ClimateGate busts things wide open

[jackspratt]

Yes, it shows what I have been positing all along: The Science Is NOT Settled and the models and data are easily manipulated -- accidentally or purposely -- but always in the most disastrous direction.

Believers say "the science is settled." Real scientists never believe that. Believers provide no answers to basic questions. Believers want everyone to just accept their data, accept their models, accept their beliefs -- without providing relevant information as to WHAT and HOW.

I've asked these questions before across many forums. Still no answers.

1. What is the measurement -- specifically -- of man's contribution to climate change?
How much -- at what percentage -- is man's contribution to climate change? How was the earth warmer before -- with no planes, trains and automobiles or industrialization -- than it is now?

2. What will Believers do -- specifically -- to reverse, stop or slow climate change?
What specific measures will be taken and how?

3. How -- specifically -- will Believers spend the money from carbon taxes?
Talking about solar panels and wind farms isn't specific.

4. What measurable result -- specifically -- will we see from the Believers' efforts to reverse, stop or slow climate change?
What percentage of the claimed MMCC will be reduced after the Believer's plan are put to work? What percentage of MMCC will be reversed, stopped or slowed? More importantly, how will it be maintained? Will a hurricane, volcano, earthquake or tsunami destroy what has been accomplished? By how much?

5. How do Believers explain all of the mistakes in data and models that exaggerate the agenda of Believers?
Why are there never mistakes made that LESSEN the effects of MMCC? The mistakes are always exaggerations of the Earth being destroyed.

This is how to win the internet.

http://www.conservativesforum.com/cgi-b ... 1542843652

As with every argument with a LIB or a MMCC Believer, simple questions cause their heads to explode. No Believer will be able to satisfactorily answer any of these questions. None of them. In the past 7 years, I've only had one try to answer a couple of the questions, but eventually admitted he had no answer and didn't know where to find the answers.

As with every argument with a LIB or a MMCC Believer, simple questions cause their heads to explode. No Believer will be able to satisfactorily answer any of these questions. None of them. In the past 7 years, I've only had one try to answer a couple of the questions, but eventually admitted he had no answer and didn't know where to find the answers.

You can walk away from the discussion as the Victor.

[Lone Star]

Scott Adams' top 5 arguments against climate alarmism:

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1gqGvnVYBYBGB

Climate alarmism is just a modern version of man’s primal superstitions about cataclysmic natural events. But these fears are baseless for there is no legitimate evidence to show that “extreme weather is increasing or sea level rise is accelerating.”

Climate alarmism is a form of Groupthink — or, as Heller puts it, the Emperor’s New Clothes. This Groupthink requires ignoring the evidence and instead deferring to the opinions of a very small body of parti pris “experts”.

If the case for the “global warming” were as strong as these experts say, the debate would be over by now. Instead, all of their “apocalyptic predictions” have failed miserably. What reason do we have to believe them after all this time?

Climate alarmism is entirely dependent on graphs and computer models which rely on cherry-picked or corrupt data. Few if any of these models have come close to forecasting real world outcomes.

The proposed solutions to “climate change” are “unworkable, dangerous and useless.”

Agree.

[Lone Star]

Australian minister makes the claim based on the mammal not being seen since 2009.

[Doodoo]

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... y-melomys/


Efforts to capture/locate the animal since 2009 have come up with no sightings

I dont know what other evidence would be available to convince no believers.

[Lone Star]

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... y-melomys/


Efforts to capture/locate the animal since 2009 have come up with no sightings

I dont know what other evidence would be available to convince no believers.

The point is that its extinction doesn't automatically result from climate. THAT evidence doesn't exist.

[Doodoo]

National Geographic, Australian Minister of Environment, The Sydney Morning Herald (Reporting) are all wrong

" In a 2016 research paper on that survey, scientists said "climate change-induced sea-level rise" was one of the factors behind the extinction, concluding the rodent was "the first mammal to go extinct due to human-induced climate change."

They must be stopped in False News

I didn't realize

[Lone Star]

National Geographic, Australian Minister of Environment, The Sydney Morning Herald (Reporting) are all wrong

" In a 2016 research paper on that survey, scientists said "climate change-induced sea-level rise" was one of the factors behind the extinction, concluding the rodent was "the first mammal to go extinct due to human-induced climate change."

They must be stopped in False News

I didn't realize

They said . . .

I guess nothing besides that is required in the World of the Believer. Just like all the other mmcc claims and predictions.

[Doodoo]

Yes people have to stop this old way of communicating "They said"and discover a new way to tell all what is really happening
Pictures could be the way or using an informative, online city portal and busy community forum with over 16,000 members, and averaging 5,000 visitors (hits) daily, provides no-nonsense information on almost every Udon Thani related subject.

[papafarang]

bramble cay, well if they can't find a rodent when this is all that's left of the place, i'm a believer.

[Doodoo]

Papa
Thanks for the visual arts BUT there still will be non believers ones who will just say "They Said"

The 3.62-hectare (8.9-acre) sand cay is predominately grassland, with 1.72 hectares (4.3 acres) covered in grasses

He has to be hiding somewhere or did he catch the last ferry to the mainland?

Thanks again

[Lone Star]

Their disappearance doesn't mean that it was due to "human-induced climate change" -- as "they" believe.

Queensland scientists believe that "human-induced climate change" is responsible for the melomys' demise ... on an island where there doesn't seem to be much human activity -- if any. Coastal flooding is not factually linked to mmcc. Storm events aren't factually linked to mmcc. Neither are warming temperatures -- just weather in a 30-year span. All of those are naturally occurring events in nature that believers try to link to their data models.

With all this hand-wringing, I'm curious why someone didn't leap into action in the early 1990s when "they" suspected that the mammal was in danger of becoming extinct? Funny how all those concerned believers just let that happen over the last 25 years or so and couldn't do a damn thing about it.

[Doodoo]

"on an island where there doesn't seem to be much human activity -- if any. "
How is that linked to Climate Change?
Here is the actual statement. From Scientists not a Teacher , Law enforcement person, Harley riding individual

I therefore am not a Scientist and would tend to believe them before, well you know who

Queensland scientists believe that "human-induced climate change" is responsible for the melomys' demise. A combination of increasingly intense coastal flooding and storm events exacerbated by warming temperatures continuously inundated the flat island, eroding Bramble Cays' coastline and eliminating the melomys' habitat. And, more broadly, the Torres Strait is considered an area of special concern, as the indigenous populations that live within this region are vulnerable to rising air and water temperatures and increasingly intense storm events that may negatively affect the communities themselves as well as the natural resources they depend on.

[Lone Star]

The entire story shows the weak, disorganized and questionable abilities of believers to preserve an environment or relocate an endangered mammal that they themselves labeled at risk almost three decades ago. If believers can't affect an area so small, in one country, after claiming to understand and predict the demise of this mammal, they certainly can't have any meaningful effect on the rest of a vast world where there are tremendously more acts of nature and where humans are accused of having a greater impact on the environment.

Here these believers had an opportunity to show any effectiveness in reversing, stopping or slowing these environmental factors over almost three decades. Epic fail.

[papafarang]

we could go with the idea "they said" , but that leads us to bigfoot, been spotted but never captured. so simply put, just because they can't find one don't mean there are not real . i'm beginning to think they are no longer denialists, more fantasists. one thing LS has accepted, we are going through climate change , his argument is now down to is it man causing it , fair enough. at least he's taken his head out the sand "Their disappearance doesn't mean that it was due to "human-induced climate change" well at least he now believes in climate change ,he just don't believe it's us doing it.
you are right .the island seems to have little or no human activity so that discounts direct human interference

[Lone Star]

I believe that there is indeed global warming. The earth has been going through cycles for millions of years. The big question is what is causing it. I believe that this carbon tax thing is a massive scam to make money. Even Thailand is cashing in on the scam.

Agree.

Yes the climate has been changing for centuries, and there were even periods of time where it was warmer than it is now with no industrialization, no autos, no airline transportation.

Some people have an extremely difficult time keeping up (August 2017), but they love their straw man arguments and can't resist using them.

[Doodoo]

"Here these believers had an opportunity to show any effectiveness in reversing, stopping or slowing these environmental factors over almost three decades. Epic fail."

So, you have changed your stance and you are stating that there is climate change? or is it They /you said

[Lone Star]

"Here these believers had an opportunity to show any effectiveness in reversing, stopping or slowing these environmental factors over almost three decades. Epic fail."

So, you have changed your stance and you are stating that there is climate change? or is it They /you said

I NEVER said that the climate doesn't change.

In this particular instance, with this mammal, targeted as being at risk for almost 3 decades -- for whatever reason these believers attributed -- they did nothing to try to preserve that environment or relocate and save that mammal from extinction.

THEY claim it's climate induced by man, and yet, they could not and did not do anything over almost 3 decades after claiming to know the causes and outcome. If they DID do something, then that failed as well.

They identified a problem. They stated their analysis of the cause -- their expertise -- and failed to do what all their literature claims man can do -- reverse, stop or slow what they call mmcc and/or save the environment .

[rick]

I would agree with Lonestar (did i really say that?) That ascribed it's demise to Climate change is not really proven. Small, isolated populations of plants or animals are always vulnerable to extinction, some become extinct every year. Erosion, flooding, loss of habitat can all push species to extinction, but it doesn't HAVE to be climate induced. What we have is a crime but the murder weapon doesn't have the rat's DNA splattered on it. Climate change may have been a factor, but probably not the only one.

Did read a report (cannot find now) that in gulf states there is an increasing problem with fruit trees failing to set fruit, this is being blamed on loss of pollinators due o high temperatures or it just being to hot for pollen to survive. Now there is a climate change problem we do need to think about.

There are many far more serious potential impacts from climate change than the loss of one species on a 3 hectare island.

[yartims]

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2019 ... 988370002/


Iceberg twice the size of New York City about to break off Antarctica, says NASA
Brett Molina USA TODAY
Published 9:55 AM EST Feb 26, 2019

An iceberg about twice the size of New York City is expected to break on an ice shelf in Antarctica, says NASA.

Researchers are monitoring a giant crack in the center of the Brunt Ice Shelf in Antarctica. The crack had been stable for 35 years but has started accelerating toward another called the Halloween crack.

When the larger crack makes its way completely across, it will create an iceberg that's at least 660 square miles in size in a process called calving.

"We don’t have a clear picture of what drives the shelf’s periods of advance and retreat through calving," said Chris Shuman, a glaciologist with NASA and the University of Maryland Baltimore County, in a statement. "The likely future loss of the ice on the other side of the Halloween Crack suggests that more instability is possible."

[TJ]

If you read this climate-related article and the comments, can you pick out the more believable statements?
Trump's climate expert is wrong: The world's plants don't need more CO2
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3730607/posts