UK Government plans travel database

[arjay]

From the BBC News:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7877182.stm

Government plans travel database

The (UK) government is compiling a database to track and store the international travel records of millions of Britons.

Computerised records of all 250 million journeys made by individuals in and out of the UK each year will be kept for up to 10 years.

The government says the database is essential in the fight against crime, illegal immigration and terrorism.

But opposition MPs and privacy campaigners fear it is a significant step towards a surveillance society.

The intelligence centre will store names, addresses, telephone numbers, seat reservations, travel itineraries and credit card details of travellers.

Big Brother

Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling said: "The government seems to be building databases to track more and more of our lives.

"The justification is always about security or personal protection. But the truth is that we have a government that just can't be trusted over these highly sensitive issues. We must not allow ourselves to become a Big Brother society."

A spokesman for campaign group NO2ID said: "When your travel plans, who you are travelling with, where you are going to and when are being recorded you have to ask yourself just how free is this country?"

The e-Borders scheme covers flights, ferries and rail journeys and the Home Office says similar schemes run in other countries including the US, Canada, Spain and Australia.

Minister of State for borders and immigration Phil Woolas said the government was determined to ensure the UK's border remained one of the toughest in the world.

"Our hi-tech electronic borders system will allow us to count all passengers in and out of the UK and [it] targets those who aren't willing to play by our rules," he said.

"Already e-Borders has screened over 75 million passengers against immigration, customs and police watch-lists, leading to over 2,700 arrests for crimes such as murder, rape and assault."

[BobHelm]

Already e-Borders has screened over 75 million passengers against immigration, customs and police watch-lists, leading to over 2,700 arrests for crimes such as murder, rape and assault

Yes, obviously a good use of resources - this is 0.0036% capture rate. What about the honest 99.9964% of the population that are having personal records kept for the next 10 years????? How many of these 2,700 arrests were due to historical data rather than just "at the moment" checking.
What is this information going to be used for in the future & who knows?? Plus we all know how efficient (NOT!!) UK Government departments are about keeping personal private information private...
Big brother just one more step nearer.

[arjay]

Yes Bob, they will be able to pick up that you were warned for speeding on your moped in 1955. I wonder, does that mean they will pull you in at the airport for a grilling and full body search?

Be warned big brother is checking up. :-"

It might help them pick up when paedo's are travelling overseas.

[747man]

Already e-Borders has screened over 75 million passengers against immigration, customs and police watch-lists, leading to over 2,700 arrests for crimes such as murder, rape and assault

Yes, obviously a good use of resources - this is 0.0036% capture rate. What about the honest 99.9964% of the population that are having personal records kept for the next 10 years????? How many of these 2,700 arrests were due to historical data rather than just "at the moment" checking.
What is this information going to be used for in the future & who knows?? Plus we all know how efficient (NOT!!) UK Government departments are about keeping personal private information private...
Big brother just one more step nearer.

Bob, DONT worry Some Forgetful Idiot will leave the CD on a Train Or Bus on their way home

[arjay]

Bob, DONT worry Some Forgetful Idiot will leave the CD on a Train Or Bus on their way home

=D> =D> =D>

[747man]

Yes Bob, they will be able to pick up that you were warned for speeding on your moped in 1955. I wonder, does that mean they will pull you in at the airport for a grilling and full body search?

Be warned big brother is checking up. :-"

It might help them pick up when paedo's are travelling overseas.

Arjay,It will soon become that they will know your going to.... BEFORE you actually do it......

[RALPHCUSENS]

More importantly, it will also show which people that are in receipt of UK State Pensions, and are getting the annual cost of living increases, and have not declared they are living abroad.

Could prove expensive for some!!!

[Prenders88]

I can think of another Ralph.
People who still keep their UK drivers licence valid, by using a family or friends address.

[bigwavedave]

Absolutely none of their business.... they seem to forget they are employees of us and not the gistapo!!!

In the context of travelling that is , and they tried the old chestnut of finding child molestors etc with the yank who was deported from here and found innocent... all that time and effort and the guy was innocent of the charge!!!!

And were all suffering for it now, with our visa troubles, or the ones that are on tourist visa's etc

[stattointhailand]

Absolutely none of their business.... they seem to forget they are employees of us and not the gistapo!!!

did you mean git stapo?

[westerby]

Plus we all know how efficient (NOT!!) UK Government departments are about keeping personal private information private...
Big brother just one more step nearer.

These Labour Party clowns and their compliant civil service are always coming up with grand schemes that never come to anything. Such a database would involve merging various agency data so that evidence could be collated to track the nation's citizens. You would have to secure stakeholder agreement on the way forward as well as funding, not to mention time. Think about the NHS database that was supposed to track a patient over various agencies, departments and geographic locations, we haven't seen anything of that yet. And what about the identity card fiasco? We're still not there.
The UK can't even effectively secure its borders from illegal immigrants let alone track its own citizens. More 'pie in the sky' Labour whiff whaff.

Edit: Here's a couple of examples from the past...

Whatever happened to the drugs Czar that was supposed to tackle the British drug culture in 1997 - remember Keith Helliwell?

Whatever happened to John Prescott's transport plan to take more cars off the road and improve public transport?

One final thought, there's simply no money to fund these schemes anymore.

[747man]

I can think of another Ralph.
People who still keep their UK drivers licence valid, by using a family or friends address.

Oooooooooo !!! Penders !!!

[BobHelm]

Minister of State for borders and immigration Phil Woolas said the government was determined to ensure the UK's border remained one of the toughest in the world.

"Our hi-tech electronic borders system will allow us to count all passengers in and out of the UK and [it] targets those who aren't willing to play by our rules," he said.

"Already e-Borders has screened over 75 million passengers against immigration, customs and police watch-lists, leading to over 2,700 arrests for crimes such as murder, rape and assault."

I have scanned the web for more details as to the thoughts behind the logic of the need for this database & have found none. So I can only assume this is the sum total of the Governments' argument.
I have already discussed the later part (the "****" isssue if you like) & keeping data for 10 years will not help this one iota.
How will a database help protect the borders??? It may identify "over stayers" but someone still has to physically find them & then try to deport them!!
How will it target those who those who don't play by the rules - they are not going through a recognised immigration check point anyway.

It is all a complete nonsense with no logical justification at all. Just because something can be done doesn't necessarily make it a good idea to do it.

Westerby, the NHS database is still under construction. It has cost millions of pounds and is over budget & the original contract was "out sourced" to a foreign company. My understanding is that much of the actual work is now being done in India.

[konstabel els]

The Government is also now considering a recommendation by some overpaid dick called Turner - which proposes to limit the amount of flights any individual can take out of the U.K. per year -to reduce carbon whatever they call it, please bear in mind - Brown, Straw, mandelson, Hain are all former members of the communist party - in there Sixties student phase of course.

[jackspratt]

The Government is also now considering a recommendation by some overpaid dick called Turner - which proposes to limit the amount of flights any individual can take out of the U.K. per year -to reduce carbon whatever they call it, please bear in mind - Brown, Straw, mandelson, Hain are all former members of the communist party - in there Sixties student phase of course.

konstabel - if you are going to quote something as a fact, hopefully you can back it up with some verifiable evidence.

For example, "Brown............ Hain are former members of the communist party" - evidence please. =D>

[westerby]

Westerby, the NHS database is still under construction. It has cost millions of pounds and is over budget & the original contract was "out sourced" to a foreign company. My understanding is that much of the actual work is now being done in India.

http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/Fuji ... e--/110822

This makes interesting reading, Bob.

[izzix]

Police at Heathrow are already doing stop and search on innocent male travellers . last time i went thru they were dishing out stop and search yellow forms and doing checks on the police national computer for outstanding criminal convictions and travel restrictions . This was on a Ava air flight .
everyone is a potential Gary Glitter or shoe bomber now in the UK communist state .

[konstabel els]

The Government is also now considering a recommendation by some overpaid dick called Turner - which proposes to limit the amount of flights any individual can take out of the U.K. per year -to reduce carbon whatever they call it, please bear in mind - Brown, Straw, mandelson, Hain are all former members of the communist party - in there Sixties student phase of course.

konstabel - if you are going to quote something as a fact, hopefully you can back it up with some verifiable evidence.

For example, "Brown............ Hain are former members of the communist party" - evidence please. =D>

ok- for starters - Jack straw - prominent labour member and former home secretary - a former member of' broad left'- a socialist and communist alliance, peter mandelson - now government minister ( removed twice from office for misconduct ) a former member -'communist Youth' - whilst going to public school -
the list goes on and on - but this is something us Brits already know -
satisfied Trotsky? Smash the Reds!!

[westerby]

What about Gordon Brown and Peter Hain then?

[konstabel els]

What about Gordon Brown and Peter Hain then?

westerby , finding there 'socialist' backgrounds is relatively easy - do it yourself - not wasting my day researching a bunch of scummy reds, sooner have a beer

regards

konstabel