Crypto-currencies: The future is now

[KHONDAHM]

Note: Crypto-currencies are not legal in Thailand. In all their utter brilliance, the authorities here are the only ones in the world who have banned them. This thread's purpose is to discuss them (unless that violates forum rules?).

That said, you can buy/sell them freely over the internet at reputable exchanges or contact one of the several people who will trade with you in-person (not me, btw). I can recommend Coinbase, Bitstamp, and BTC-e, but expect several days before your funds are made available to you. Likewise, expect delays withdrawing.

I have done some extensive research since hearing about them from Bumper mid-August. My initial thought was "WOW" and I began looking into the best way to get involved. I'll spare a rather long novella and just say one should buy rather than mine coins. At the time, BTC was at $120, dropped down to $70 after a high-profile commerce site closed, and then recovered and shot to the moon since then. Today, BTC is at $1,100+ as I type this. It has a long, long way up to go yet from here. The supply is hard-capped and the demand and rate of adoption is incredible.

These currencies (BTC and LTC, primarily) will - in my lifetime - make obsolete: Almost the entire global banking infrastructure, bankers, central banks, PayPal, Western Union, Forex, all fiat currencies, etc. It really is that revolutionary (!). It sounds kookie to the layman who does not know or understand the how and why, so please do educate yourselves because it is absolutely the future and will affect your life as much as the microchip, the wheel, or air travel.

Here are some primer sites:

What is BitCoin
www.bitcoin.org

Real news about BitCoin happenings/developments/integration/ecosystem
www.coindesk.com

Chatter
www.bitcointalk.org

I am well-informed and happy to discuss the subject with anyone who is interested.

[maaka]

dont know much about it, but heard of a fella in USA now searching thru his local landfill site for his disgarded hard drive, cause it has bitcoin on it, that he bought years ago when they werent worth doddley, but now due to todays prices his load is now worth $8 million....I never throw anything out..

[leterry60614]

Great concept and I agree with the huge potential. Bitcoin seems to be the most popular but there are others. Although it's possible that a handful survive the next few years, which one do you invest in?

[Macca]

The guy who lost his hard drive containing the details for his bit coins is still frantically searching throw his local rubbish sight.
Could think of nice things to be doing at the end of November in cold and wet Wales.
I love his quote on Sky News they were "only worth" about GBP 500,000 at the time.

Apparently the pass code is a 24 digit number so without the hard drive he has lost the lot.

[LoveDaBlues]

Note: Crypto-currencies are not legal in Thailand. In all their utter brilliance, the authorities here are the only ones in the world who have banned them. This thread's purpose is to discuss them (unless that violates forum rules?).

That said, you can buy/sell them freely over the internet at reputable exchanges or contact one of the several people who will trade with you in-person (not me, btw). I can recommend Coinbase, Bitstamp, and BTC-e, but expect several days before your funds are made available to you. Likewise, expect delays withdrawing.

I have done some extensive research since hearing about them from Bumper mid-August. My initial thought was "WOW" and I began looking into the best way to get involved. I'll spare a rather long novella and just say one should buy rather than mine coins. At the time, BTC was at $120, dropped down to $70 after a high-profile commerce site closed, and then recovered and shot to the moon since then. Today, BTC is at $1,100+ as I type this. It has a long, long way up to go yet from here. The supply is hard-capped and the demand and rate of adoption is incredible.

These currencies (BTC and LTC, primarily) will - in my lifetime - make obsolete: Almost the entire global banking infrastructure, bankers, central banks, PayPal, Western Union, Forex, all fiat currencies, etc. It really is that revolutionary (!). It sounds kookie to the layman who does not know or understand the how and why, so please do educate yourselves because it is absolutely the future and will affect your life as much as the microchip, the wheel, or air travel.

Here are some primer sites:

What is BitCoin
http://www.bitcoin.org

Real news about BitCoin happenings/developments/integration/ecosystem
http://www.coindesk.com

Chatter
http://www.bitcointalk.org

I am well-informed and happy to discuss the subject with anyone who is interested.

asked the guy at the food stall last night if I could pay with BitCoins......for some reason he wouldn't sell me
any chicken.....

[jackspratt]

After reading the OP's earlier musings and predictions for gold, some caution may be called for before plunging into bit coins.

[LoveDaBlues]

After reading the OP's earlier musings and predictions for gold, some caution may be called for before plunging into bit coins.

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KHONDAHM » June 19, 2011

It's going to the moon for all the reasons I've already posted, which have proven 110% correct INCLUDING my price prediction made last year. I was off by a month or two, but only because of some things the Fed did which only delayed the rise. Gold remains a strong buy through USD 4,000.

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JS - seems the moon has lowered it's orbit.........

[leterry60614]

Let's not get personal, this is a worthy subject.

Another question about storage. Short of keeping your Bitcoin treasor on a cold hard drive, can you print your Bitcoins on a piece of paper with a QR-code and would that piece of paper be sufficient?

[parrot]

In my lifetime (doesn't go back to the Great Depression), the scariest of financial times had to be 2008....beginning in the spring and exploding in the fall. I'll admit that during a few weeks of that autumn, I had concerns about the safety of even the money I had in saving accounts back in the US......and grave concerns about the health of my meager mutual fund investments. But as Paulson, then Geithner and Bernanke led the response to the crisis, I felt reassured of our government's determination not to allow the crash of 2008 to bring the global financial system grinding to a halt.

Reading the article in the Economist about bitcoin doesn't give me a warm fuzzy about any sort of control or transparency over the 'currency'. But most of all.....while it may be good for those who benefited from wild swings in its value.....I'd be more prone to put my money on a stock like google whose trajectory has been mostly up.......rather than a bitcoin's bucking bronco swings in value. Finally, I'd probably sleep less knowing that the value of the currency depends on the reliance and integrity of its software and crypto.
Crypto-currencies may have their day.....but I'm not sure their day has yet to arrive.

http://www.economist.com/news/technolog ... and-highly

[leterry60614]

Regarding "But as Paulson, then Geithner and Bernanke led the response to the crisis, I felt reassured of our government's determination not to allow the crash of 2008 to bring the global financial system grinding to a halt."

Note that the big push for Bitcoin originates mainly from the US, for instance the 1st ATM delivering Bitcoin is on the west coast. We all felt the danger of financial collapse in 2008 and the failures of US politicians in 2012 and this year didn't help reassure us. Abroad, the US currency special status is resented by many... This comfortable situation can change almost instantly, for example, the US, Europe, Japan or the UK could fail paying interests on their public debt. A well implemented crypto-currency could insulate savings of many US residents since they can't hold any gold. Not that far off the future I am afraid.

[parrot]

A well implemented crypto-currency could insulate savings of many US residents since they can't hold any gold. Not that far off the future I am afraid.

?? Since 1975 some US citizens have been stuffing their mattresses with it.....legally!

I might feel more comfortable with the idea if Satoshi Nakamoto testified before Congress (for what that would be worth).

Last I read, there wasn't a crypto system that NSA couldn't break. If NSA can break it, I'd be concerned about some other rogue nation (Russia, China come to mind) doing the same.

I'm not knocking the idea.......I'm just not comfy with it......but then, I'm over the hill.

[rick]

Firstly, national currencies do have a government who have an interest in the value of their currency. They may wish it to go up, or down in value, but usually within a limited range. Even when a currency is going to the dogs, it does so slowly, like Zimbabwean dollars - you do have some opportunity to spend it, and usually accepted. Crypto-currencies have no-one responsible for supporting their value - and - are only worth what someone else will pay for it. Hence the wild swings in value. And as said, any cryptographic can be broken, eventually. When this happens what happens to its value? And how easy are they to steal? Also note that most 'mining' for bitcoins is done by illegal botnets, not honest individuals. First big crisis in confidence and there will be no where to spend them.

Crypto-currencies, certainly those with no national or big business guarantor are purely speculative investments with no intrinsic value. They are a quick way to make - or loose a fortune.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

There are 4 or so ATM for bit-coins set up in Vancouver, British Columbia and one is due to open in Toronto soon. The news reports on bit coins suggest they are mostly used by gangsters and people trying to hide money from the government. In other words, shady people are involved with bit coins currently. I do not know if that is true or not. http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... ada-banks/

One writer has compared the fate of the bit coin is like dealing in gold: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gold-an ... -1.1364199
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/revenue ... -1.1395075

[Laan Yaa Mo]

After reading the OP's earlier musings and predictions for gold, some caution may be called for before plunging into bit coins.

Yes, so true. It is argued that there is a link between speculating in bit coins and gold:-

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/gold-an ... -1.1364199

One reader wrote,

incalgary
Can you say "ponzi scheme"?

When it comes to bit coins, there's a sucker born every minute.

Same link as above.

[LilRed]

Rick da nail on da head... Great risk can bring great profit, or, great loss, or, anything in between... While Bitcoin is interestin, there's no doubt it is in the highest risk category. One best not gamble what one cannot afford to lose.

Bitcoin, or, some other form of cyber currency, seems to be the near future (10 yrs? 20?). Remember the ol' "credits" in sooo many scifi works? But, the short term future is murky.

ATB

[Laan Yaa Mo]

For once we are on the same wavelength LilRed. 555+

[KHONDAHM]

"Note that the big push for Bitcoin originates mainly from the US.."

The US is a small player. China is the raging bull regarding BitCoin. China has been dumping the dollar ever more rapidly ever since Bush wielded it as a weapon of coercion after 9/11. They also recently announced they will be not only tapering, but perhaps even go cold turkey regarding purchasing more US debt. The Fed had "Operation Twist" going where they exchanged short term debt for long term debt. China was the counterparty to that. All they need do now is simply allow their new short term debt to mature. A quiet MEGA-dollar dump. With China out of the market for US debt, what happens to the dollar is academic.

I could go on and on and mention that in the future doing business with China means doing business using BTC, but it's mostly OT and I'll let you all do your own DD regarding that if interested in understanding more than just what CNBC feeds it's audience between soundbites. I even provided the links in the OP, but "you can't make 'em..."

Regarding the personal swipes at me: I got into BTC well before the November spike. Har, har, Har back atcha. :-"

[parrot]

I don't think any body was taking a swipe at you.....but rather your previous assurances on near future gold prices. You wanted a conversation on bit coin.....so be prepared to take the good with the bad. Nothing personal!

[KHONDAHM]

I don't think any body was taking a swipe at you.....but rather your previous assurances on near future gold prices. You wanted a conversation on bit coin.....so be prepared to take the good with the bad. Nothing personal!

I can accept a direct quote, but how about also quoting any of the numerous "disclaimers" I often posted about my timing often being way off. Except for whenever I might have mentioned dates, whether or not I am wrong remains to be seen. Some of my "disclaimers" were likely omitted from those same quotes (I haven't checked, but that is often the case with people in this forum when pulling old quotes) Those should be much easier to find.

Anyway,

"You wanted a conversation on bit coin..." - Parrot, above

so...hmmm...gold price has WHAT to do with BTC again? lol

[parrot]

so...hmmm...gold price has WHAT to do with BTC again? lol

I'd say they're both highly speculative....not for the faint of heart as some people found out this past year.