Bailouts Exceed Combined Costs of All Major US Wars

[WBU ALUM]

More proof that war funding and military expenditures are a drop in the bucket compared to paying for social programs in the US budget.

Value of 2008 Bailouts Exceeds Combined Costs of All Major U.S. Wars
Thursday, December 18, 2008
By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer

(CNSNews.com) – The total value of the bailouts undertaken by the federal government in 2008 now exceeds the combined cost of every major war the United States has ever engaged in, according to a comparison of war costs calculated by the Congressional Research Service (CRS) and the value of the bailouts as calculated by Bloomberg News or Bianco Research.

According to CRS, all major U.S. wars (including such events as the American Revolution, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish American War, World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, but not the invasion of Panama or the Kosovo War), cost a total of $7.2 trillion in inflation-adjusted 2008 dollars.

According to Bloomberg, the federal government has made commitments worth a total of $8.5 trillion in the bailouts of 2008. That includes actual expenditures as well as loan and asset guarantees.

Bianco Research puts the total value of the bailouts at $8.7 trillion.

The $296 billion spent on World War II, America’s most expensive war, would be $4.1 trillion adjusted to today’s dollars, according to the CRS report from June.

The adjusted cost of the Civil War would be $60.4 billion for both the Union and the Confederacy combined. The inflation-adjusted cost of the Vietnam War would be $686 billion. The cost of the current Iraq war up to last June was $648 billion, while the adjusted cost for Afghanistan to that point was $171 billion.

The total cost of the American Revolution was a relatively inexpensive $1.8 billion.

“World War II was financed by savings, the American people’s savings, when Americans bought war bonds,” said Olivier Garret, CEO of Casey Research, who analyzed the value of the bailout compared to the major U.S. wars and other major historical government expenses. “Today, families are in debt and government is in debt.”

A Bianco Research report cited in Politico puts the number for the total value of bailouts at $8.7 trillion and also affirms the value to be higher than the cost of all American wars and historic initiatives. A spokesman with Bianco Research could not be reached for comment as this story went to press.

The bailouts, led by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, were taken as emergency actions to keep U.S. companies from going under and to prevent a total financial markets meltdown in the United States. Similar bailouts were issued in other countries to address the global financial crisis.

The Bush administration is mulling whether to use some of the $700 billion in TARP funds approved by Congress to bailout the financial industry to bailout U.S. automakers.

The bailouts could put U.S. taxpayers in a tough spot in the future, said Pete Sepp, spokesman for the National Taxpayers Union.

“I’m assuming the figures do not include the Cold War defense expenditures, which would probably amount to several trillion on their own,” Sepp told CNSNews.com. “In any case, it’s a stark illustration of just how quickly the federal government has gotten into a huge financial hole and dragged taxpayers into it in the process.”

“We can only hope and pray that many of these liabilities and guarantees and commitments the government has made will not have to be made good on,” Sepp said. “If we were to be responsible for paying out all of these obligations, even in the period of one or two years, it would be financially disastrous to the government’s credit rating and our own as taxpayers.”

Garret pointed to the cost that will be paid by Americans in the future. “Future generations of Americans are going to continue to finance the enormous amount of debt,” he said.

To those taxpayers left to pay this and the planned $850 billion-plus that will come behind it in the next administration, I say good luck to you.

[aznyron]

WBU I just want to say when GWB took office we had a surplus of money I also understand we did not owe any money other than the FICA program which has been rob over the years from both R & D Administration
I don't know how this happened but my biased opinion put the blame on GWB door step and I also want to say I support the UAW decision in standing firm and refusing to cut any pay or benefits. It also appears to
me the Republicans who refused to give the auto makers a loan base there vote firmly on the UAW give back. so now they want to punish them by voting NO. So now who is going to pay for this bail out ?
it look to me every one is going to suffer but the poor will hurt the most because they have the least
it also seem to me every time we have a Republican in the W/H and divided congress the country go in the toilet

[banpaeng]

I just hope that the Automakers do have to go through bankruptcy and not a bailout with taxpayers money. I also think if the UAW is not willing to help with a pay cut, then my money need not be wasted either as a taxpayer.

It just don't make since to me that the companies are closing shops all over the country and the UAW says go ahead. Really sounds like good management.

By the way this is not political, it is just plain hard headed. Better to shut down a company and loose my job than work for a plan to keep it running.

Oh well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[aznyron]

Ban it not the companies asking the UAW to take cuts it the Republicans in the Senate asking why are they getting involved in labor management contracts that are now sealed it none of there business it just another reason to bust unions read Michael Moore letter

[laphanphon]

sad part is, it appears the figures have been adjusted for inflation, that's a lot of zeros. and the bush cronies and friends of are still pocketing more than ever spent on wars. yep, that's who's being bailed out. hate to pass up a good bonus, though discounted this year, makes good press, wonder what other incentives were provided that weren't called bonuses.

and the sheep say nothing..............................no tax protest, no one day work moratorium. even the dopers thought of that one during vietnam war.................any brains out there anymore. had million man march on washington to inspire men to take responsibility for themselves few years back, how about a million person blockade of the presidential parade route, shut down the inauguration celebration with giant protest/sit in of all of washington dc main road for the day.....................something, anything, instead of buying more KY with a smile.

up the revolution, power to the people, where's john lennon and bob marley when you need them. michael moore the only one with balls anymore. waiting for him to get bumped off.

[banpaeng]

Mr. Moore needs to go to the outback of Laos and see if he can find the alien that landed on the Plane of Jars. Oh yea that was a conspiracy by the Russians.

[aznyron]

Ban sorry I missed that one so I don't know what your talking about

[banpaeng]

Ron, sorry you don't get it however not all post are directed at you and this one was not. It is just a stated opinion and nothing more.

[Pakawala]

All agree, there's a problem in the US auto industry and the auto makers are loosing money... FAST. They go to Congress with hat in hand and ask for money to help them with THEIR problem. Their problem is also the UAW's problem so WHY DOESN'T THE UAW FEEL THEY SHOULD HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM?

I don't understand why they should pay UAW nut and bolt twisters $57 to $70 per hour to do their job while the same qualified nut and bolt twisters at Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc. get half that much and produce an excellent automobile which is also made in America.

If the UAW doesn't want to help save their job, TOUGH ! They don't deserve MY TAX MONEY.

[aznyron]

Pak you seem to forget they have a contract and it does not run out until 2011 that when they will make there concessions not before it doesn't seem to bother you when the CEO run off with your tax dollars
or paid millions a year for putting the corporations in the red zone and they still get there bonus money
and outrages pay Just remember the President get 400K a year no one CEO should be paid more than the President of the USA if so tax him at a rate of 90% and you complain about wrench turner making 50 bucks a hour trade shoes and talk to me be on the receiving end of the 50 bucks a hour see how fast you want to give it up and your bennies as well I also want to say the company can get along with out the CEO he does nothing any way it the men who turn the wrench that make the company tick if the engineers design a good car then they will not have problems. make the car that meets cafe standards and there sales will go up

[douglas]

Hi,
What bailout was paid to the British forces whom the USA killed, more British men were killed in the Iraq war by them than by the enemy, a relative of mine was one. The pilot that did it boasted about it on his radio, which was recorded, and it was sickening to listen to, was not aware they were friendly forces even though they had proper marking on the sides and top of there transport. To much John W. and gung hoe and flying to high, frightened of low level? I do not usually get it up about a topic but the USAAF is bottom of my list of being nice.
Cheers Doug

[aznyron]

Doug as American let me offer you my condolence for the loss of your family member in a war that should not have been waged I do want to say when you put young men & women in harms way unfortunate things happen like some one getting killed from friendly fire I am also sorry to hear that the American pilot who was responsible for it brag about it I am sure he does not represent the United States Air Force he is just one idiot if he is guilty of bragging

[banpaeng]

To get back on topic, Bush caved in and gave the folks a loan. That is a terrible waste of taxpayers money.

It was explained to me a long time ago while in High school that the collapse of a democratic society will happen when the people find out they can vote themselves money. It is going at a rapid speed now. It will only be a short time before another lawyer will file suit on behalf of all businesses in the US for a loan and we have a precedent set, called vote buying.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/aaclcgsegmjw

[aznyron]

so what is the answer Ban ? if you don't agree in giving the money. who should make the sacrifice the UAW
I don't think so the CEO of the companies they are only interested in getting there $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
bankrupt the company maybe that a good option I don't know but making them retool the company sounds fair to me which is what GWB said they have to do if they want the loan Now I do want to express some thing I am no fan of GWB and you know it but on this one I agree with him let me hear your opinion
Merry Christmas

[WBU ALUM]

This owner of a machinery factory in Ohio gets it.

In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me.

You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once great nation to keep "living the dream"…

The dream is over!

The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the worlds most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities…and that still the masses will line up to buy our products.

Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEM's and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting.

Mr Clark, the president of General Motors, states:

There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not ...

You're right – it's not JUST management…how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag ass…so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time…for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week.

How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics ... for putting out too many parts on a shift ... and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you really not know about this stuff?!?

How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: over the last few years ... we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors.

What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them?

The K car vs. the Accord?
The Pinto vs. the Civic?!?
Do I need to go on?

We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit.

I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money". Yes, he said, this would cause short term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day ... and something else would happen…where there had been greedy and sloppy banks new efficient ones would pop up ... that is how a free market system works ... it does work ... if we would let it work ...

But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work – that we need the government to step in and "save us" ... save us, hell – we're nationalizing…and unfortunately too many of this once fine nations citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening ... but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams ... yeah – THAT'S important ...

Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country? ...

How can that be???

Let's see ...

Fuel efficient ...

Listening to customers ...

Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul ...

Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago. Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans ...

Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy" ...

Efficient front and back offices ...

Non union environment ...

Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know in their hearts. I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into – my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) – I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through.

Radical concept, huh ...

Am I there for them in the wings? Of course – but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults. I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government.

Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. Bad news people – it's coming whether we like it or not. The newly elected Messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied ... "we might not do it in a year ... or in four ..." where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNING for the office?

Stop trying to put off the inevitable ...

That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000 ...

People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health care benefits ...

That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year ...

We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe ...

That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home ...

Let the market correct itself people – it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation that appreciates what is has ... and doesn't live beyond its means ... and gets back to basics ... and redevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world ... and probably turns back to God.

Sorry – don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news."

Any president lending money or giving money to the automakers is really giving it to the unions. There's no other way to slice that cheese.

the collapse of a democratic society will happen when the people find out they can vote themselves money. It is going at a rapid speed now.

Yes, this says it all, and it is why there has been such a concerted effort on the part of politicians to create class warfare and welfare. When those NOT paying taxes get to a percentage where they can overwhelm those who do (we're almost there now), it will all be over. Those not paying into the system will forever vote for the politicians promising everything and overtaxing the productive members who pay into the system. And then the productive members will begin to do whatever they can to cheat on their taxes, hide their revenues or just give up and become mediocre like the rest of the unproductive ones. Then there won't be enough tax revenue to pay for it all.

[banpaeng]

An answer to Ron. I will use what you said..

I am having a heart problem that needs surgery. I am wheeled into the Operating room and all the technicians are standing around waiting on the surgeon who is out playing golf. Seems we got rid of the CEO' so no boss to make us do our job until we get good and ready. Besides the surgeon know he has the nuts and bolts technicians around who surely can do most if not all the work by themselves. They need no guidance. By the way the technicians are a bit miffed as they have been ask to give back a bit of salary but have refused till after 2011 when the next contract comes up.

Now as nothing is happening I die. (some might like that ) No one is at fault because no one is in charge, surely the technicians are not at fault as they were just turning nuts and bolts and really did not care about the patient or hospital and the surgeon has no one to answer to.

No one contributed to my death and no one is to blame. Guess next time I will go to the Honda hospital for my problems. Oh yea I am dead!!!

It is called teamwork or command and control at the least. Without either, you will die. Goodbye big three.

[aznyron]

I guess it the 9 to 5 worker fault that we have to bail out all these rich corporations because of unions who only make up about 5 % of the nations work force the days of the strong union is gone long gone it was busted up under the great Republican messiah Ronald Wilson Reagan. I guess I was not worth 25 bucks a hour when I was climbing steel 20 stories in the air to put up scaffolds for the other trades to work or building forms & setting them at the edge of 20 story building for concrete pours I guess when we get hurt and can not work for months at a time it just to bad sell every thing you got you lazy good for nothing bum Just remember this the hi-low driver making 85K a year must be worth it since he is not a union worker maybe he boss nephew and pays him that amount because he does not want his sister calling him up and accusing him of taking advantage of her son get real no hi-low driver makes that kind of money not even Joe the Plumber it very easy to point fingers at those who are at the bottom trying to make a decent buck as for the couple making 50K a year between them living in a house that cost them 500K another B/S story if getting a mortgage was that easy I would own have a Mohave Valley AZ Now I see you back to those who do not pay taxes but have a job or on welfare some how it only the little people who don't pay taxes or did you forget the helmsley women said only the little people pay taxes and she was a billionaire and she was right on target do you think your chump change is enough support a welfare family ? and speaking of welfare who are these people they are single mothers with children who father flew the coop or are disabled to hold a job. sorry that letter is so full of B/S it smells al the way to my room

[WBU ALUM]

I guess it the 9 to 5 worker fault that we have to bail out all these rich corporations because of unions who only make up about 5 % of the nations work force

The examples of abuse within the UAW are well documented.

No one in America is against an honest day's wage for an honest day's work. =D>

[TJ]

"You would not suggest giving a teen who has just maxed out their first credit card more credit so they could somehow spend their way out of the financial hole they have made, nor will this approach work for a business or a nation. The delusion and mysticism that is called upon by the business and economic establishment have obscured the fact that the economic realities of your own homes are not fundamentally different from those of a business or nation. If you are unable to pay your debts, you are insolvent. In some cases, credit can help you bridge a "low" time. If, however, this credit only increases debt you still cannot afford, then the inevitable has merely been postponed.

"As long as our central government has the ability to dole out these favors, there will be special interests lining up to receive them."The same mistakes that were made during the Great Depression are being made now. The call to prop up prices will grow to a din as the self-interests of businesses push themselves on the Federal Reserve and Treasury. This desire for price controls is no different from the mercantilist policies of colonial Britain, which forced the British populace to pay the higher prices of British producers, to the boon of the businesses and the pain of the populace. Talk of today's "illiquid" assets is just a resistance by the owners of those assets to sell them at the market-clearing price. I assure you, I'll buy a mortgage for one dollar!

The business and economics establishment will soon call for a new New Deal, and all the socialist policies of FDR will be dusted off and respun to the unwitting public, and the years that follow will be ones of pain, high prices, and a real fall in the standard of living.

As long as our central government has the ability to dole out these favors, there will be special interests lining up to receive them."
http://mises.org/story/3249

[BKKSTAN]

=D> =D> Nanny nanny,please make the pain go away!I just don't think I should work so hard,after all,there are alot of people that make much much more money than me and they don't have to work so hard!

Why can't we just love each other?Why do we have to work so hard?Why can't everybody have the same ''things''?What is the matter with our gov't?