the Internet. There they were, the entire Obama team, including Hillary, mouths a gap in awe. Fast forward to the evening of the Benghazi attack. Where was Obama? He certainly wasn't in the situation room because if he was in the situation room that would be a direct link to who might have ordered the stand downs so widely reported... No, no, can't have him in the situation room. Hillary on the other hand was being informed at 2am phone call from Greg Hicks that Terrorists were attacking the Benghazi facility. But no call to or from Obama, not a word, not even a whisper... curious,where is the Commander in Chief? Oh, that's right, aides say he was in the residence. He had to have his party sleep. He had a early wake up call in order to jet off for a campaign party in Las Vegas the next morning.

When Americans are killing Terrorists Obama is front and center pounding his chest and reveling in the praise and worship.

When Terrorists are killing Americans Obama is AWOL, MIA, hiding in the closet or under the bed......

Politicians never learn, do they?
What happens if you get scared half to death twice?

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by jackspratt » May 13, 2013, 3:47 pm

And now for a different perspective:
Robert Gates Criticizes Conservatives' "Cartoonish Impression" Of Military Support For Benghazi

Robert Gates is calling out conservatives for the "cartoonish impression of the military" they promote when baselessly criticizing the Obama administration for not sending additional support during the September attack on diplomatic facilities in Benghazi, Libya.

Right-wing media have often criticized the administration for what Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan termed their decision to "do nothing" in the face of the attack, with some suggesting that by failing to send additional troops or fighter jets to respond, President Obama had deliberately "sacrificed Americans" as a "political calculation."

But Gates, who served as Secretary of Defense during the Bush and Obama administrations, debunked these claims and explained that he would have made the same decisions, during his May 12 interview on CBS' Face the Nation.

Gates explained that he "would never have approved sending an aircraft" due to fears it would get shot down, and that he would not have approved sending Special Forces due to a lack of information about what was happening on the ground:...............

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/12 ... nis/194023
:-k

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by parrot » May 13, 2013, 4:22 pm

He was only the secdef (and a mighty good one at that)......what does he know?

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by LilRed » May 13, 2013, 5:23 pm

I liked Gates under both Bush and Obama.


I think Obama made a damn good choice: The best man for the job at the time, and, very credible.


May they all be blessed.


Lastly, you guys quit bein nasty about da Big O's lack of public presence... A man gets stressed, well, sometimes he needs some sexual healin... Michelle's a fine First Lady (as was her immediate predecessor). A pretty fair lookin woman too, doncha know... as was her IMMEDIATE predecessor.

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by gudtymchuk » May 13, 2013, 5:35 pm

If a Robert Gates commentary is the best the democrats can come up with they are in really, really deep doodoo.
When you have the noted liberal plagiarist from the New York Times Maureen Dowd questioning the Obama Administration and Hillary's Dept of State's veracity, you know the finish line is getting closer.
Quote
"Welcome to a glorious spring weekend of accusation and obfuscation as Hillaryland goes up against Foxworld.

The toxic theatrics, including Karl Rove’s first attack ad against Hillary, cloud a simple truth: The administration’s behavior before and during the attack in Benghazi, in which four Americans died, was unworthy of the greatest power on earth.

After his Libyan intervention, President Obama knew he was sending diplomats and their protectors into a country that was no longer a country, a land rife with fighters affiliated with Al Qaeda.

Yet in this hottest of hot spots, the State Department’s minimum security requirements were not met, requests for more security were rejected, and contingency plans were not drawn up, despite the portentous date of 9/11 and cascading warnings from the C.I.A., which had more personnel in Benghazi than State did and vetted the feckless Libyan Praetorian Guard. When the Pentagon called an elite Special Forces team three hours into the attack, it was training in Croatia — decidedly not a hot spot.

Hillary Clinton and Ambassador Chris Stevens were rushing to make the flimsy Benghazi post permanent as a sign of good faith with Libyans, even as it sat ringed by enemies.

The hierarchies at State and Defense had a plodding response, failing to make any superhuman effort as the siege waxed and waned over eight hours.

In an emotional Senate hearing on Wednesday, Stevens’s second-in-command, Gregory Hicks, who was frantically trying to help from 600 miles away in Tripoli, described how his pleas were denied by military brass, who said they could not scramble planes and who gave a “stand-down” order to four Special Forces officers in Tripoli who were eager to race to Benghazi.

“My reaction was that, O.K., we’re on our own,” Hicks said quietly. He said the commander of that Special Forces team told him, “This is the first time in my career that a diplomat has more” chutzpah “than someone in the military.”

The defense secretary at the time, Leon Panetta, insisted, “We quickly responded.” But they responded that they would not respond. As Emma Roller and David Weigel wrote in Slate: “The die was cast long before the attack, by the weak security at the consulate, and commanders may have decided to cut their losses rather than risking more casualties. And that isn’t a story anyone prefers to tell.”

And then Dowd finishes with:
"All the factions wove their own mythologies at the expense of our deepest national mythology: that if there is anything, no matter how unlikely or difficult, that we can do to try to save the lives of Americans who have volunteered for dangerous assignments, we must do it."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/opini ... .html?_r=0
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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by jackspratt » May 13, 2013, 6:24 pm

It is re-assuring to know that Maureen Dowd has more credibility, on the issue of military responses, than a former Secretary of Defence under both a Republican and Democrat administration. :D

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by LilRed » May 13, 2013, 8:31 pm

I reckon Gates was a fine SecDef under two Presidents from two different parties.


Good on Obama for recognizing Gates' value, from the gitgo.

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by S00161 » May 13, 2013, 11:11 pm

Thinking that Gates would give an honest appraisal is naive at best and just stupid at worst.

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by jackspratt » May 14, 2013, 8:02 pm

S00161 wrote:Thinking that Gates would give an honest appraisal is naive at best and just stupid at worst.
2 Presidents seem to have missed that when they appointed him. But I now understand that an anonymous poster on UM knows better. :D

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by gudtymchuk » May 14, 2013, 9:29 pm

One thing for certain, no matter how many Robert Gates the left parades out or how loud they cry right wing conspiracy witch hunt for the Benghazi coverup, adding the IRS abuse of power and now the Eric Holder Justice Department abuse regarding the Associated Press and dragging this out rather than allowing all the facts to come to light, Obama is in way over his head. At this point, it's dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't. Also obvious nothing good can be foreseen for the 2014 or 2016 elections for the liberals who, by default, will share the burden. Nor will any of this help to canonize the Obama legacy. Already a couple of his 2nd term agenda items have been derailed with the help of members of his own party. Now one third of Congressional committees are looking at Obama administration scandals. Regardless of how deep into the Obama Administration any of these scandals go the fact is it's all happening on his watch. No amount of arrogance is going keep the dogs at bay. His re-election gloat has new become a scandal ridden squirm making him a lame duck on steroids.

Although not having any scientific data as evidence I believe most Americans probably do not appreciate Chicago style political thuggery from elected servants. Time will tell. The pollsters are gonna be busy.
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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by LilRed » May 15, 2013, 10:30 am

GTC: Damn straight about the IRS and JD.

And, yes, Obama's where the buck stops.

Let's get on with investigatin and doin the necessary. I believe his 2nd term agenda was initially focused on gettin us outta Afghanistan; the economy, and, Obamacare. I suggest that he's doin da first; the DOW is at its all time high; and, the 3rd, is done. So, far, my friends and I have found Obamacare to be good, admittedly, we're all CS, FS, or retired therefrom... The OBC provision to cover children to an older age is very helpful...

I found ur "Chicago style political thuggery..." comment missin a possible insight... His political oragnizin in CHICAGO, was where he made his first real political bones. These bones allowed him to win a State Congressional seat, and, on... His pol opponents were the long entrenched Daly machine, and, a black mayor, elected by an "establishment" black organization with a strong black agenda... I suspect Obama knows "Chicago style political thuggery" real well... He had great success dealin with it...

Is there any doubt that this was one of his first BIG successes? It is what you say it is, my friend... Is it any different than the tactics n such used by our real conservative citizens? Jr. Bush, et. al.? (I do/did like Jr. B...)


ATB

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by gudtymchuk » May 15, 2013, 2:16 pm

LilRed wrote: Is there any doubt that this was one of his first BIG successes? It is what you say it is, my friend... Is it any different than the tactics n such used by our real conservative citizens? Jr. Bush, et. al.? (I do/did like Jr. B...)


ATB
Big difference Red, Bush is not the one sitting in the Oval Office. No doubt Bush left with a big cloud over his Presidency. At this point 1/3 of House and Senate Committees are investigating the Obama shenanigans. Don't remember such in the Bush years..... The old Bush bad, Obama good rhetoric is yesterday's news. Bush is sitting in his Texas mansion probably enjoying watching the screws tighten on the Poster Boy for Liberal politics..tho he would never admit it.
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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by LilRed » May 15, 2013, 7:08 pm

I surely hope President Bush is... He's earned it fairly.

Pres Bush has been silent cuz he truly is a southerner, n Barbara'd whap him if he displayed bad manners...


ATB

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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by jackspratt » May 15, 2013, 7:52 pm

LilRed wrote:I surely hope President Bush is... He's earned it fairly.
Is this the same President Bush who:

- invaded Iraq based on a lie (principally of his own construction), at huge human cost
- earned the well deserved opprobrium of the world, thereby diminishing the moral leadership of the US, by OK'ing, and therefore encouraging, torture
- trampled on the rights of US citizens with warrantless domestic electronic eavesdropping
- presided over the root causes of the GFC
- etc etc etc?
:shock:

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Post by gudtymchuk » May 15, 2013, 9:09 pm

One of President Barack Obama's re-election campaign co-chairmen used a leaked document from the IRS to attack GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney during the 2012 election, according to the National Organization for Marriage (NOM).

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... -documents
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Obama: Dead in the Water...is it true?

Post by LilRed » May 16, 2013, 8:26 am

JS:


Yes, but, you knew that... It's part of what I see: Our "political system"... tolerates (?), encourages (?), allows (?) this stuff from all sides...

I like a good, clean standup "fight", where one can try and decide on the merits of the candidate, not on some spin doctored PUBS...

Silly me, huh?!?


ATB

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