Thaksin says he will come back and fight

[aznyron]

let me say this I told my mother a while back I said Mom vote your pocket book. vote for the party that gives you the most. don't listen to your sister she is rock hard Republican who has lots of money you don't.
remember who gave you social security and who gave you medicare. it was not the Republican party.
so this holds true for Thaksin he gave the poor Isaan farmers a big boost when he introduced the 30 baht health care program. so no matter what you think or say about him he at least did some thing for the poor. Now is he corrupt IMO yes did he kill many people with his anti drug laws IMO yes. Now on the flip side how many people did he save from his free medical plan ? just some thing to brew over.
as for me I could care less who is the P.M or what party is in power. or what they do to each other.
over political B/S. in the end they will screw every one that what politicians do best

[stogie bear]

It is never to late to become mindful and aware. Why not read something about some other political friends who started the PAD like Sondhi Limthongkul, Chamlong Srimuang, pipob thong chai or independent advisors like prem tinsulanonda. Are they any better than Thaksin. Are their motives different. Are they true democrats.
Or look at some candidates Mark put in his cabinet. A lady who manages the poseidon massage parlor, an insane nurse, a former school buddy and indeed a skill full foreign minister . A man who asked the US to lower sanctions against the burmese junta and who supported Thaksin in the past. Like so many other PAD heroes did. Are they any better

Not that I see thaksin as a saint. His biggest problem was and is over imposting himself. That made certain authorities in thai society very nervous. Also like many other politicians given the opportunity he screw others. But so did Nixon, the Kennedy s, Clinton, Bush , Roosevelt etc. But at least the uneducated Issan people got more out of it than with other governments. Sondhi s motives are the same as thaksin s. Read about his financial problems and you will see.

One difference is Thaksin was elected by a majority, Mr Mark not. Even Nixon or Bush were elected by a majority. Mr Mark s rise was pushed by a force that acted like SA stormtroopers. First creating chaos, having the majority of army and police on their hand. Yes they were neutral like pilatus. And then the so called silent majority of decent educated traditional people asked for order. BS in my opinion. Looking at some of Marks Cabinet proposals about loans to buy a car or land reforms doesn t look very bright for the average thai. Not to speak of the uneducated.
They will have to pay the price again.

Last week Mark went to Davos to beg for money , this week he is asking the Japanese. So far no european country is reluctant to give any money. In Europe newspapers saw him as a pretty errand boy send to collect money for his vague economic plans. Nobody here is that foolish. Most of the leaders wait and see. I think the Japanese will do the same. What else than a pretty face did he offer so far. Not much.

What a life of opportunities and in fact a waste of education reading Marks life so far and looking what he achieved. Thai newspapers compared Mark to a new American politician. What a joke. The same mistake Time magazine made when a famous german politician was voted man of the year in 1939. That man is probably a true inspiration to Sondhi and his gang.
At least on the other side of the ocean people got rid off of a W. For the first time they did not look at color or background when they voted . I hope for you and Mark an example in a little more compassion and understanding.

To brand ALL residents of this region as uneducated peasants is a disgrace. Yes many earn their living from the land. Does that make them stupid? Of course not. It just means their life skills are different to ours or yours.It might possibly be you have gained this impression as , by your own admission, you don't socialise very much with the Thais. I do, and I can tell you first hand. I have met more really ting-tong farangs than ever I have thai people, as well as, some highly educated, rich, successful ones. Maybe its those latter attributes that cloud your judgment Stan.

Is this going to be the argument?That I said ALL the residents are undereducated peasants?

Please point out to me where I said this and I will correct it!Because as we all know ALL would be to inclusive!

My point about undereducated had to do with the school system in place and the obvious ignorance of the majority of the students!Something that I have experienced through many different schools my daughter and others have attended.

As far as my admissions to not socializing with Thais very often,I do socialize more with Thais than falangs,I just keep it superficial unless they want something different,then I set boundaries for and let them know my expectations.My experience is that it has made my life very much more comforting and real!As a matter of fact,I get along very well with Thais in general and I am a good neighbor and supporter of my local businesses and people!

I take you word that you have many Thai friends and also that you choose a different approach to your relationships with Thais.I can only say that I have only seen you socializing with falangs in public!Some might even fit your ''ting tong'' description

I might add the my socialization patterns are consisted with falangs as they are with Thais.At least I can talk about something analytical occassionally.And I admit to being more comfortable around other Americans as I am familiar with attitudes and humour.This is related to my IGNORANCE of other falang Nationalities cultural nuances!

[westerby]

Not that I see thaksin as a saint. His biggest problem was and is over (imposing) himself. That made certain authorities in thai society very nervous. Also like many other politicians given the opportunity he screw others.

Yes, agreed. He got too big for the Establishment to control which either made them nervous or put their noses out of joint. I'd argue that Mr. T probably encroached on the social programmes traditionally handled by the others in prominent positions resulting in the perception that he was a threat to the very heart of the Establishment.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Khun Stogie Bear, I would not put Prem in the same category as Sondhi and Chamlong. As far as these things go, Prem is a 'clean' politican and showed himself to be a very good leader of the country. He is intelligent, debonair, dashing and able to get to the point in political debates very quickly.

He sure did oppose Thaksin and his moves to curb army power, which is what one would expect from a military man. Never underestimate Prem. To have a good idea which way Thai politics is headed listen to this man.

[FrazeeDK]

T-Rat.. bingo!!! "Watch Prem to see where things go in thai politics."" Preeeecisely!! For an 86 year old retired Army General he sure has a lot of pull in Thai politics, far more than we probably realize........

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Khun Westerby see that article from The Nation that I put on here somewhere (page 2, 3rd post from the top) which suggests that the 2006 coup took place when Thaksin tried to curb the power and role of the military in Thai politics by reducing their budget and replacing some high-ranking military elites with his own nominees.

Soon thereafter Prem was giving out short statements that Thaksin must watch his step, and be very careful about the policies he introduced vis-a-vis the military.

Thaksin displayed a bad attitude and talked back. Then he was gone.

Yes, Curly Howard a.k.a. FrazeeDK, Prem has a great deal of influence and power, which is derived from his position as Head of the Privy Council.

[jepp]

Why is it that poor countries tend to be run by corrupt governments? For example the Philippines is rich in natural resources and i believe that it could have been a wealthy country. Inadequate infrastructure, lack of financing, and government policies have limited productivity. Not to mention corruption (don't mention it!!) But look the poverty and standard of living there and the previous leaders that milked it !!! Ditto for Indonesia.
Some Companies where Executive pays were obscene have gone bust or quickly backwards.
Chicken or the egg?
I think that the Chicken is treading on the eggs so it can get all of the wheat.

[BKKSTAN]

It is my belief that most people are basicly selfish and selfserving,power begats more power,wealth begats more wealth,people are more concerned about how others see them than they are about others.

When people are basically ignorant about the workings of gov't and National politics,combined with superstition and mythilogical beliefs,they are more easily led by those in power that perceive the peoples ignorance of what is actually going on!

If one is raised in a servitude mindset that believes in/or accepts the inequality of people by wealth class,ethnic origin,skin color and ''tribal region'',it seems a natural progression of circumstances.

If one is poor and busy scratching out an existance,one is probably to distant from the workings of the power center and look to local leaders to guide them.If it is impolite to ask questions or challenge credentials and one is illiterate,they are easily led by passionate orators they may mislead them with lies and halftruths.

Every country took time to develop and ,even after developing,they are not completely free of corruption!

What is needed is time,a good education system,coupled with sound enforceable laws,respect for law and order,police and armys dedicated to the principle of service and protection of the citizens,the right to freedom of speech and information and institutions of power that provide the proper checks and balances that insure transparency within the gov't structure to prevent anyone person from gaining absolute power!

It is fortunate in deed when a country gets a benevolent leader initially that never loses his sense of duty and obligation to his country and its people!

Isolation from an advancing materialistic world with its new and growing glitter at some point will allow an overwheming desire and a demand amongst people not prepared financially and could institute growth in fraud and corruption to attain their desires!

[rufus]

Do you seriously believe that the "grannys" and the others in Bangkok who took part in PAD's terrorist actions knew why they were there? Do you think they have any idea of the workins of Thai government? 90% of the falang pposters here on this forum are better informed. Don't kid yourself. I am sure you saw the interviews. The only bleat the sheep could produce was to rage against Thaksin. They were there for their 500 daily Baht.

[Galee]

Do you seriously believe that the "grannys" and the others in Bangkok who took part in PAD's terrorist actions knew why they were there? Do you think they have any idea of the workins of Thai government? 90% of the falang pposters here on this forum are better informed. Don't kid yourself. I am sure you saw the interviews. The only bleat the sheep could produce was to rage against Thaksin. They were there for their 500 daily Baht.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[laphanphon]

Why is it that poor countries tend to be run by corrupt governments?

corrupt gov'ts can only rule ignorant sheep, any wonder why the public school system sucks.

the dumber the sheep, the easier to coral

Every country took time to develop and ,even after developing,they are not completely free of corruption!

i think a couple centuries is long enough. got it fairly right with the 97 constitution, though took one hell of a step backwards in sept 2006. now back to where they were before the revolution.

[BKKSTAN]

Do you seriously believe that the "grannys" and the others in Bangkok who took part in PAD's terrorist actions knew why they were there? Do you think they have any idea of the workins of Thai government? 90% of the falang pposters here on this forum are better informed. Don't kid yourself. I am sure you saw the interviews. The only bleat the sheep could produce was to rage against Thaksin. They were there for their 500 daily Baht.

You might be right,but I never heard about the 500B a day amongst PAD!

I assume you are going to provide a resource for that information.Of course if it is only an opinion,so be it.

My opinion is that there are more literate amongst the Pad demonstrators than the UDD demonstators.I did read somewhere about UDD supporters receiving daily pay,can't remember where though!

I did see videos of UDD attacking PAD demonstaors with weapons and heard about hand grenades incidents!I never did see anything like that about PAD,except some carrying of weapons as defensive measures after many attacks by UDD!
There is no doubt in my mind that many people on both sides are being manipulated by competing power elites in competition for power!
Nor do I deny the possibility that the army initiated the action against Thaksin since no other organization had the power to remove him!I just have a hard time denying the many corruptive and contentious practices of Thaksin as you seem to do!

Since the army took Thaksin out for possibly many reasons,it would seem normal that they didn't suppress PAD as they kept Thaksins surrogates from running his agenda.

In my opinion ,the army should be given credit for not taking action militarily against the surrogates which would possibly been more costly in lives and money!Plus at some point the army would have to give the gov't back to civilians or establish a military dictatorship that would lose many Western alliances ,again raising the financial costs to the Nation!

[jackspratt]

I did see videos of UDD attacking PAD demonstaors with weapons and heard about hand grenades incidents!I [b]never did see anything like that about PAD,[/b]except some carrying of weapons as defensive measures after many attacks by UDD!

Try this one Stan:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QbnFPhExOTw&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QbnFPhExOTw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

Then this one:

<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4WQlhGOPSmg&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4WQlhGOPSmg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>[/youtube]

I don't see much evidence of "make love, not war", "hari krishna, hari krishna, hari rama, hari rama" amongst this lot.

[cali4995]

Red, Yellow, Purple, I don't even care anymore. They really need to put the country 1st and focus
on some stability for awhile. The biggest threat to Thailand seems to be coming from it's own
citizens. Everyone's stressed, unhappy, overly serious and this mob mentality is completely insane.
The only group they quite possibly might hate on more than each other would have to be the farangs.

[stogie bear]

Exactly. I saw one manifestation outside Udon in august by yellow shirts. The same tactics Adolf used in the 20 s and 30 s. In the audience were hired hand clappers who started applauding during speeching. Most speeches were utter rubbish. Only hate messages against Mr T and Samak. I would say a thai version of triumph of the will.
The whole atmosphere was bad. I had the impression that many people were not aware in what game these local leaders were pulling them in.
I hope for them that this new government will not succeed in their new land ownership policy proposal .Letting them pay tax because they do not take care of their own ground according to government regulations. This government knows most Issan farmers cannot pay tax and will have to sell the last piece they own. If this proposal goes through who would benefit from that.

About Prem>
Yes nobody should under estimate this figure. He is one of the puppet masters in thai politics. Thaksin clearly made his biggest mistake there. Not taking this person serious and anger him started the downfall of Thaksin.

Do you seriously believe that the "grannys" and the others in Bangkok who took part in PAD's terrorist actions knew why they were there? Do you think they have any idea of the workins of Thai government? 90% of the falang pposters here on this forum are better informed. Don't kid yourself. I am sure you saw the interviews. The only bleat the sheep could produce was to rage against Thaksin. They were there for their 500 daily Baht.

[stogie bear]

PAD did the dirty job for the army. All they had to do was stay out. Like the SA did the dirty job for Hitler in the 30 s finishing off political opponents.Always pointing out it were the communists or socialists that created the disorder and chaos. When they became too big he got rid off them by using the SS and keeping the army in reserve. After that he got support from 90% of the army. Many of these guys owned land and wealth in that era.
Oh yes Hitler brought order, education and a lot more. But what a price. Wallstreet and Mr Prescott helped him. Even Warburg banking believed in that new promising leader.
So please don t come with an army that bring order. Yes they can but after that most fail in achieving stability afterwards. Name one general in history that raised above. Maybe Napoleon for a short time or McArthur in japan. Most others failed in politics. If you not believe read for example about Grant, Eisenhower, Hindenburg, Wellington, Patton, Petain, Franco, Tojo. Why because most were not trained to do that. In the thai army you see the same. Many are incompetent fools living in an era long gone.

I agree that any country needs a fair law system and stability. To achieve that you need a basic order that any citizen should respect. Good education, a democratic government ,freedom of speech , a right to vote, independant newspapers and media are essential. Creating jobs for all is another factor. Poverty drives people into radicalism, not religion. It doesn t matter if many people are greedy or selfish. A good leader is aware of that and knows how to handle with this without going into extremes. Lincoln and Roosevelt were masters in doing that.

The problem I have with Mark is that he was never able before to win earlier elections.Many times he had to run because all he got were rotten tomatoes. PAD opened the backdoor coming with a cheap story that the country was going down and they needed a strong leader.That can never be a basic to rule. Even hitler learned that after his failed Putsch in Munich in 1923. Mark is not a strong , convincing person.Born with a silver spoon, spending a lot of his childhood outside thailand. That way you never learn to see the problems of all thai people. Thai people are not only the middle class or elite worried so much about losing their status or wealth. The other factor of uneducated is there too. Thaksin at least was very skill full to speak to them , Mark is not. I don t think he gives a ---- about the poor side of town. Lately I read in one thai magazine he night become the new Robert Kennedy. What an insult. At least Robert Kennedy had the guts to run a campaign Mark would never dare. That man stepped over his shadow daring to take risks many would never do. Yes he paid the price and after the US got tricky Dick. I am afraid Mark is a thai version of Dan Quale. Imagine Dan Quale would have become president of the US in the Reagan era.

I am afraid Thailand is pushing itself right now out of the market. The japanese promise a lot but unless you get a paper with handwriting it doesn t mean anything. Look how many resorts, hotels are in trouble. Why, because of the order brought by the PAD. No it was the banking crisis and tourists who enjoyed the airport party in december. A foreign minister who called that party fun is not skilled. He reminds me more of a Von Ribbentrop who wrote a letter to Churchill when the British arrested him in 45 calling him Vincent Churchill. Dumb and ignorant not understanding the outside world.

You might be right,but I never heard about the 500B a day amongst PAD!

I assume you are going to provide a resource for that information.Of course if it is only an opinion,so be it.

My opinion is that there are more literate amongst the Pad demonstrators than the UDD demonstators.I did read somewhere about UDD supporters receiving daily pay,can't remember where though!

I did see videos of UDD attacking PAD demonstaors with weapons and heard about hand grenades incidents!I never did see anything like that about PAD,except some carrying of weapons as defensive measures after many attacks by UDD!
There is no doubt in my mind that many people on both sides are being manipulated by competing power elites in competition for power!
Nor do I deny the possibility that the army initiated the action against Thaksin since no other organization had the power to remove him!I just have a hard time denying the many corruptive and contentious practices of Thaksin as you seem to do!

Since the army took Thaksin out for possibly many reasons,it would seem normal that they didn't suppress PAD as they kept Thaksins surrogates from running his agenda.

In my opinion ,the army should be given credit for not taking action militarily against the surrogates which would possibly been more costly in lives and money!Plus at some point the army would have to give the gov't back to civilians or establish a military dictatorship that would lose many Western alliances ,again raising the financial costs to the Nation![/quote]

[FrazeeDK]

On to the title of the topic!!! Wouldn't it be great to have Taksin return and meet with his PAD nemesis Sondhi in a celebrity death match at Lumpini Boxing stadium in Bangkok.. It would be priceless!!

[jackspratt]

On to the title of the topic!!! Wouldn't it be great to have Taksin return and meet with his PAD nemesis Sondhi in a celebrity death match at Lumpini Boxing stadium in Bangkok.. It would be priceless!!

Even more so if they both died

[beer monkey]

Mmmm but what would the chances be....as landing a deathly punch at exactly the same same time as one another would have to be ultra slim, so i guess that really would be priceless so i would agree also.

[jackspratt]

I did see videos of UDD attacking PAD demonstaors with weapons and heard about hand grenades incidents!I [b]never did see anything like that about PAD,[/b]except some carrying of weapons as defensive measures after many attacks by UDD!

Try this one Stan:

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Then this one:

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I don't see much evidence of "make love, not war", "hari krishna, hari krishna, hari rama, hari rama" amongst this lot.

Stan?