Blighty and the UKIP Revolution

[Earnest]

There's a feature in Paul Dacre's newspaper on Nigel Farage and the UKIP revolution in GB. Having thrown a hand grenade into the political status quo post Thursday's council elections, UKIP is poised to make huge gains tonight in the EU elections, apparently wiping out the wishy washy Liberal Democrats.

Now then, Farage has compared the fortunes of UKIP to what happened in Canada two decades ago when the Reform Party wiped out the Conservatives. The cheeky blighter also says he will only retire from politics once the UK has left the EU. What makes me laugh is the fact that the main parties still don't take him seriously and consequently, that of the opinions of a sizeable wedge of the electorate. I have a feeling there will be some more political earthquakes after the EU results tonight.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Yes, and the Greek cook at the high school has indicated that the Golden Dawn is hoping to do the same in Greece.

The Canadian Reform Party was mostly disgruntled former Social Credit people in the Province of Alberta who did not like the 'Progressive' part of the Progressive Conservative Party. They were not fascist or did not have extreme views although many of them were fundamentalist Christians.

Their leader, Preston Manning, is now a well-known and informed political pundit on tv.

[Earnest]

They were accused of being oddball and racist too, weren't they? When, in fact, they weren't. I was reading that it started with just one MP elected in 1989 to be followed at the next election by a trouncing of the Progressive Conservatives. That, apparently, let the Lib Dems in to govern. Is that right?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Not quite. Yes, the press turned it on about racism and so on. The current Prime Minister, Harper, was also tainted with this brush, but was able to defeat the Liberals and is still doing well although the opposition and the press are always warning about his 'hidden agenda', which is supposed to include re-opening the abortion debate, coming down hard on illegal immigrants, and restricting immigration from non-white countries.

The Reform Party revolution did help the Liberal Party destroy the Progressive Conservatives in the election at that time. The Party (PC) have returned to the name, Conservative Party.

I was thinking of Stockwell Day, not Preston Manning, as the political pundit nowadays although Mr. Manning is also called on at times to provide useful opinions.

[Earnest]

It's interesting how newspapers here are drawing parallels with Canada and the Reform Party. They did the same a few years ago when discussing the austerity programme noting how Canada had previously pursued the same economic objectives so placing them in an enviable position when the rest of the western world went into recession. Maybe that's why the Bank of England has a Canadian governor.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Well, we are the First Dominion after all.

Usually we look to policies in the United Kingdom and how they are accepted and performing before initiating them here. But, Mark Carney looked after Canadian banking very well and now heads the Bank of England.

Anyway, it is interesting that England is looking across the pond at us for a possible answer/solution to some of the problems/institutions that exist there. I like that. 55+

[Earnest]

I'm glad UKIP are in the hen coop, far too many politicians have been getting arrogant over the years. It's about time the British electorate put the frighteners on them.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Be careful about what you wish for in that regard. This is how Rob Ford got elected Mayor of Toronto. The voters were sick and tired of the traditional politicians ignoring them and voted for the guy with the common touch who was not one of arrogant elites.

[Earnest]

There'd be never a dull moment, though.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

555+

[BobHelm]

The early European election results suggest that this is not just a UK phenomena.
It would appear that there is a bit of an anti-EU feeling spreading right across Europe.
Sadly, for most countries, this had meant a resurgence in the far right wing of the political spectrum.

It is possibly understandable given the issues that are currently racking Europe. Issues that the current make up of the EU have seemed reluctant, or impotent, to tackle.
Whatever is the way forward for Europe I don't, personally, feel that policies of hatred & exclusions represented by the Far Right have anything to offer in a positive way..

[socksy]

I'm glad UKIP are in the hen coop, far too many politicians have been getting arrogant over the years. It's about time the British electorate put the frighteners on them.

A right result - bring it on. Finally to public are beginning to realise what state of s**te the Country is in.

[BobHelm]

I would not disagree at the despairing economic state of the UK & the responsibility that mainstream politicians must bear for that sorry state of affairs.

However, it does not make me any happier that people are voting for a lunatic fringe party though.

If their economic policy of removal from the EU was to bear fruit then the current economic woes would soon start to look like an idyllic bliss. The immigration issues would certainly disappear overnight as no one would wish to voluntarily go to the economic wasteland that remained.

It is a case of the cure being far worse than the actual disease & probably resulting in the patients demise...

[GT93]

I think it's probably quite common in desperate times for the lunatic fringes to become more attractive to voters.

NZ is an interesting contrast on immigration. Immigration is similarly very high and for us increasingly Asian. But it's controlled by NZ government policy because of our geography and because we're not subject to immigration laws imposed by an international treaty. So it's not really an issue. The immigrants eventually find jobs and work hard and many bring money into the country as they arrive. I'd describe immigration as a minor issue here even though the number of immigrants expected this year equals about 1% of our population.

Australia and NZ were the same as what I understand was written about Canada above and ran government budget surpluses in the boom times and paid down government debt to low levels. So the level of government debt isn't an issue here although politicians being politicians always kick this one around. Our government debt as a % of GDP might be about 1/4 of the UK's. It's kind of basic to run government surpluses in boom times and completely moronic not to do this. I think the British have been badly let down by the UK's economic management for over a decade. It's a bit of a puzzle for a country that's supposed to be "brainy".

[Earnest]

However, it does not make me any happier that people are voting for a lunatic fringe party though.

You mean UKIP? Lunatic, quite probably but I wouldn't say fringe because they are attracting lots of attention from an electorate that agrees with what they advocate. Their policies are becoming mainstream in UK and the pro-European stance is becoming fringe, which is why the Lib Dems did badly. The arrogance of the main parties and their inability to listen has led to UKIP coming out on top.

[BobHelm]

No Earnest.
Their ability to appeal to the baser instinct of man is why they are gathering support.
An easy fix answer that requires no effort by the masses rather than something more complex & intellectually challenging that might actually work if effort was used.

Sadly it is all part of the 'Americanisation' of UK politics.
Short punchy lines that mean absolutely nothing when you examine them & are based purely on wishful thinking with zero substance.
Bit like 'Change' from Obama or 'Support the Constitution' from the other side of the tracks.
Meaningless buzz words....

[Earnest]

And here we disagree, Bob.

I would argue the valueless sound bites come from Labour and the Conservatives, who are influenced by US politics - not UKIP. Look who Labour have taken on from Obama's team to win the next election.

[BobHelm]

I never suggested that it hadn't infiltrated the other parties Earnest, rather the opposite.

However UKIP are running on the sole concept that the UK should withdraw from the EU.

For all its many failings that is not a policy that can be pursued without a huge negative economic impact on the UK.
It is, frankly, a policy that only a lunatic would pursue if they were in possession of only a modicum of the 'balanced data' available.
It would leave the UK as a small isolated Island off the coast of one of the major economic zones. Unloved, unwanted & with zero appeal to any international company unless it tried to attract the sort of finance trade even the Swiss & St. Lucia now refuse to take.
It would still need to import just about anything it needed for day to day life but would have lost the small advantages that it has with its' export customers.
Over 50% of goods exported from the UK go to Germany. Can someone explain to me WHY Germany would still be willing to trade with a non-EU UK. The simplicity that now exists to move goods from the UK to Germany would disappear overnight...

The supposed believe of UKIP that it can remove the UK from the EU & only the 'costs' associated with membership disappear is just idiotic...Any benefits (& there are many) go as well..
The UK needs to trade to survive as (unlike Canada & Australasia) it has nothing in the way of mineral resources or vast areas of land to mechanically farm.

[Earnest]

Again, we differ.

I would see UK leaving the EU as an opportunity not a problem. Even more so if we lost Scotland later on this year. 50% of our exports don't have to go into Europe, there are other markets. Furthermore, I see Europe in a larger context as the model is federalist and socialist squeezing our sovereignty (or what's left of it). I'd rather be a small and independent country than part of a larger organisation. I think quite a few Brits think like me.

[BobHelm]

If there were other markets then UK companies would be exploiting them. They are not there...
Leaving the EU would be a death nell to whatever was left of the UK.

Many of the things that are blamed on the Big Brother of the EU would have been introduced into the UK if they were members or not. They will not now be removed if the UK leaves. Ask Australians if their country has changed in the last 50 years. The answer will be yes & they were not in the EU...

& be prepared for the exit of EUers who actually were working & the re influx of all those pensioners who were living on the Spanish coasts...