Deaths in Bangkok

[Farang1]

5) The government will take actions to study the public feelings of injustice regarding to political system, especially after what happened over last few years, and try to solve the problems.

I beleive that that could be a step in the right direction but, isn't it like, "having the fox guard the hen house?"

It could work if the government could get past the corruption.

"We're with the government. We're here to help."

[Khun Paul]

Regarding election Nov 14th, one postee said reds can hold up their heads they WON, NO-ONE has won unless you say if you break the majority of the rules of the land , intimidate the innocent public, attack at random and cuase millions of baht worth of damage and also to the general wealth of the country IS ACCEPTABLE , then yes you have won.
reality is no-one has won, many have lsot and the country has now to get itself out of the mess, which knowing that the mindset of the Thai population they will again get the Governemnt that pays them, and so it will go on until the general public wakes up and says enough is enough.
I together with many foreigners will watch but I wont personally hold my breath.

[bumper]

Agreed Paul, but you need a starting point if this is it I will be grateful for it. As the alternative won't be pretty.

So I will stick with they have won. In hopes that in future months more though will be given to finding the middle ground. Pad is still out there. I saw nothing that precluded prosecution in the offer. I honestly believe there are some that need to be prosecuted as they went far beyond a protest. But, that should happen in a Court of Law.

Not perfect by any means but it is first step. Keep in mind protesters have already refused a similar offer. Reject this and a bloodbath is certainly possible. Time to stop the losses and move on. That would be a win for everyone, can't do much about what has been done we can't change that. But maybe they can keep more people out of body bags. I would not be surprised if they say no and there is a bloodbath.

I'm hoping, we don't see that and if saying they won stops it I will yell it at the top of my lungs. The real win is if Thai Politics are not conducted in the manner again.

[bumper]

Note: it says being considered doesn't say it's there yet.

Asia Pacific News

Thailand to consider amnesty for protest leaders: source
Posted: 04 May 2010 1622 hrs

Supporters of Thailand's ousted PM Thaksin Shinawatra (portrait held up) protest outside Government House in Bangkok.

BANGKOK: Thai authorities are ready to discuss an amnesty for anti-government protest leaders as part of a proposed reconciliation roadmap to November elections, a government source said Tuesday.

"The government wants to create a good climate and end the protests. Details will be discussed later. However, one of the topics that will discussed is related to an amnesty," the source told AFP, asking not to be named.

Arrest warrants have been issued for many top leaders of the "Red Shirt" movement, which has been protesting in Bangkok since mid-March in its campaign for elections despite a ban on rallies under a state of emergency in the city.

Red Shirt leaders were on Tuesday considering Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's proposal to hold elections on November 14 to end the stand-off.

There have been a series of tense confrontations between the demonstrators and the security forces in Bangkok, where 27 people died and nearly 1,000 were injured in unrest last month.

According to the Bangkok Post newspaper, the government is open to talks about an amnesty for people who have violated the ban on gatherings, but not for those who have committed criminal offences.

It said the Red Shirts were pushing for an amnesty decree for protesters, some of whom stormed parliament in April, forcing lawmakers to flee.

Many of the opposition demonstrators are seeking the return of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and lives abroad to avoid a jail term for corruption.

[bumper]

Well it doesn't look like it is over. One leader accepted the plan, is there a split in the ranks?

BREAKINGNEWS »

Red-shirt leaders demand PM to specify House dissolution date

The red-shirt leaders Tuesday demanded that the prime minister announce a specific day for House dissolution before they will join the government's roadmap for political resolution.

They announced that the prime minister had no authority to set the election date on November 14 as the power belongs to the Election Commission.

They demanded that the government must show its sincerity towards political reconciliation by halting all kinds of intimidation towards the red-shirt protesters.

The Nation

From TAN

Veera Agrees to Join Peace Talks to Avoid More Death
UPDATE : 4 May 2010
Red-shirt core leader Veera Musikkapong has formally accepted the proposal made by PM Abhisit Vejjajiva as a foundation for further negotiations to end the red-shirt rally to avoid any more casualty.

[bumper]

Man this is changing faster then I can post them last one till we find out if there is an agreement or not. Look like a little give and take might just make it work we will see.

Reds conditionally agree to the road map
By The Nation

The red shirts have accepted the road map for reconciliation under four condition, their leader Veera Musigapong said from the Rajprasong rally site.

The four conditions are a clear date for the dissolution of Parliament paving way for the November 14 poll, a show of sincerity by stopping all types of intimidation, no amnesty on criminal charges related to terrorism and anti-monarchy offence and immediate stop to involving the monarchy in the political conflict.

Veera said the red-shirt leaders had formed an unanimous decision for the conditional acceptance of the road map for reconciliation in order to prevent further loss of life.

Red-shirt leader Natthawut Saikua said the red shirts were prepared to fight their charges to the fullest extent of the law and that he challenged the government and the authorities to face up to the same legal treatment if found to have involved in the killings of innocent people in the April 10 violence.

[trubrit]

Well, just been listening to the red shirt radio 97.5. It would seem the timetable as laid out by Abhisit is broadly acceptable. The stumbling blocks appear to be, on the govt side, that Abhisit hasn't consulted the rest of his cabinet. So you have the likes of Chuan Leekpai the Democrat party advisor saying " We haven't agreed to dissolving parliament, and on the red side , an insistence that their TV channel and other Internet sites are no longer blocked , to permit them to put their point of view .So it would appear that there is still a long way to go .Lets hope common sense prevails on both sides .

[bumper]

Chuan Leekpai from the last I read wants to go arrest them. I did note that the PM has not discussed this before his announcement. lets hope it stay's in discussions and is resolved peacefully. It may be close if it's a give and take. Less bosturious talk on both sides of the fence would be a better.

I believe this is as close as I have seen it since it started.

[Farang1]

2) The government will carry out national reform to do away with injustice in the economic and olitical structures.

As part of the process, the government will provide good social welfare, education, health etc, as well as other things to people suffering from other plights.

Apparently things had alraedy been in the works before Abhisit announcement. This is part of my wife's email she sent today. One of the issues that the yellow shirts were saying was, the reds aren't educated to be able to make decisions in government. I would say that this would be a start to help the poor improve their plights.

Yesterday,I went to Nong Han for meeting.It's about curriculum improvement and teaching.The director of Udonthani office area3 wants some teachers go learn Master degree of Education.Teachers from Bkk will come to teach at NongHan school.In the future all teacher in Thailand need to have Master Degre of education so they can improve their teaching.Learning will start on June 5th.

The yellows probably don't want the reds educated because an educated slave is an unhappy slave.

[Khun Paul]

Maybe there is some hope, it is a shame that a perfectly legal elected Government sees the need to disolve a good government ( well better than the last few at any rate ) in order to facilitate a return to normalacy, however some movement is better than none.
One hopes , which I do really beleive is a lost cause, that the elections will be corruption free and voters will not get paid, in that case we we will have a good elected government. BUT as with so many things we will get the Governemnt that pays the voters more.. mores the pity and the wheel will turn and maybe a new colour will emerge next year..May I reccomend black with a red stripe down the back within which will be a yellow strip, The sign of Thailands democracy dying.

[maaka]

My ex from Udon has her degree in education, and now doing her masters in education, so these things were in train before this matter blew up..indeed their are many educated Isaan people, every man and his dog has a degree, thats more than I can say..so I dont quite go for the one about red shirts are not educated and therefore are unable to make decisions in government..
I guess what I see is that there is a new trend forming the last few years, where if one is not happy with the government, then one just takes over part of BKK , or a hospital , or some such valuable asset, and after a while the government will give in and hold new elections..doesnt hold much for a stable future if every johnny jumps up and down every couple of years or so..oh well each to his own..
'

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Khun Paul, which legally elected government are you talking about?

[Aardvark]

Khun Paul, which legally elected government are you talking about?

The one that sacked the last one, then lost the Election and formed a Coalition silly

[bumper]

Their capability. What they just did with the protest, proves they are very capable people. I can't even imagine what it took to organize all that has been done. Ya I think they can clearly decide who they wish to vote for.

Buying votes was just normal for both sides. Hopefully their system will become more sofisticated and they to can have lobbyist to further their clients needs. Hidden as pork in legitimate bills to get the votes needed to pass them.

Now me I come from a place where we have the best Government money can buy, and has been. bought for many years.

So I don't think I'm going to say much about that.

[Khun Paul]

it would appear that the ' Road Map' could be acceptable however as per usual the Reds are putting pre-conditions on their total acceptance.
I always wonder who is governing who and do the Thais really have clue what is happening in reality and now the reds are going to help the Puea Thai party, which as most people are aware of is Thaskin backed to the hilt albeit in a very roundabout way.

[trubrit]

and now the reds are going to help the Puea Thai party, which as most people are aware of is Thaskin backed to the hilt albeit in a very roundabout way.

Where have you been KP? The reds have always been supportive to the PT group. From day one I have watched existing MP"s from that party up on the stage giving their all in encouragement .Thaksin was their leader who was outed , illegally by a military coupe. Why wouldn't they be supportive of him ? Rightly or wrongly. They are at least showing loyalty to the boss , which is more than you can say for the other lot .Didn't you realise . That is what it is all about .? :-"

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Let's see if the government will try to use the courts to declare the Puea Thai Party illegal before the next elections. One would hope they would not as it would be seen as an act of bad faith if the red shirt leaders decide to accept a negotiated end to the protests. It is a good way to end things with no more loss of blood and injuries.

[bumper]

Yep. The date in general terms by the P.M. latter part of September now lets see how far they push this. Which could be a big mistake. There are still lot of people on the powers side that don't won't to give an inch.

Guess we will see today.

[Farang1]

I guess you can please everybody.....

Thailand's 'Yellow Shirts' call for premier to stand down

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's pro-establishment "Yellow Shirts" Thursday called on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to stand down, criticising his reconciliation roadmap which envisages fresh elections in November.

The Yellows, who had previously backed Abhisit's embattled administration, accused the premier of bowing to the demands of the rival "Red Shirts" who have mounted weeks of crippling street protests to push for snap polls.

The group, formally known as the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), also accused Abhisit of conducting secret negotiations with representatives of the Reds' hero -- ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra who was ousted in a 2006 coup.

"We demand the prime minister reconsider and cancel the election date, and for the prime minister to step down and make way for another person," said Yellows spokesman Suriyasai Katasila.

The group said Abhisit should not have announced election plans for November 14, and vowed to oppose any attempt to change the constitution or grant an amnesty for politicians hit with bans after their parties were dissolved.

The five-point reconciliation process aims to settle those contentious issues, and end the crisis that has damaged Thailand's economy and its reputation as the "Land of Smiles".

Abhisit said Thursday he was ready to dissolve parliament in September, but refused to set the exact time frame being demanded by the Reds before they dismantle their vast protest camp in Bangkok's top retail district.

Chamlong Srimuang, a core Yellow Shirts leader, said Thailand's problems would only worsen after the dissolution of the lower house, and subsequent elections.

"The prime minister has reconciled with terrorists by planning to dissolve the house, it's extremely bad for the country and the monarchy," he said.

Another Yellows leader Somsak Kosaisuk called on the government to decisively enforce the law against Red Shirts who have refused to leave their camp despite signing up to the roadmap.

Other figures in the movement accused Abhisit of abandoning those who have supported the government in its fight against Thaksin's allies.

Thailand is largely split between the mainly rural poor and urban working class Reds, and the Yellows, who blockaded Bangkok's two main airports in 2008, before a controversial court verdict removed Thaksin's allies from power.

Abhisit's government was then appointed in a parliamentary vote with the backing of the army -- triggering charges from the Reds that the administration is illegitimate and the puppet of Thailand's elites.


-- (c)Copyright AFP 2010-05-06
Published with written approval from AFP

[bumper]

No one could be surprised by this development. Guess better dust of the benches at Government house. This has been the real problem all along. We are i just going to get a change colors of shirts.

Until someone finds a real middle ground if there is one this is just going to continue. By the way I'm not so sure there is a middle ground.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 28742.html

And the paper Tiger speaks yet again, who is going to believe them after all this:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 28739.html