kiwi girl dies of food poisoning

[maaka]

seems a young kiwi girl died in the last few days of food poisoning, after eating seafood, or seaweed, purchased at a market in Chiang Mai. her two traveling companions are in CM hospital recovering

[maaka]

UPDATE...its now seems the kiwi girl did not die from food poisoning as first thought as toxic reoprts came back negative. However, now we have learned that that a Thai woman died in the hotel room next door to the kiwi girls, and a british couple died in the room directly below the kiwi girls room, all within days of each other..This was at the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai.. Authorities have not been to helpful as to tracking down the cause

[wazza]

Legionaires ??, Meningoccal ??

[maaka]

yup its a mystery Wazza..I am lead to believe the Downtown Inn is a newish hotel, several stories high, quite plush and modern..there were 3 kiwi girls sharing a room, they all became nauseous and vomitted over a 24hr period, might even have had a fever. One died the other two pulled thru..I dont have much info on the Thai lady, only that staff were seen carrying her body down the fire escape, and as for the old Pommie couple, they were just found dead in their beds the next day, not a mark on any of them...my guess is directed at the air conditioning units, as I cant think of anything else that the three separate rooms had in common, other than that, some sort of undectable fumes perhaps, but I thought the toxic report on the body would have brought that up....

if anyone hears any news, or test results from the English couple or thai lady, can you let me know, as the kiwi girls parents are hanging out for answers why this happened..thanks

[jonny_w]

I'll make sure not to stay at: Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai

[wazza]

Air Con ventilation can also carry CO as well, but the link I would be following still is some form of consumption assoc with the kitchen, listeria, E coli , Salmonella etc

A few years ago in CM a similar issue occured with expats also ?? and local authorities were perplexed , but it ended up being some nasty bug from the food from memory....

The other issue is the competency of the local authorites who did the Post Mortems, Did they do a CO test on the blood prior to the first incision ? In forensic medicine u need to ask questions and ask why ???? then go looking. If you dont look, thou shall not seek

As its all but 1 involving foreigners, I really quesion the influences on the medical staff to find ( or not ) a conclusive cause of death and the pressure applied for an open finding so as not to harm the image of CM. Tourist reputaion is at stake here, not the families request for answers.

I would strongly advise the families to conduct a seperate PM, if they can afford to transport the deceased home.. Or at least have blood and tissue samples taken for further analysis back in NZ and UK.

[BarnicaleBob]

I drove by the Downtown Hotel in Chiang Mai today and they were open for business with tourist sitting out on the patio and in the lobby like everything was just fine. One would think with four people killed with in a few day of each other the hotel would be closed until the cause was found but this is Thailand.
I have a feeling the cause of death may have been something not easy to see the cause of, maybe something like carbon monoxide poisoning.

[maaka]

thanks fellas for the replies thus far..
from what I understand for the girls father, they authorities didnt do a blood test..which has him perplexed of course..

as for the question whether it was food that did it..I find it a long shot that the kiwi girls, the thai lady and the UK couple all ate the same food, days apart, and it is strange that the rooms were either next door or directly below, indeed why didnt other guests get sick if it was the hotel food....

however from what I can gather, the deaths occurred during the night..whether the thai/uk people became nauseous and vomitted, and had a high fever, I am uncertain..I think they just went to bed and didnt wake up..

BBoB next time you drive by the hotel, can you have a quick look to see what type of businesses operate beside, and to the rear of the hotel..thanks..

I would be giving the hotel a wide berth if it was me, after four mysterious deaths, hence my naming the of place here, and drawing it to members /viewers attention..

[trubrit]

I would be giving the hotel a wide berth if it was me, after four mysterious deaths, hence my naming the of place here, and drawing it to members /viewers attention..

Regardless of the cause of death I would avoid any establishment like the plague that carried a dead person out by the fire exit. An attempt to conceal the event, seems too be the only reason for that if its true.

[nkstan]

THE DOWNTOWN INN

[wazza]

I would be giving the hotel a wide berth if it was me, after four mysterious deaths, hence my naming the of place here, and drawing it to members /viewers attention..

Regardless of the cause of death I would avoid any establishment like the plague that carried a dead person out by the fire exit. An attempt to conceal the event, seems too be the only reason for that if its true.

Totally disgree Trubrit on the fire exit issue.

The transfer of the deceased is done with dignity. NOT to conceal a crime but to do it with repsect and not to draw attention to the general members of the public etc. How would you like to be , sitting down in your hotel foyer waiting for the pick up van to meet you for the tour you have booked , then to see a deceased person carried out in front ou you and your family and out bvia the front door.

Having done and assisted in many of these situations, I can assure you , that service lifts, fire exits, and other non public areas are generally the first choice.

I still see the issue of the fatalities are being suspect untill proven otherwise.

[wazza]

There are many various posts, comments and articles on this Topic on the internet, I cant open many, due to the company firewall, but this is a reasonable article and worth reading.

This happened nearly a month ago.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2011/03/ ... s-to-four/

Consulates need to be more aggressive with their desire to resolve this for their citizens , but as I have noticed over the years that many times they pay lip service to this sort of stuff, dont upset the apple cart and throw cotton wool over the whole incident. Whilst they cant request from the local authorities any changes etc to local laws etc, they can still be all over them with just hassling them. Conducting media releases and TV interviews for the NZ press, these are seen back in NZ by the Thai consulates for sure and they report back adverse publicity.

I read that no post mortem was done and the NZ girl was buried , with the family trusting the Thai authorities to find the cause etc.

Its traumatic at the time for the families, BUT thats where the NZ consulate should have strongly advise the family to have a 2nd review of the clinical issues whilst the patient was still in Thailand. They know the score well and truly with cover ups.

Their only hope now is the 2nd blood tests of the survivors, No stool tests done ??

If its not a cover up its still smacks of incompetent forensic investigation to find the root cuase of these tragic deaths.

[Zidane]

The Thai manager of the hotel,a Mr.Thanthep Bunkeow,maintains that the deaths are a co-incidence!
As regards the elderly English couple,the lady was found lying on the bed whilst her husband was in a sitting position on the floor with his face falling forward onto the bed.
The Thai media has speculated that they both died of heart attacks after having sex !

With the rooms involved either next to or below it would seem most likely that some sort of fumes have entered the rooms via the ventilation system.....quite possibly carbon monoxide poisoning,as has been mentioned.
Its pretty dreadful that the hotel is carrying on business as usual but TIT......look out for 4 suicide verdicts later !

[BarnicaleBob]

(The Thai manager of the hotel,a Mr.Thanthep Bunkeow,maintains that the deaths are a co-incidence) I spent 32 years as a cop and if there is nothing else I learned in all that time it is "there is no such thing as co-incidence".

[21again]

(The Thai manager of the hotel,a Mr.Thanthep Bunkeow,maintains that the deaths are a co-incidence) I spent 32 years as a cop and if there is nothing else I learned in all that time it is "there is no such thing as co-incidence".

STRANGERS ON A TRAIN

In the 1920s, three Englishman were traveling separately by train through Peru. At the time of their introduction, they were the only three men in the railroad car. Their introductions were more surprising than they could have imagined. One man's last name was Bingham, and the second man's last name was Powell. The third man announced that his last name was Bingham-Powell. None were related in any way. (Mysteries of the Unexplained)

Yes they do exist, and that is why there are a lot of innocent people in jail'
Getting back on topic, these four deaths could all be un-related, but as the New Zealand lass Sarah has been buried without a post-mortem it could make it almost impossible to ascertain her cause of death.

[BarnicaleBob]

21again's quote: One man's last name was Bingham, and the second man's last name was Powell. The third man announced that his last name was Bingham-Powell. None were related in any way. (Mysteries of the Unexplained)
Well Bingham-Powell: When the last time you have seen a MAN with a hyphenated last name, it is mostly married women who do that. He very well could have been telling a lie, maybe just to be funny. Like I said, I don't believe in co-incidences. Think of it this way, who would you rather have investigating a case someone who believed in co-incidences or someone who did not? Any good cop never believes in co-incidences.

[wazza]

Having dealt professionally with various Police departments in Australia, with my profession.

A good cop or a good investigation, asks good questions, they write down what they see , not what they think they saw.

BB is spot on,

good Policing is about slow , tedious reviewing of all the evidence submitted and constantly going over every little bit , no matter how unimportant some might think it is.

Im currently on 2 Incident investigation teams, 1 seems ok and the other , scratch the surface and ask a few, whys, when, and hows and its no coincidence that things occur !

All incidents have a root cause and the deaths of 4 people a day apart in separate rooms with different age groups in the same hotel is NO coincidence.

Im a skeptic and there is no such thing as a coincidence !

[BarnicaleBob]

AS per maaka's request, I went back to the Downtown Inn today and took a few photos so everyone could see what a nice place it is. :-"
The first thing I noticed was that there were no businesses of any sort connecting or close to the hotel and those that were closest did not appear to have any obvious sources of gas or vapor leaks. There is a soi on three sides and the pool and deck on the other side. I think it is safe to rule out anything from a nearby business as the cause. I asked to see a room stating that I might want to rent one next time I come to town and the man took me to a room on the 5th floor. None of the hallway or none of the doors to any of the rooms were blocked off. Some crime scene! The only tourist I saw in the hotel (and there were at least 8 that I saw) were French and none of them seemed to speak English when I tried to talk to them. when I noticed a swimming pool the thought of possible chlorine gas came to mind but as I checked rooms 514 and 516 where at least 3 and maybe all four of the deaths occurred I found they were on the other side of the hotel, so that rules that out. At this point without any autopsy report I'm at a loss for COD (cause of death). As I was leaving a policeman was pulling up on his motorcycle, not knowing if he had been called about me or not I didn't stick around any longer and left. At any rate, I have taken a personal interest in this case and have decided to make it my hobby to find out what happened, I'll post again when I have finished at detailed report. In the mean time I would like to interview one of the NZ survivors if anyone knows them and can set up an intro for me. I have made dozens of suspicious death reports in my career and in most cases have found the COD. I still have a few cards to play I hope I can do the same for this one.

[maaka]

Bob, you are the salt of the earth mate..

Thanks for taking time out to do a recon of the place, and getting right in there boots and all..I would have you in my team anyday..thanks also for the pics..helps alot and much appreciated. Cant see anything out of the ordinary, except the buildling is easy to scale from the outside...I did note in a brouchure that flowers are laid on the bed pillows in the rooms, but heck they would need to be poison ivy to get a reaction..

Bob I am not sure if the other two kiwi girls who survived, are still in Chiangmai Hospital. I will try my hardest to see if I can make contact with the families. I am sure they would be very grateful to have a westerner with your experience, in there poking around, and on the ground.

you had my line of thought re the surrounding businesses, so that idea is cancelled out..the girls systoms of vomitting appear food related, but four people dying in adjoining or nearby rooms, a day apart, is no co incidence in my book...my guess is the manager knows what caused the deaths..heck it could even be a rival competitor trying to force the hotel to close down so he gets the business..

keep me posted Bob if you will, and I will try making contact with the families today, however I am in NZ, but I have a led, so will track it down..Maaka

[maaka]

BOB..
I have made contact with the journalist who did the tv doco on the kiwi girls death, and the production manager. most interested and were quite open about the situation, and they are meeting with family members this afternoon NZ time (6hrs ahead of thailand)..I have suggested that perhaps the families would like to make direct contact with you..the journalist will put that to them this afternoon, and I am awaiting a reply..if you are agreeable, then perhaps you can PM me a contact phone so I can give to them...

it appears the another death occurred afew years ago at the same hotel, that of an american woman, and her husband rang the tv studio when he saw the doco on tv...seems his wife died of the same systoms, a swelling of the heart..the two kiwi girls are back home in NZ, came home for the dead girls funeral..apparently thier hospiatl tests showed they also suffered from a swelling of the heart...

the american womans husband suspected food posioning, but not necessarily the hotels food, but a supplier in the CM area..thats the direction they are now looking at, but that is not to say it is the right direction...I will keep you posted as to the families respond to my/your assistance...

there is a medical term for swellling of the heart M.................ism...( wazza or co might be able to shine some light on this side of things...keep up the good work Bob...