Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?

[fremmel]

Oops, forgot you aren't currently in Thailand so it'd be kind of hard to go visit a construction site. Maybe when you get back. CoolThaiHouse has lots of pictures in their gallery section. You can probably find some good pictures there.

[UdonExpat]

My interior walls are red brick with stucco. A groove is cut into the wall and the conduit placed in the groove and and then stuccoed over. Same with the switch and receptacle boxes. A space is fashioned in the wall and the box put in it, the conduit attached and everything is stuccoed up tight. The conduit just sticks out the top of the wall in the crawl space above the ceiling. All connections in the crawl space are primitive: No junction boxes, wire nuts, etc; just twisted and taped together.

The plumbing that comes up from the floor is the same. A groove cut into the wall and the pipe placed in it. Then stucco and tile over it. The drains are similar. It took some effort to get them to install pea traps under the sinks, but I finally did it, after removing all their initial setups. This helps keep roaches, other insects, and smells from coming up the drains. They also thought I was crazy for wanting a drain vent pipe that extended up through the roof to vent away bad sewage smells. They thought that it was adequate to put it on the exterior wall about shoulder height.

Single superblock is adequate. I didn't have money to spend on elaborate walls that really aren't necessary in my opinion. The builder's foreman complained about the high cost of the mastic used to hold the superblocks together and wanted to revert to what they use for the red bricks. I nixed that idea. I have never been able to find a R value for the superblock, but simply judging from the differences in heat uptake between it and red brick, it is probably considerable.

The sheet rock used in Thailand probably comes from China, and there are currently numerous lawsuits in the US over the use of this sheet rock there as it seems to be causing health problems in the homes where it was installed. I am bit concerned because my ceilings are made from it. I recommend keeping sheet rock at a minimum.

I agree with fremmel, the a/c guys just have no experience with insulated homes. I think my a/c guy was genuinely concerned that I'd be unhappy with such small units. He was basing his estimates on red brick walls, pressure cooker roofs, and windows and doors that are not even close to air tight and square meters in each room. I also used dual pane windows with e-glass that helps to reduce heat uptake and makes the house much quieter when the windows and doors are closed. I used a web site by Mitsubishi in the US that helped me estimate my BTU needs. It was quite extensive and used the volume of the rooms rather than square feet. As I have higher than normal ceilings this was essential to getting a good estimate.

Building a house in Thailand that is comfortable throughout the year is not all that difficult if you use superblock for the exterior walls and create a well ventilated roof with some insulation. Design that limits exterior walls exposure to the mid and late afternoon sun also goes a long way in making a comfortable home. Placing the car park area in the SW corner will help in protecting the walls from the sun.

Good luck.

[sammyg]

Thanks So Much Guys ,Great Information All !!! I truely appreciate it.SammyG

[fremmel]

I ran across the figures I used to decide what kind of walls I wanted to build so I thought I'd post them in case Sammyg or anyone else was interested. But be careful with these numbers. The prices are from better than a year ago. The only firm prices were for the concrete block, AAC block, and insulation. The mortar, mastic, and render prices were best guesses. Some R values are from this R value table and hopefully are close. The insulation R value was from the packaging. The R values for the AAC block are from the Q-Con site and I had to convert them from the metric system to the English system but they're close to what's in the other R value table. I just took a wild guess for an R value for the AAC block render. Also, I had no way of guesssing the labor prices so I left those off. Conceivably labor for AAC block walls should be cheaper but I don't know if that's actually the case or not.

(Sorry about the formatting here but I couldn't make it any prettier.)

Per sqm price for a double concrete block wall:
block @ 3.5 bt 87.5
mortar and render 46
insulation 47.9
181.4

Per sqm for a single 7.5 cm AAC block wall
AAC block @ 18 bt 145
mastic and render 55.5
200.5

R value double concrete block
block(2) 1.6
render 0.2
fiberglass 7.7
9.5

R value for AAC block
7.5 cm 3.3
render 0.2
3.5

For reference - 20 cm AAC block R value - 8.7

These results really surprised me. I've lived in several houses in Thailand and the one made of AAC block was cooler and quieter so I thought I'd probably build with them even though they were pricier. But when I actually ran the numbers I saw that I could get a wall with about 2 or 3 times the R value for less money. Even allowing for substantial errors in my calculations I decided that a double block wall should be about the price of a thin AAC block wall and the R value much better. In addition, with a thicker wall I wouldn't have to look at so many posts and I could do a better treatment with my windows, burglar bars, and screens.

Again, treat the numbers with a grain of salt but the general relationship should hold.

If you see any holes in my reasoning feel free to poke.

[sammyg]

Good Info.fremmel I have studied,copied and stored for future reference.Thanks Very much!SammyG

[Arosolius]

I've been looking for a Superblock supplier in Udon but have been unable to find one so I wrote to the company in Bangkok.
Here's their reply:


Dear sirs,

Thanks for your attention,We don't have yet our agent in Udon Thani. You may order directly to our head office.
We will assign our sale person to take care your case since you send us the quantity and size of blocks .

Thanks
apichai MKT manager
PS Our official email always be attacked by spam mail.Sorry for your inconvenience.

So where have you guys that have been building with this product been getting your supplies?

Ordering from Bangkok, I would think, adds quite significantly to the price of a house.

[kopkei]

home mart has the official Q blocks ( 28 baht )which are more expensive than the other brand names ( no brand) ,
global house has them 22baht, and champ the concrete factory outside udon direction sakon nakhon
is selling them at 18 baht a piece

[Arosolius]

Thanks Kopekei

So I guess Superblock is different to Q-Con?

The official Superblock website is here: http://www.superblockthailand.com/service.html

Now I'll start looking for Q - Con specs

[RLTrader]

Q-Con is here

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro.php

Have not looked at site in years and years. But it was very good in both thai and english. It also had instructions on laying the block in both, but don't bother showing to your builder, for most can't be bothered or just maybe they can't read.

as far as I can tell when the same ingredients go into making something, its given a generic name, like CAKE. But some will disagree.

I might still have the instructions on one of my computers, if you end up needing, I will look. PM me.

[RLTrader]

Oh, if you do go with Q-Con there is a dealer next to the glass place across from old Tesco on ring road. There was another pass the intersection at Big C, forgot the name but in same area lot as St Mall or something like that. Check both 4 best price,

[kopkei]

arosolius, they are all same only different brand and prices......
when we build new home next year we will use use the ones from the champ concrete factory as all other items there are also of excellent quality...

[Frankie 1]

Thanks Kopekei

So I guess Superblock is different to Q-Con?

The official Superblock website is here: http://www.superblockthailand.com/service.html

Now I'll start looking for Q - Con specs

Superblock (S-block)
Thaicon block
Q-con block

All the same stuff, but different brand name.

The problem with q-con blocks is that they are a lot more expensive then the other brands and when delivered, there are several blocks already broken on the pallet package.

Q-con blocks are between 29 and 31 baht per piece, depending on where you buy them.

S-blocks:
Global House @ 25 baht per piece
Thai Watsadu (Khon Kaen) @ 21.5 baht per piece.

For me (living in Kumphawapi) it was cheaper to buy the blocks in Khon Kaen. (the overall price including delivery).

[RLTrader]

I built my house with the exterior walls out of superblock with only the stucco like covering they trowel on it. The c-pac roof has the reflective membrane under it, there is good air ventilation at the roof peaks and 3 inches of fiberglass insulation on top of the ceiling.

When the air con guy came to give me an estimate I disagreed with his recommendations on the BTU's needed for each room. Basically, I went with about 1/2 of what he recommended and I don't regret it. The house is dramatically cooler than houses made from concrete blocks or red bricks with the pressure cooker roofs that have no heat releasing ventilation.

The walls remain cool to the touch even when the sun shines on them. As a comparison, the perimeter wall around the property is too hot to touch.

The electricity, cable, and telephone are in conduits in the walls coming down from above the ceiling. The plumbing is built into the floors and walls. Both systems are primitive in comparison to US building codes, but they are adequate, and because labor is so cheap tearing up a cement floor or wall is no big deal except for the inconvenience. Because the electrical system is so primitive I had safety cut GFI installed on the whole electrical panel. I highly recommend this.

agree 98% - Only difference was I did All Walls and I never ask A/C people for recommendations, but used an online calculator and entered my best guess for questions and rounded up. I also shopped around and went with Q-Con block and lintels. After 6 or so years seems I did ok.

This all seems like a Old Argument 'difference between Block' and you can never win it. To me a list of ingredients, if the same make the same product. Some disagree. Q-Con has/had a great web site (which I posted too many times) with both Thai/English instructions on building with Q-Con.

[Isan1968]

Superblock (S-block)
Thaicon block
Q-con block

All the same stuff, but different brand name.

If my information are right Q Con is the only one for a load bearing building. Mean with Q Con blocks you no need concrete columns. I think that´s why Q Con is more expensive than other products.

[Isan1968]

Q-Con is here

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro.php

Have not looked at site in years and years. But it was very good in both thai and english. It also had instructions on laying the block in both, but don't bother showing to your builder, for most can't be bothered or just maybe they can't read.

as far as I can tell when the same ingredients go into making something, its given a generic name, like CAKE. But some will disagree.

I might still have the instructions on one of my computers, if you end up needing, I will look. PM me.

Sounds like you build your house also with Q-Con Blocks? Load bearing or you use concrete columns?

[Frankie 1]

Superblock (S-block)
Thaicon block
Q-con block

All the same stuff, but different brand name.

If my information are right Q Con is the only one for a load bearing building. Mean with Q Con blocks you no need concrete columns. I think that´s why Q Con is more expensive than other products.

They are all the same: Autoclaved Aerated Concrete (AAC) blocks, or cell concrete blocks. They are not made for supporting a construction. It's concrete that contains small air bubbles. You can even saw them with a regular hand woodsaw.

Q-con is more expensive, because it comes from SCG/CPAC. Most of their products are more expensive than the other brands.

Yes, you can always build without concrete poles, but it doesn't mean that the AAC blocks (whatever the brand-name) can bear a big load like a metal roof frame and concrete rooftiles, which weigh thousands of kilos.

[JR]

Anyone knows anything about K-Block? Are they the same as the others? Tried to find a website to no avail.

[Frankie 1]

Anyone knows anything about K-Block? Are they the same as the others? Tried to find a website to no avail.

http://www.k-block.com/home.php

[JR]

Thanks Frankie

[RLTrader]

Q-Con is here

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro.php

Have not looked at site in years and years. But it was very good in both thai and english. It also had instructions on laying the block in both, but don't bother showing to your builder, for most can't be bothered or just maybe they can't read.

as far as I can tell when the same ingredients go into making something, its given a generic name, like CAKE. But some will disagree.

I might still have the instructions on one of my computers, if you end up needing, I will look. PM me.

Sounds like you build your house also with Q-Con Blocks? Load bearing or you use concrete columns?

concrete columns