Gorbachev

[mak]

Mikhail Gorbachev, Soviet president who took down the Iron Curtain, dies.
Mikhail Gorbachev dead at 91: Final leader of the Soviet Union who helped end the Cold War and bring down the Iron Curtain but then saw his own superpower crumble dies in hospital.

[Doodoo]

A great Leader, one who worked towards peace amongst the nations. All ruined now by one man , Putin
Shameful indeed

[Whistler]

https://youtu.be/hZgmcm7nLjE

Gorby in the naked gun

[FrazeeDK]

Perestroika, Glastnost.. Yes, he moderated things politically in an attempt to save the Communist Party and its rule of the Soviet Union. That failed. But, for all the pundits praising Gorbachev, he was no clean handed man.. Plenty of blood under his nails over the years. And yet. Gorbachev did more than want to retain the central role of the communist party and preserve the 20th century Russian empire embodied by the territorial expansion and subjugation of other nations under Lenin and Stalin. He repeatedly authorized deadly force to kill civilians in the non-Russian captive nations which he and the Soviet Politburo presumed to rule by fiat from Moscow. Those actions perversely hastened the breakup of the Soviet empire he sought to preserve, presaging the dynamic currently in play with the Kremlin’s current war in Ukraine, and are also an indelible part of his legacy.
The list of bloody, murderous actions on Gorbachev’s watch which became touchstone moments in national consciousness building in the affected countries includes:
—Kazakhstan: the “Jeltoqsan,” December 1986, 168-200 civilians killed, 200+ injured.
—Georgia: The “Tbilisi massacre” of April 9, 1989; (at least) 21 killed, hundreds injured.
—Azerbaijan: Baku’s “Black Saturday’ or ‘January Massacre,’ January 19, 1990; (at least) 147 killed, 800+ injured.
—Lithuania: Vilnius’ “Bloody Sunday, January 13, 1991, 14 killed, 100+ injured.
—Latvia: “The Barricades,” January 20, 1991, 6 killed. And last but not least,
—Ukraine: Chornobyl, April 1986, the first and greatest crime of the Gorbachev era, and of Gorbachev himself.

[Doodoo]

Frazee
Give me a break
"The list of bloody, murderous actions on Gorbachev’s watch which became touchstone moments in national consciousness building in the affected countries includes:
—Kazakhstan: the “Jeltoqsan,” December 1986, 168-200 civilians killed, 200+ injured.
—Georgia: The “Tbilisi massacre” of April 9, 1989; (at least) 21 killed, hundreds injured.
—Azerbaijan: Baku’s “Black Saturday’ or ‘January Massacre,’ January 19, 1990; (at least) 147 killed, 800+ injured.
—Lithuania: Vilnius’ “Bloody Sunday, January 13, 1991, 14 killed, 100+ injured.
—Latvia: “The Barricades,” January 20, 1991, 6 killed. And last but not least,"

Total 388 people killed by the beastly Gorbachev SHT more people killed on Thai roads each year, "Over 2,000 killed and 130,000 injured on Thailand’s roads in 2021 and then the USA "20,726 The number of gun deaths, excluding suicides, so far in 2021.", and so on, excluding wars being found around the world
Get real

[parrot]

I think Frazee is just trying to paint a complete picture......as does George Will in https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... orge-will/

It's always good to know the rest of the story.

[Doodoo]

Lets let Frazee answer for himself and see what he has to say

[FrazeeDK]

didn't put the rest where Gorby still had the Gulag with political prisoners. He was no Winnie the Pooh Bear with a map on his head.. He was a hard nosed realist, still a Commie and trying to save a failing regime any way he could.. He had few other options with his economy collapsing the and corrupt control of the Kremlin weakening... He most assuredly was not and is not Saint Gorby.. AS mentioned just trying to show the other side of the coin from the platitudes heaped uon him in death.

[Doodoo]

I dont think anyone can name a country or Leader that is all peaches and cream. They all have dark closets where they hide skeletons

[tamada]

I dont think anyone can name a country or Leader that is all peaches and cream. They all have dark closets where they hide skeletons

Gorbachev was no great hero. Even his homeland didn't rate him up their with their despotic greats. He inherited a communist system in terminal decline and then a couple of really bad agricultural seasons that among other things, crashed their wheat exports. Along with Ronald Reagan, who benefited from their mutually allocated space in history, he oversaw the demise of the Soviet Union but not because he particularly wanted to.

[Khun Paul]

Lets be brutally honest ever since the ending of WW11, Russia has been a thorn in the side of Western Democracies in one way or the other . The Cold War, also watched with interest by China who learnt softly softly will get far more as we see.
The Gulags where it is known tens of thousands have died and still are .
Governmental crackdown on various countries in its old sphere of influence .

No Russia was and still is NOT a peaceful free country to live in and its leaders at any-time knew full well what was happening, under Gorby with the complete control the Kremlin had, he knew 100% what was happening .

To paint anything other than that is being polite in his death as one does to anyone, speak good not bad, but we all know the truth

[Doodoo]

KP
We all know the truth about the USA regime also Prisons in Cuba , no trials , waterboarding, Peru, Columbia Cuba etc all truly nations that torture , no trials , mass arrests NO COUNTRY holds a truly great record. Canada allowing indigenous people to be slain at Native Schools, Catholic Church and their involved for centuries

[Khun Paul]

KP
We all know the truth about the USA regime also Prisons in Cuba , no trials , waterboarding, Peru, Columbia Cuba etc all truly nations that torture , no trials , mass arrests NO COUNTRY holds a truly great record. Canada allowing indigenous people to be slain at Native Schools, Catholic Church and their involved for centuries

As this post was about Gorby, please explain what the hell the USA and Canada has to do with him, answers please on the back of a stamp !!

[Doodoo]

Then explain what Gorby had to do with WW2
What he has to do with Golags still being run today
Practice what one preaches

[Khun Paul]

Then explain what Gorby had to do with WW2
What he has to do with Golags still being run today
Practice what one preaches

II really think you need a History lesson dear boy one that encompasses everything from Russian revolution to present day to even begin to understand, plus some reading lessons so you can understand the written word .
I said AFTER WW11 or did that confuse you ...lol

[tamada]

Then explain what Gorby had to do with WW2
What he has to do with Golags still being run today
Practice what one preaches

One could also ask what this fanciful "his legacy ruined by Putin" in your Gorby love fest post has to do with anything?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/who-li ... pizza-hut/

However, if you really think he was all that to all free men and women everywhere, there's this opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ar-ukraine

[Doodoo]

Amazing how when I ask another contributor a question , example in this case Khun Paul you seem to always pop up.
In my day as I am certain you had the same from your Parents "Children are supposed to be seen and not heard"

[Earnest]

Leave it, DooDoo, he ain't wurf it!

[mak]

Raisa's gravesite in the Novodevichy Cemetery, Moscow.
The funeral.
Gorbachev funeral: Mourners gather in 'silent protest against Kremlin' but no sign of Putin.
Hungary's Viktor Orban was the highest profile leader to be attending the ceremony, with Gorbachev denied a state funeral.
Gorbachev was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1990 ‘for the leading role he played in the radical changes in East-West relations’.
The British, US and German ambassadors were also in attendance.
His daughter Irina and his two granddaughters sat beside the coffin.

[mak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgm14D1jHUw