usufruct in Udon

Information on building a house, buying poperty and land, and all other general contruction topics...
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KHONDAHM
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usufruct in Udon

Post by KHONDAHM » June 29, 2013, 12:28 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
KHONDAHM wrote:if something happens to her, the land doesn't go to me. It can't.
Khondahm, just curious about this point in red above. If your wife has executed a Last Will and Testament and willed the land to you 100%, as a falang you have a legal right to inherit the property but it has to be sold within a certain time frame (can't remember the exact timing). If your wife has no Will then it would naturally go to the daughter as you have said...or in-laws at the discretion of the court until your daughter becomes of legal age. I could very well be wrong but would like to hear your further comment on the matter since it may call into question the validity of my own wife's Will.
You are absolutely correct.

However, although I know about the 1 year thing, in my mind that still means I can't own it. My intention is to die on our [her/the kids'] land, not sell it if she passes before I do (unlikely, but TIT). I predicate such a scenario around statutory inheritance rather than a will because a will can be challenge by her family or my daughter's biological father (whom I do not know) or his family. My wife legally cut all his ties to our daughter, but again...TIT.

So, as it stands, our plan is that all land will go to our daughter (full Thai) and I will maintain a usufruct. Our son will get a usufruct when he is of age although title will remain in our daughter's name. All buildings - such as our family home - will be in our son's name. When my wife and I are both dead and gone, they can work out their own arrangements. ;)


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mrmazinkle
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usufruct in Udon

Post by mrmazinkle » June 29, 2013, 12:40 pm

semperfiguy wrote:
mrmazinkle wrote:we have the chanote..We changed the name on it 5 days ago>I will email them but I am sure that whatever they say it will be difficult to tell the Thai boss in the land office that this IS the law.same with everything her I spose it's all at the whim of a government employee.Thanks again...
Yea, the Thai boss has already given you his verdict, so for him to accept your interpretation and be put in a position that compromises his decision would be a loss of face for him. Best bet is to find another person to take you in the back door. Squires Consultants has an office in Baan San Sa-Ran where I live, and I know that she has helped many people with closings in this village. She is supposedly well connected in the Land Office and can walk you through easily. You might want to give her a call and see what she says on the matter.

Squires Consultants

Squires Consultants in Soi 11 Baan San Sa-Ran. (Lake Garden City) Nong Bua.
Thanks great advise and duly noted.Contact info may come in handy.thank you
A fluent English speaking lady runs the company. Chuthamat Squires (Roong) Tel/Fax 042-931966

Jello
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Jello » June 29, 2013, 1:20 pm

For peace of mind I would cough up the baht and get a real lawyer rather than a consultant. JMO
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usufruct in Udon

Post by WhoUrDaddy » June 29, 2013, 1:31 pm

KD...........Nice follow up post to the trolls, and it is within one year the land needs to be sold, if willed to foreigner.

trust little lady and her family, but accidents and emergencies do arise. if needing and mortgaging the land/house for medical emergencies or settle lawsuits and not being able to pay back, one still has a place to live.

to OP.............Your info about house / blue book is incorrect. the 'pu yi ban' / 'gummum' have to sign off paperwork that house construction is approximately 80 % done, then a house / blue book can be issued.

unless staffing at ampher muang udon thani land office has changed, i see no reason why the paperwork wasn't done to your liking.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

for the extremely technical legal way for a lease to work, it actually can..........BUT........would need judicial review, and should hold, if all falls and stays in place. if leased to you, and you can sub-lease, and you do sub-lease, then your lease can not be cancelled, as it would effect a 3rd party lease, of course that 3rd party would also have to remain for the length of the lease you desire.................good luck with that one...... 8)

___________________________________________________________________________________________

you already know the moral of the story, don't invest more than you can walk away from. :roll:
Last edited by WhoUrDaddy on June 29, 2013, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kopkei
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usufruct in Udon

Post by kopkei » June 29, 2013, 1:37 pm

i did not read all here ,i am only posting my experience , we bought land in udon 8 years ago and registered with a usufruct
your name will be also on the land paper ( chanote ) in the back , costs 80 baht , and now we are building a home there... ;)

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usufruct in Udon

Post by Jello » June 29, 2013, 1:48 pm

It's very interesting reading the different experiences people have with the land office.
I bought land in my wifes name. I wasn't interesting in doing the usufruct at the time (I will get one along with will's through a lawyer before I begin to build), after signing the required letter stating I have no rights to the land, the guy at the land office said he could do the usufruct for 2,000 baht. :shock: I said no thanks.

Different folks, different answers...... :-kTIT!
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KHONDAHM
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usufruct in Udon

Post by KHONDAHM » June 29, 2013, 4:26 pm

Getting a lawyer involved for a usufruct is pointless. The land office does not accept anything other than the standardized fill-in-the-blanks form.

The cost in 2010 was 70 baht and took less than an hour including wait time (on a Wednesday morning). The clerk provides direction for filling out the form correctly so that there are no mistakes. They are motivated to get you in and out, then on to the next person.
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Jello » June 29, 2013, 4:46 pm

KHONDAHM wrote:Getting a lawyer involved for a usufruct is pointless.
Certinly is if they won't give him one, as the OP stated.
KHONDAHM wrote:The cost in 2010 was 70 baht
Understand. Others have said the same. Just passing on what I got hit up for. Tea money I guess. :?
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Jello
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Jello » July 9, 2013, 10:15 am

Apparently this is a new policy in Udon? Has anyone else run into this? Was the OP (mrmazinkle) able to get his usufruct yet?
The Land Department in Udon Thani and usufructs
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:22:38 PM »
The land department in Udon Thani is refusing to register usufruct to foreigners.
They also told us on the phone that they are refusing leases and superficies. That is a decision of the head officer of the land department.
That is scary for foreigners....

They only contract he agrees is rights of habitation. I never seen that anywhere else and that's the only place i know.
And we did register usufructs in the past in Udon Thani. YEsterday, someone called us said he had problems and wanted us to register it for him. We double checked, verified, and the land department does not want to do it.

Few years ago, the head officer of ALL land department gave some discretion to each head officer of the land department to refuse or accept agreements. The Civil Code or the law of Thailand should be the same everywhere...http://isaan.com/forum/index.php/topic, ... ml#msg5491
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Jello » July 9, 2013, 10:26 am

Found this on "Right of Habitation".
The right of habitation concerns only the right to dwell in a house

HABITATION LAWS IN THAILAND

The grantee of the right of habitation does not pay rent to the grantor. If there is rental payment made, the matter becomes a Hire of Property. A right of habitation may be created for either a specific period of time or for the lifetime of the grantee. In case the rights are granted for a specific time period, the law states that such a period may not exceed 30 years; if a longer period is fixed, it shall be enforceable for only 30 years. The grant may be renewed for a period not exceeding 30 years from the time of renewal. Lastly, the right of habitation is not transferable by way of inheritance.


---------------

Translation Civil and Commercial Code Thailand

TITLE V

RIGHT OF HABITATION

Section 1402. A person who has been granted a right of habitation (arsai) in a building is entitled to occupy such building as a dwelling place without paying rent.

มาตรา 1402 บุคคลใดได้รับสิทธิอาศัยในโรงเรือน บุคคลนั้นย่อมมี สิทธิอยู่ในโรงเรือนนั้นโดยไม่ต้องเสียค่าเช่า

Section 1403. A right of habitation may be created either for a period of time or for the life of the grantee.

If no time has been fixed, such right may be terminated at any time by giving reasonable notice to the grantee.

If it is granted for a period of time, the period may not exceed thirty years; if a longer period is stipulated, it shall be reduced to thirty years. The grant may be renewed for a period not exceeding thirty years from the time of renewal.

มาตรา 1403 สิทธิอาศัยนั้น ท่านว่าจะก่อให้เกิดโดยมีกำหนดเวลาหรือ ตลอดชีวิตของผู้อาศัยก็ได้

ถ้าไม่มีกำหนดเวลา ท่านว่าสิทธินั้นจะเลิกเสียในเวลาใด ๆ ก็ได้ แต่ ต้องบอกล่วงหน้าแก่ผู้อาศัยตามสมควร

ถ้าให้สิทธิอาศัยโดยมีกำหนดเวลา กำหนดนั้นท่านมิให้เกินสามสิบปีถ้า กำหนดไว้นานกว่านั้น ให้ลดลงมาเป็นสามสิบปี การให้สิทธิอาศัยจะต่ออายุ ก็ได้ แต่ต้องกำหนดเวลาไม่เกินสามสิบปีนับแต่วันทำต่อ

Section 1404. The right of habitation is not transferable even by way of inheritance.

มาตรา 1404 สิทธิอาศัยนั้นจะโอนกันไม่ได้แม้โดยทางมรดก

Section 1405. Unless the right of habitation is expressly limited to be for the benefit of the grantee personally, the members of his family and his household may dwell with him.

มาตรา 1405 สิทธิอาศัยนั้นถ้ามิได้จำกัดไว้ชัดแจ้งว่าให้เพื่อประโยชน์ แก่ผู้อาศัยเฉพาะตัวไซร้ บุคคลในครอบครัวและในครัวเรือนของผู้อาศัยจะอยู่ ด้วยก็ได้

Section 1406. Unless expressly forbidden by the grantor, the grantee may take such natural fruits or products of the land as are necessary for the needs of his household.

มาตรา 1406 ถ้าผู้ให้อาศัยมิได้ห้ามไว้ชัดแจ้ง ผู้อาศัยจะเก็บเอาดอก ผลธรรมดาหรือผลแห่งที่ดิน มาใช้เพียงที่จำเป็นแก่ความต้องการของครัว เรือนก็ได้

Section 1407. The grantor is not bound to maintain the property in a good state of repair.

The grantee cannot claim reimbursement of expenses made by him for improvements to the property.

มาตรา 1407 ผู้ให้อาศัยไม่จำต้องบำรุงรักษาทรัพย์สินให้อยู่ในความ ซ่อมแซมอันดี

ผู้อาศัยจะเรียกให้ชดใช้ค่าใช้จ่าย ซึ่งได้ออกไปในการทำให้ทรัพย์สินดีขึ้น หาได้ไม่

Section 1408. When the right of habitation comes to an end the grantee must return the property to the grantor.

มาตรา 1408 เมื่อสิทธิอาศัยสิ้นลง ผู้อาศัยต้องส่งทรัพย์สินคืนแก่ผู้ให้อาศัย

Section 1409. The provisions of this Code concerning Duties and Liabilities of the Hirer, as specified in Sections 552, 555, 558, 562 and 563 shall apply mutatis mutandis.

http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-rights ... ights.html
How does this differ from the usufruct? :
The Right of Habitation under the Civil and Commercial laws of Thailand refer to the on the title deed registered right of a person to live in the house of another gratuitously. The right of habitation differs from a usufruct contract that a the person granted a usufruct is allowed to transfer his rights to a third person, where the right of habitation grants only the use of a property for the residence of the grantee himself and family. As opposed to lease no rent or consideration is paid, when rent is paid the matter becomes a hire of property.

A habitation contract refers to the right of dwelling in a house.
http://www.samuiforsale.com/other-misce ... tract.html
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Prenders88
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Prenders88 » July 9, 2013, 10:49 am

The lesson here is.....If it flies, floats or fcuks, or you want a 30 lease it is cheaper to rent.
Udon Thani, best seen through your car's rear view mirror.

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Prenders88
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Prenders88 » July 9, 2013, 11:16 am

If someone can get a venue/meeting room, my friend who is a lawyer working at City Hall will explain everything about protecting your assets here in Thailand. :D
Udon Thani, best seen through your car's rear view mirror.

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boes
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usufruct in Udon

Post by boes » November 24, 2014, 3:16 pm

Jello wrote:Apparently this is a new policy in Udon? Has anyone else run into this? Was the OP (mrmazinkle) able to get his usufruct yet?
The Land Department in Udon Thani and usufructs
« on: May 21, 2013, 01:22:38 PM »
The land department in Udon Thani is refusing to register usufruct to foreigners.
They also told us on the phone that they are refusing leases and superficies. That is a decision of the head officer of the land department.
That is scary for foreigners....

They only contract he agrees is rights of habitation. I never seen that anywhere else and that's the only place i know.
And we did register usufructs in the past in Udon Thani. YEsterday, someone called us said he had problems and wanted us to register it for him. We double checked, verified, and the land department does not want to do it.

Few years ago, the head officer of ALL land department gave some discretion to each head officer of the land department to refuse or accept agreements. The Civil Code or the law of Thailand should be the same everywhere...http://isaan.com/forum/index.php/topic, ... ml#msg5491

Are there any updates on the above ?????
Are there any problems now getting usufructs in Udon Thani ??

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Aardvark
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usufruct in Udon

Post by Aardvark » November 24, 2014, 4:30 pm

boes, you gave me a Heart Attack by posting this thread. First thing I saw was Prenders Avatar 8-[ For a moment I thought he'd returned from the big udon in the sky [-o< RIP Prenders ....

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