Pirates of Somalia....

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Farang1
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Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Farang1 » January 19, 2010, 7:50 am

OK. So, color me confused. :? This has been going on for a few years, now. Last year, they received ransoms totaling over $50m. They successfully hijacked 68 ships and are still holding 11. 1st question comes to mind is, why don't the companies get together and travel in convoys. The navy would probably be happy to send along an escort ship or 2. 2nd question is, why don't they hire some security personnel and put some guns on the ships. A 25mm M242 chain gun would comes as a bit of a surprise to the pirates. (Blackwater personnel would probably be happy to have the opertunity to shoot something.)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100118/ts ... Rlc2dldHJl



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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Bandung_Dero » January 19, 2010, 8:07 am

Well a 7 million dollar ransom has just been paid and the greedy bastards started killing each other over the loot, so that worked! =D>

Story here. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... ion=justin

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Farang1 » January 19, 2010, 8:17 am

7 mil plus another 2 mil wire transfer.

As far as the dead, I'm sure there are plenty more to take their place.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Texpat » January 19, 2010, 2:40 pm

Don't negotiate with terrorists. It's simple.

Make the temptation so unfavorable for them that hijacking is a worse prospect than living life in their horrible little squatter camps. Treating these animals like humans only emboldens their resolve.

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MALC
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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by MALC » January 20, 2010, 6:21 am

get back to basics. if somone hits you . you hit them back fxxxx the rule of law

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Farang1 » January 20, 2010, 8:48 am

MALC wrote:get back to basics. if somone hits you . you hit them back fxxxx the rule of law
My point exactly!

Right now, there is very little risk to be hijacking ships. Put, guns on the ships, increase their risks. Ships traveling in convoys with a gun ship or 2 as escorts, increase their risk. Now, the biggest risk piracy poses is, amongst themselves.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by jackspratt » January 20, 2010, 8:59 pm

Such simple (simplistic?) solutions.

Let's just forget about established international maritime law, which allows free access on the seas to vessels of all countries, under very clearly laid down conventions.

What about the countries that these merchant vessels will eventually need to tie up in - are they all going to be happy with a heavily armed presence in their ports? Methinks not.

Please - no coming back (a la GWB) and saying I must support the pirates, because my earlier posts on this subject demonstrate my POV.

And "fukc the rule of law" - now that really is progressive thinking. :confused:

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Texpat » January 20, 2010, 9:39 pm

Blast the fu@ckers to kingdom come when they get too close to your ship. Not with sound or water cannons, or daffodils or rainbow sugar cookies. With some good, old-fashioned 556, warheads on foreheads. Be as ruthless as they are. That's all they understand.

Get it on film and broadcast it (pay for the screenings if you must) on every TV station in Somalia, unedited. Let everyone know the end result of their kidnap, extortion and thievery schemes. They're counting on yellow-bellied, cowardly nations (we know who they are) to rush to their defense. They're exploiting unpoliced international waters.

Of course the libtards of the world will scream out that they're merely "innocent civilians," just trying to make a living. I suspect there's a few posters on UM that might defend them. Pay no attention to that idiocy.

Have a floating mercenary ship at each end of the Somalia stretch. Take your security (men and weapons) aboard at one end, discharge them at the other. If it's successful, start an identical setup in Malacca Straits.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Farang1 » January 21, 2010, 4:11 am

jackspratt wrote:Let's just forget about established international maritime law, which allows free access on the seas to vessels of all countries, under very clearly laid down conventions.
Maritime law gives all countries free access to the open seas. But, doesn't it also give the owners of ships the right to protect their crews, their ships and cargo? And that is what we are talking about.

Or is it the same argument against owning guns, the police, navies, whoever, are there to protect us.

When seconds count, the police are minutes away.

There are a mulitude of solutions to the problem of piracy, the question I brought up in my OP was, why isn't anybody using them in these areas of high piracy? 'Tis a puzzlement.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by jackspratt » January 21, 2010, 7:46 am

Texpat wrote: Of course the libtards of the world will scream out that they're merely "innocent civilians," just trying to make a living. I suspect there's a few posters on UM that might defend them. Pay no attention to that idiocy.
In excess of 150 posts on this subject (across 3 threads), and not one "defender" yet that I have seen.

I would say creating straw men is the idiocy.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Texpat » January 21, 2010, 11:54 am

I suspect (supppose, perhaps) there's a few that might (may, maybe, possibly) defend them. In your haste to refute, please don't skip over the qualifiers, they have meaning and their exclusion changes the intent of the statement.

Who's building straw men?

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by UdonExpat » January 21, 2010, 12:32 pm

I can imagine the British, Spanish, Portuguese, and French maritime owners having similar discussions in the late 1600's and 1700's while the pirates continued to eat them for lunch.

Maybe sometime soon a cruise line will start offering pirate cruises. You get an automatic weapon all the ammo you can carry and they cruise up and down the coast line of Somalia. Happy hunting!!

In the meantime, the 'rule of law' will keep most shipping companies captive while the pirates have their way. :pirate:

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Aardvark » January 21, 2010, 4:34 pm

I wouldn't want to be on an Oil Tanker or an LPG Carrier when the Bullets start flying [-(

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by rick » January 25, 2010, 9:34 am

So when is a Somali boat containing a fisherman or a pirate? The blow the F*ckers out of the water if they get close tactic is what US soldiers did in Iraq with cars driven by the locals. They made a lot of friends that way.

Yes theres a problem with pirates. Main one is who's going to pay for the navy patrols or the guards. Shipping lines are all to mean to do it.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Aardvark » January 25, 2010, 4:31 pm

How about the Insurance Companies who stand to make MILLIONS :-"

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by wazza » January 25, 2010, 9:07 pm

Im pretty sure the sums have been done , and its cheaper to pay out than to pay Hijack insurance.

Lloyds will charge on average X as an additional premium for routes in that area, and only pay out 4 times per year at say $20 Million, and the ship owners are still in front.

How many vessels per year go down that route ?? 000's

The risk assessors and actuaries are well aware of the bottom line.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by jackspratt » January 26, 2010, 8:42 am

An interesting article here on piracy, from The Economist.

http://www.economist.com/world/middleea ... d=15214052

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by Texpat » January 26, 2010, 7:07 pm

rick wrote:blow the F*ckers out of the water if they get close tactic is what US soldiers did in Iraq with cars driven by the locals. They made a lot of friends that way.
Offenders are given plenty of opportunity to reconsider what they're about to undertake. If they chose not to heed the advice and continue on anyway, well, we can't all live forever, can we?

A small consolation is that their extremely ill-advised decision will be viewed by a small number of armchair quarterbacks as over reacting and unnecessary.

A small price to pay for security, I'd say. I'm sure it wasn't only US soldiers using this method of protecting themselves.

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Re: Pirates of Somalia....

Post by rick » January 28, 2010, 6:50 am

Well texpat, not interested in getting off subject about Iraq here. But part of the problem started when international fishing boats moved into Somalian waters (as there is no effective government to stop them) and indiscriminately harvested the fish. So the local fishermen could catch very little. In response, some fishermen started 'detaining' these illegal fishermen - who promptly paid others too protect them. With few fish to catch, but guns to dispute who has the right to fish, the fishermen were only one step away from becoming pirates - which some of then did.

The only way you will get the fishermen back to catching fish is if it is a viable alternative. But until MONEY is spent by someone it will not happen. As has been said, currently cheaper and easier just to pay them off. Sinking fishing boats because they MIGHT be pirates is a sure way to make things worse - you may clear the seas of pirates for a while but you will further alienate the inhabitants of this region, and it will take a long time for that to be forgotten. It either needs more naval patrols, enforced convoys or armed ships/guards, or a way to make the local inhabitants realise that hijacking ships is counter-productive. One way would be to forcibly recapture all ships - some lives would be lost, but piracy would become uneconomic. You could locate known pirates houses and give them a few missiles from a drone - hopefully they will get the message; not even necessary to kill anyone deliberately. Could try a bit of gunboat diplomacy - anchor close inshore, next to where pirates operate, ask for the money back, if not, 24 hours later we will shell a few buildings.

It requires firm action, not necessarily blood. Remember it is a business, not ideology you are fighting here - you just need to make piracy uneconomic. So far, pirates have never executed a hostage, only ones who have died have been during recaptures; they know if they kill anyone it will be bad for business. But you also need to provide an alternative way of making a living.

Finally one other idea - in the 1st world war to combat submarines the british built 'Q' ships - disguised armed boats. That would be a further element of surprise that might work.

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