Deaths in Bangkok

[bumper]

Engrained in society to long I don't think that will happen in this generation. It will require reform from the top working to the bottom not likely.

Aunt who lives in Bangkok says there a ton of are blocks making a commute to work very difficult.

[jackspratt]

It is hard to dispute the assertion that so long as the police and army in Thailand remain answerable only to themselves, the country is doomed to remain a tin pot democracy.

[parrot]

"and here's "Seh Daeng" MG Khattiya still out and about.. How could an "inactive" yet serving general be allowed by the military to engage in these activities."

Inquiring minds want to know! Just trying to picture such a person in the US military hurts my brain.

[bumper]

He must know what's in the closets, to get away with what he has done.

[bumper]

ok I only found this one place so use your own judgment it sounds like hear say to me. But that being said very reflective of what we have seen on he streets. I would say the other side is having hard time saying on track with it's leaders as well..It looks like both sides are slowing wearing down. Maybe this will find a peaceful solution yet, that is if only one acts in frustration.

As far a the rule of law in concerned just ain't happening folks.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/securit ... ion-claims

[Khun Paul]

"It is hard to dispute the assertion that so long as the police and army in Thailand remain answerable only to themselves, the country is doomed to remain a tin pot democracy ". a quote from jackspratt.
WHICH I might add I heartily agree with, I have encountered dictatorships in my time, but here, no matter when you served you seem to retain rank and position, that smacks of a military/police govt in disguise, therefore brings to the question. WHO really governs the Politicians or the Military/Police ?

IT's obvious to an outsider that more credibility is given to serving or retired officers of either persuasion than should be, even though corruption and nepotism rule their status. UNTIL the general public learn that both groups are inherently corrupt and that they are using their positions to get status and wealth and how they do it is illegal , then this country will not rise above the TIN POT DEMOCRACY aforementioned.

It is so sad that a country renowned for tolerance and happiness is mired in a conflict not for the benifit of the average Thai. But as with many countries of all hues the vast majority say nothing and do nothing except hope, should they decide to mobilise then things would change and for the better one hopes.

[trubrit]

It is so sad that a country renowned for tolerance and happiness is mired in a conflict not for the benifit of the average Thai. But as with many countries of all hues the vast majority say nothing and do nothing except hope, should they decide to mobilise then things would change and for the better one hopes.

Silly me . I thought that's what they are doing .

[FrazeeDK]

hand me the salt shaker please!! On the Governments claims....

Note the barrage of stories in the last two days of the purported "RPG" attack on the Temple of the Emerald Buddha... The RPG attack occurred on 20 March... We're seeing confessions from various Police Lieutenant Colonels that they were instructed to attack a "national monument" to sow discord. It would appear the latest government claims fit neatly into government talking points accusing the Reds of being "Terrorist" among other canards. I didn't recall seeing any rumblings about it back in March , so did some Googling, looking for articles around the time it happened:

this is basically all I could find back then. Note Google Maps shows the purported launching point of the RPG from Soi Prengputhorn (or as called in Google Map Phraeng Puthon)to be in excess of 500 meters from Wat Phra Kaew with the MOD a 4-5 story building between them. Yes, I suppose you could attempt to arc an RPG over a large building but normally it's a direct fire weapon:

BKK Post ref to March 20th RPG attack on MOD:
Published: 22/03/2010 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News
Police are conducting DNA tests on bloodstains found in a pickup truck following Saturday's bomb attacks at the Defence Ministry and the National Anti-Corruption Commission. Panitan Wattanayagorn, deputy secretary-general to the prime minister, said yesterday officers would speed up DNA testing of the bloodstains. They believe they belong to a man who suffered injuries while firing a grenade at the Defence Ministry on Saturday. A Toyota Hilux Vigo pickup truck carrying a fake licence plate was found near the scene after the blast. An RPG launcher, three M67 grenades, a pistol and 20 rounds of ammunition were found inside the vehicle.

Today's editorial: Track down those behind the explosions
The ministry was one of two public agencies attacked by bombs on Saturday night, after tens of thousands of anti-government red shirt demonstrators joined a mobile rally in the capital. Another bomb went off at the NACC office under construction in Nonthaburi, leaving a 30cm-deep hole and damaging the wall of the building. There were no reports of injuries. Acting national police chief Pateep Tanprasert said footage from a closed-circuit camera showed two men were involved in the bomb attack at the Defence Ministry. The grenade was fired from Soi Prengputhorn in Phra Nakhon district, said Pol Gen Pateep. The grenade was aimed at a government office. NACC chairman Panthep Klanarongran has told all commissioners to take extra security precautions. Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the peace-keeping operations centre met yesterday to discuss the mobile rally staged by the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Saturday as well as the bomb blasts. Officials at the meeting agreed those responsible for the bomb attacks wanted to create unrest, according to Col Sansern, a spokesman for the peace-keeping operation centre. He said the centre determined that the red shirt leaders might not be able to fully control the activities of all its demonstrators. It was possible the blasts might be linked to the UDD, he said.
The peace-keeping operations centre increased the number of security checkpoints in the capital from 50 to 141 during the red shirt's mobile rally. He said the bomb attacks were not evidence of authorities' failure to maintain law and order. It was difficult to prevent those with ill intent from carrying out attacks. Officials initially estimated 30,000 red shirts would join the mobile rally, but police estimate the crowd at 65,000 people.
The New Politics Party condemned the bomb attacks and said they were aimed at overthrowing the government.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... last-scene

Thai media March 24th Ref to RPG attack on MOD has a more detailed synopsis of the incident:
An RPG-7-type weapon was apparently used on 20 March in what looks like a plan to attack the Ministry of Defence headquarters in Bangkok. According to reports, the attacker(s) likely failed when the grenade hit overhead wires. The round ended up hitting a store in a community behind the ministry building, injuring a street sweeper. Authorities are reported to have found a pickup truck belonging to the attackers. In the pickup truck were found an M3 submachine gun, a quantity of bullets, some M67 hand grenades, an RPG and a box of condoms
http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=713

Oh and to show a little balance here.. Note that the Reds Shirts are claiming the Silom M-79 attacks originated from Chulalongkorn Hospital grounds.. The government claims they originated from Red controlled territoy in Lumpini Park.. A simple look at Google maps (both map and Sat ) shows that the grenades impacts were in line down Silom. The canyon of Silom Road looks directly into Lumpini Park. There would be no possible way for the attacks to have taken place from Chula Hospital grounds as there are numerous tall buildings obstructing any type of indirect fire attack (arcing trajectories) from the Chula area.. Of course not having access to forensics from the site where the grenades hit means that they possibly could have come from yet further down Silom rather than Lumpini Park...

Again, pass the salt please.. With a little simple Internet analysis many "tallking points" and accusations from either side can quickly be deconstructed..

[bumper]

"Silly me . I thought that's what they are doing "

I believe that is what they think they are doing, Time will tell if they win, if they don't we may never know.

It is possible they have great intentions and are being mislead, there is so much misinformation it is difficult to tell what is really happening here.

It's like paying the money, got video and then people saying are not being paid, in fact it could be both

[bumper]

You decide

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 28408.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100502/ts_nm/us_thailand

[mally]

I'm down in Pattaya at the moment and have been talking to some Thai people in the bars (not dipstick bar girls, but older people). They have been taking part in the BKK demo's and were keen to tell of their experiences.
The outstanding thing was their devotion to the cause, "Not for Thatskin, for Democrassy", their words not mine, and there was a deep rooted hatred for the treatment handed out by the police/army. One woman proudly said "After we've won, however many years it takes, I can tell my children I was there in Bangkok"
This aint gonna go away soon methinks.

[bumper]

Thanks for a different view, from that area. One can only hope the country does not end completely split. That it stops short of Civil war. Time will tell disunity within the Government and apparently signs of that within the leaders of the protest as well/ Basically not functioning government as to the protest at this juncture I believe.

[Khun Paul]

When one tal;ks of the silent majority TRUBRIT, one is talking about THE 63 million other people in Thailand who really do not or never had been involved. They may well supplant the Reds with a cash donation or help with food but in fact at any one time no more than possibly 50,000 people have demonstrated at any one time.
Should 2-3 hundred thousand people who are fed up decide to denobstrate then that copuld be interesting however as with so many demonstrations it is the few that cause probs or highlight percieved injustices for the rest.

Coupled witht he obvious fact that many of these reds are being PAID to demonstrate , one does really wonder at their agenda.Of course many will say democracy not Thaskin..he is now considered to be a lead weight not worth bothering about but he is still pulling somw strings I am sure.
Thais really do not understand Democracy they are emerging from a semi-feudal state and ever since WW!! they have tried to find what it is really about.
It is sad that His Majesty is not at all well, it is now they need a strong Soveriegn , to curtail the excesses on both sides and to cool the rhetoric.

[nkstan]

I'm down in Pattaya at the moment and have been talking to some Thai people in the bars (not dipstick bar girls, but older people). They have been taking part in the BKK demo's and were keen to tell of their experiences.
The outstanding thing was their devotion to the cause, "Not for Thatskin, for Democrassy", their words not mine, and there was a deep rooted hatred for the treatment handed out by the police/army. One woman proudly said "After we've won, however many years it takes, I can tell my children I was there in Bangkok"
This aint gonna go away soon methinks.

I would bet my jammies that those people couldn't specifically tell you want they meant when saying ''for democracy''!Anything other than their programmed response of majority votes should decide the gov't,irregardless whether they are fraudelent and not considering the fact that the Parliment system,means a majority of seated MPs decides the PM!

Thaksins return might not be in the forefront of te majority of the protesters,but he is still involved in hopes of overthrowing the present gov't and the Judicuary in order to overthrow his convictions!

[FrazeeDK]

let's see.. The Reds have now been full esconced in the Rajaprasong area since before the 10 April riots. The government has done nothing to evict them and the PM and DPM's labeling of them as "terrorists" and threats to "use all force necessary" remind me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail when the knight had his arms and legs chopped off and was still threatening the Pythonites. "come back, I can still beat you!!! I'll bite your leg off!!". Everytime the government says "boo", the Reds do something more to poke the government in the eye.. While I'll agree the Reds haven't made any friends with the business folks in the area, they certainly have made the government and security forces look like a pack of incompetents.

-The cops don't seem to want to do anything.

-The military commander doesn't want bloodshed.

-The "Shirts of many colors" although claiming "many thousands" in their demonstrations are in reality getting only a couple of thousand for each one. They've started cancelling rallies.. And rumor has it that they were getting paid too, and by the government no less!!-

The Yellow Shirts may decide to march, but that remains to be seen.. General Chamlong may find that his Yellow Shirt middle class housewives and their attendant "dark forces" are no match for the Red Shirts and their "dark forces."

- The government continues to spout the same talking points: "We're going to clear Rajaprasong", "The Reds are terrorists", "There's an anti-monarchist plot".. Again, and again, and again without outlining clear facts to prove their points.. Some of the allegations are beyond belief and as I pointed out in an earlier posting, don't take much Googling to disprove (on those from the Reds too!)

As of today, it appears that the bulk of the Rajaprasong participants seem to be Bangkok Thai.. They've come in their hundreds to park their cars on Ploenchit/LangSuan/Chidlom and walk or take motorcycle taxis (standing by in their dozens on a Sunday!!) into the Rajaprasong central zone.. Yes, there are thousands of Issan there too, but it's a full mix of Bangkokians and them... Oh, and as far as I can see the government's claim that they've "blockaded the area" is utter hogwash..

I think that there are far more folks out there supporting the Reds than against them.. The media trots out the requisite tear jerker (Chula hospital evac) or pissed of vendor, but I really haven't heard too many Thais pissed off at the Reds.. Yeah, they are tired of it all, perhaps more bored than tired, but actively against it, nah....

My take... there's so many people in power teetering on the fence and waiting to see which way the wind blows that everything is just stuck in "wait and see mode." You can bet there's many formal and informal meetings of all power-mongers attempting to figure things out...

What'll happen?? Ya got me!!

[jackspratt]

A couple of questions FDK:

- how many red shirts do you estimate are now occupying the Rajaprasong area?

- how do you define "out there" - as in people supporting the red shirts?

[bumper]

You just got to love this when all else fails send them a SMS that should do the trick **

Government to send SMS to protesters

* Published: 2/05/2010 at 07:57 PM
* Online news: Breakingnews

The government will urge people not to take part in the anti-government rally at Bangkok’s Ratchaprasong business district by sending them SMS text messages, acting government spokesman Panitan Wattanayagorn said after an emergency cabinet meeting on Sunday.

"Sending SMS text messages would be a direct communication channel to the protesters, as the government's previous plan of distributing leaflets to them was very difficult and did not work out well," Mr Panitan said.

The protesters will be asked to express their political views by other means and they will be encouraged to return home, he said.

The government has coordinated with mobile phone business operators, and the protesters should receive some of the messages on Monday.

"The government's legal team has resolved that sending SMS text messages to the protesters can be done during an emergency situation as people need to be informed about the situation.

"We want the situation in the country restored soon and there are ways to help ensure minimum damage and loss," Mr Panitan said.

He said different ministries will prepare their own funds, personnel and mechanisms to implement the plan of resolving political problems immediately, he said.
About the author

columnist
Writer: Online Reporters

[FrazeeDK]

JS, today, in excess of 15,000 perhaps more.. How do I define "out there".. Well from Thai acquaintances and the wives chatting.. At work, a Sino-Thai lady supervisor, an avowed Yellow Shirt, agreed that everything is up in the air.. No one knows what's going to happen.. She's not pissed at the Reds, just shaking her head at how all the power folks have allowed this to happen; politically, economically, socially.. She's educated, nobody's fool, and can see as clearly as I can when the government spews propaganda.. She doesn't like it..

[FrazeeDK]

on the SMS issue.. IF, the government has copied the SMS distro list of the Red Shirts (and they have one), then they could get their message out to the Reds in general.. They'll have to tailor the message though... if they think they can threaten, coerce, or shoot Pysops propaganda at these folks, they're not thinking straight.. Judging from some of the gaffes so far, they'd better get it right..

Oh the Reds have the SMS distro list.. How many folks are on it?? I dunno but I do know on several occassions the Red leaders have sounded the alarm and squawked about the "security forces are coming" and within an hour had thousands of folks on motorcycles, in cars and trucks come screaming up to the Rajaprasong area.. And that was when all their radio stations had been silenced, before they got the Lumpini Station up...

[parrot]

KP, it doesn't matter how many people are actually in Bangkok protesting (% of overall population). What matters is that they've had, and continue to have an impact with the current government. The folks in the villages who หาเช้า กินค่ำ (ha chao, gin kahm -live from hand to mouth), who see their kids getting a third-rate education, and get to enjoy none of the luxuries of city life would support anyone who is against the establishment. The number of red shirt folks may be small.......but, for now, they're the squeaky wheel.