Hi guys I really did try to find the information on forum and thru the search for prices for these blocks REALLY!
I know that I saw them before here but perhaps it was a different site(coolhouse)but I know they were quotes form guys form Udon Thani at any rate.We are going to build house in Udon Thani hopefully starting in July/09 and was hoping to find the larger 8"Wx14"Lx8"H concrete bricks like from the U.S. but have had no luck.Father in law our builder does not like the concrete blocks either as he says they crack easily when try to drill for pipeing and wiring and especially after you have put on exterior concrete you dont know where you are drilling into possible the middle block support splitting it into.So now am thinking of using a Superblock 1 brick thickness and using metal 2"x4" s and insulation then sheetrock the inside walls and ceilings.Hoping that this will be adequate to cool the inside of house in the summer months with adequate A/C.This sounds like a feasible and cost effective idea morsoe than the double Q-Con Block or Superblock double walls that I have seen on different sites.A friend of mine is doing double Superblock walls plus metal studs,insulation then sheetrock and says that will give him better hiding space for the pipes and electrical.Has anyone had any real comparison of these type building techniques while living or building around Udon Thani?Father in law says he got a price of the Superblocks of 38 baht per brick and I'm sure I saw a quote by someone around Udon Thani,NongbuaLamphu or nearby of 22 baht if buying 2000 or more brick at a time,maybe I'm wrong as the memory sometimes fails me?Still searching for someone that knows about steel built prefab houses in Thailand but to know avail as yet as most I find are built in China and say they will ship to Thailand but no one ever emails me back and forgot to borrow a Bangkok phone book in early March when we were there.Can't find anything in Udon phone book though.Thanks guys SammyG
Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Sammy,
My experience of building in Thailand is that pipework & electrical supply is "built"into the support columns/floor etc. where you are actually laying concrete - rather than into the "blocks"/walls. This, obviously, takes a fair bit of planning BEFORE building, as to where all the electrics & plumbing is going to go. Obviously this only works if the builder is "creating" the reinforced concrete structure of the house on site, rather than buying in pre-fabricated pieces.
It needs to be well thought out as any "additions" after the build is going to result in the problems your Father-in-law indicated.
My experience of building in Thailand is that pipework & electrical supply is "built"into the support columns/floor etc. where you are actually laying concrete - rather than into the "blocks"/walls. This, obviously, takes a fair bit of planning BEFORE building, as to where all the electrics & plumbing is going to go. Obviously this only works if the builder is "creating" the reinforced concrete structure of the house on site, rather than buying in pre-fabricated pieces.
It needs to be well thought out as any "additions" after the build is going to result in the problems your Father-in-law indicated.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Oh I forgot to mention that I am definitely going to insulate under the roof tiles(leaning toward the concrete tile roofs light colored they look very nice!)but am also intersted in any other suggestions or experiences others have had with cooling or longevity with perhaps metal roofs that also look nice?I also will probably put either foiled sheetrock under ceiling or lay insulation on top of rafters but some type anyway as well as very large ventilation areas at least both ends of house roof.Not sure if I need to incorporate intake & exhaust fans here or not or if I should consider the whirlygig roof vents like on large metal buildings for cooling that turn with the wind.I see them all along the roads but wondered how good they were for ceiling around on the roof and rain coming down thru them?Also thinking of building a cistern type water tank underground as from what I have seen at friends houses around Udon Thani the water pressure doesn't seem high enough to fill a tank very high off the ground as I think I could pee faster than most water taps I've seen.I realize that it may involve pressure switches and possible more than one pump but I dont believe so as I had a 80 gallon pressurized water tank in my pump house that pumped out of my well pump and had to have my well pump removed once in 26 years and never cleaned and what is well nothing more than a water vessel to hold water and as long as large amounts of oxygen aren't allowed to stay on the sides of the tank then you shouldn't need to clean that often.You could always leave 2 large manhole lids for doing pump repairs etc. to dig up at a later date anyway.Any suggestions ot why this is a good idea or just BS here in Udon would be appreciated.Thanks Guys Love the site ,SammyG
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Thanks Bob I forgot about the concrete support columns as a conduit space for these utilities but that leaves alot of area with no place for plug ins and you can never have enough plug ins in my opinion? Also would be hard to define in a kitchen area where to locate American stoves,micros,refers,etc.One website I saw that the man was doing his inside walls with the double Superblocks as well as he said that it sound proofed the rooms also but thats one hell of a cost to me and I'm trying to get by as Frugal(cheap) as possible!How would you repair or add on connections to electrical or plumbing leaks in the future if they were located in this area either as I have seen quite a few fairly nice houses with blue plastic pipes on the outside of a house going from a bottom floor window thru to the top floor window?I assumed they had a leak and just ran a new pipe on the outside of the house but it looks like S--T and I wouldn't find that an option I would like?Thanks for the info. though Bob,SammyG
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Sammyg your post and thread moved to House and Land Forum.
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Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Q-Con is the only sensible material for an external house wall in this climate.
If your current 'builder' is against the idea, I suggest you change him. Also, the 22 Baht per block is much closer to the last prices I saw for them. Again, it seems your 'builder' is telling porkies in an effort to get you to let him build a sub-standard house.
If your current 'builder' is against the idea, I suggest you change him. Also, the 22 Baht per block is much closer to the last prices I saw for them. Again, it seems your 'builder' is telling porkies in an effort to get you to let him build a sub-standard house.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Here's another option for you. I just finished building a house outside of Udon about 6 months ago and tried to make it easy to keep cool. I looked at using the AAC block like Q-Con but decided to go with a double wall of the local cheap, thin concrete blocks and put 2 inches of fiberglass insulation in between the two walls. That priced out cheaper than the single width AAC block and I calculated it to have a better R value. For the roof I used the standard CPAC concrete tiles with the reflective foil underneath, 1 meter vented eaves, passive vent stacks through the roof, and 4 inch fiberglass batts on the ceiling, A couple of other things I did to try to minimize heat gain was to make the house longer than it was wide, sort of ranch style, and then lined it up so the narrow sides of the house are east and west. The west end of the house is a couple of rooms we don't use much during the late afternoon. I also tried to arrange the doors and windows so we get good air flow from which ever way the wind blows.
This has worked out even better than I'd hoped. Despite some days getting up to 37 or 38° outside this year we haven't had to turn on the ACs yet. We just open up the windows to cool off the house at night and close them around 7:30 or 8 in the morning before it warms up. The house stays cool all day. But, that might not work for everyone. For one thing we live way out in the country so the nights are cool and quiet. And, my wife and I are comfortable with it a little warmer than some might like. On bright sunny days during the late afternoon it gets up to around 28° inside but with fans that's quite comfortable for us.
As far as burying the electrics and plumbing in the walls, we didn't have any problem with the thin block. Even with the single block wide interior walls.
This has worked out even better than I'd hoped. Despite some days getting up to 37 or 38° outside this year we haven't had to turn on the ACs yet. We just open up the windows to cool off the house at night and close them around 7:30 or 8 in the morning before it warms up. The house stays cool all day. But, that might not work for everyone. For one thing we live way out in the country so the nights are cool and quiet. And, my wife and I are comfortable with it a little warmer than some might like. On bright sunny days during the late afternoon it gets up to around 28° inside but with fans that's quite comfortable for us.
As far as burying the electrics and plumbing in the walls, we didn't have any problem with the thin block. Even with the single block wide interior walls.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Wow Thanks for the info. guys!Fremmel it sounds like you built the house how I hoped it would work! I assume you are talking the blocks that are about 10"highx16"Long x3" thick and you did double walls correct?Did you have any problems with teh blocks cracking when you drilled thru them or did you drill them while you could still see thru them?Father in laws concern that you wouldn't know where the center supports of the blocks or where they butt up to each other might crack while drilling.They don't appear to be made much different than the larger ones made in the U.S.!I love your design standards and fit quite well with my budget and size of house we intend to build.We are not far off of the ringroad but it is still country but not sure about it being cooler like our property in NongbuaLamphu is.I really appreciate your info. and will plan our house accordingly to your suggestions and think that is just exactly how we have to position our house to fit the land anyway even thoug it is 2 rai as we plan on having an English School classroom and teach CNA(certified nursing assist) for anyone wanting a job skill before moving to the U.S. so that they might have an occupation.We will also have AC but we usually get by with fans also but live in Montana right now,until July hopefully.Very encouraging!Did you do above ground water tank also like it seems the majority do?Thanks,SammyG
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Yes, the blocks I used were the 8"x16"x3" blocks you can get most anyplace for 3.5 to 4 baht. But they aren't like the blocks we're used to back in the states. Here they are pretty thin and not too strong because they aren't used for structural support for the roof. Here they use post and beam construction with the roof being supported on concrete posts and the block wall is just to fill in between the posts. And, yes, it was a double wall so that my walls, counting the stucco/plaster/render or whatever you want to call it, ended up 22 cm thick. A side benefit is that the support posts aren't visible.
The plumbing was put in the standard way as in the states. The plumbing lines, drains and supply, were laid, the floor poured over them, and the block walls built around them. After all the block was in the walls were cut to bury the electrical conduit where we wanted the outlets and switches. You don't need to worry about cutting the webbing in the block or having the block crack, You just fill it in with mortar like the other block joints. You do all this before the plaster goes on.
It sounds as if your father-in-law has only built cheaper housing with exposed wiring and plumbing so he doesn't really know how to do this. Before you hire him you probably ought to take a look at some of the other houses he's built and see if they're up to your standards. A lot of builders aren't too familiar with things like straight, level, plumb, and square, among other things.
My water supply is a little different from normal so I don't use a tank. But if I did I'd probably go with an above ground one for easy maintenance even though it makes the water hotter in the summer and colder in the winter.
The plumbing was put in the standard way as in the states. The plumbing lines, drains and supply, were laid, the floor poured over them, and the block walls built around them. After all the block was in the walls were cut to bury the electrical conduit where we wanted the outlets and switches. You don't need to worry about cutting the webbing in the block or having the block crack, You just fill it in with mortar like the other block joints. You do all this before the plaster goes on.
It sounds as if your father-in-law has only built cheaper housing with exposed wiring and plumbing so he doesn't really know how to do this. Before you hire him you probably ought to take a look at some of the other houses he's built and see if they're up to your standards. A lot of builders aren't too familiar with things like straight, level, plumb, and square, among other things.
My water supply is a little different from normal so I don't use a tank. But if I did I'd probably go with an above ground one for easy maintenance even though it makes the water hotter in the summer and colder in the winter.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
The standard size Superblock was selling for 19.5 baht each at Global on 4/9/09.
A few more ideas for keeping things cool. E-W orientation is good.......then put your carport on the western end to block the sun from the W wall.
Nov-Feb sun rises mostly to the SSW. Feb-Oct the sun rises mostly directly east. May-Sep morning sun can be as brutal as late afternoon sun. At all costs, keep the sun off your windows....either with oversized overhangs, trees, or other window coverings. Curtains don't help....it's much more important to stop the sun from hitting the windows/walls. If the sun doesn't hit your walls, superblock/double walls don't add any value (IMO).
If your home is raised up a meter or so, have the builder build an accessible water tank under the home. You'll really appreciate the cool showers in the summertime (9months of the year).
Overplant trees now! Take care of them like babies until they're 4-5 years old. Cut out any you don't need. Neem grows fast and only lose leaves for a month in Nov/Dec. It's a good tree to grow on the east/west. Toonkoon (the yellow flowered tree) grows fast as well, but loses leaves and is mostly bare in March/April. Not a good tree to grow on the east/west.
Good luck with the building
A few more ideas for keeping things cool. E-W orientation is good.......then put your carport on the western end to block the sun from the W wall.
Nov-Feb sun rises mostly to the SSW. Feb-Oct the sun rises mostly directly east. May-Sep morning sun can be as brutal as late afternoon sun. At all costs, keep the sun off your windows....either with oversized overhangs, trees, or other window coverings. Curtains don't help....it's much more important to stop the sun from hitting the windows/walls. If the sun doesn't hit your walls, superblock/double walls don't add any value (IMO).
If your home is raised up a meter or so, have the builder build an accessible water tank under the home. You'll really appreciate the cool showers in the summertime (9months of the year).
Overplant trees now! Take care of them like babies until they're 4-5 years old. Cut out any you don't need. Neem grows fast and only lose leaves for a month in Nov/Dec. It's a good tree to grow on the east/west. Toonkoon (the yellow flowered tree) grows fast as well, but loses leaves and is mostly bare in March/April. Not a good tree to grow on the east/west.
Good luck with the building
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Thank You Guys for your wise suggestions? I appreciate them immensly.Fremmel when you did your inside walls that you said were of single wall construction is there enough room to run electrical wiring and possibly water pipes up thru the inside of blocks as in bathrooms and outlets in bedrooms,etc.?Wife says her fahter told her that the mentioned concrete blocks crack and break when he tries to drill into them to even hang or mount a bracket for holding AC/ unit or even pictures?When I was there in early March I bought him a hammer drill for concrete and he said this is when he tried it and it cracked the walls.I know that I have used concrete drills quite alot in the U.S. but not a hammer drill unless it was a solid concrete wall for attaching support bolts.I would think on thin concrete blocks you would only use concrete drills correct and not a hammer drill?
I also was thinking that with the very,very low water pressure I have witnessed at friends houses around Udon Thani that having an elevated tank might be impossible to fill with the city water as I'm not so sure it has enough pressure to climb to that height.Wife said her father has a pump on incoming side of water which I doubt because there isn't enough water volume to feed the pump an keep it cool and would surely burn a pump fairly soon.My experience has been with a deepwell water supply for many years without to many problems.I was thinking more along the lines of building a large concrete water tank if you can't buy them in Thailand and put it underground but not under the house where you do not have access to it really.Perhaps under the carport area and have an acceess cover for any maintenance needed.You could make the lid strong enough to park cars on or at least motorbikes or storage?SammyG
I also was thinking that with the very,very low water pressure I have witnessed at friends houses around Udon Thani that having an elevated tank might be impossible to fill with the city water as I'm not so sure it has enough pressure to climb to that height.Wife said her father has a pump on incoming side of water which I doubt because there isn't enough water volume to feed the pump an keep it cool and would surely burn a pump fairly soon.My experience has been with a deepwell water supply for many years without to many problems.I was thinking more along the lines of building a large concrete water tank if you can't buy them in Thailand and put it underground but not under the house where you do not have access to it really.Perhaps under the carport area and have an acceess cover for any maintenance needed.You could make the lid strong enough to park cars on or at least motorbikes or storage?SammyG
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
The only way to drill a hole in masonry / stone/ concrete/ clay bricks/ marble/ slate, is a hole saw no vibration, used for granit / marble/ glass, usually starts at about 20mm minimum diameter. the hole saw is more accurate and is used for brittle substance
A concrete drill/ hammer drill are the same term, you need the vibration/ hammer action to drill into the stone concrete, the walls used here in Thai are just infill non load bearing using the little red bricks and render both sides, set between post and beam construction, so dont go hanging a basket ball net of the walls, your more than likely to pull the wall over
A concrete drill/ hammer drill are the same term, you need the vibration/ hammer action to drill into the stone concrete, the walls used here in Thai are just infill non load bearing using the little red bricks and render both sides, set between post and beam construction, so dont go hanging a basket ball net of the walls, your more than likely to pull the wall over
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Single block walls have plenty of room for wiring and enough room for plumbing. I ran 3/4" conduit instead of the standard 1/2" in every wall in the house and had no problem. I also ran 3/4" water lines as well. Plumbing lines are put in before the floor is poured and the walls built around them. Most drain lines in the wall are 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" and standard supply lines are 1/2". If they screw up a little on the placement of the drain or supply when they pour the floor they just add plaster and make the wall a little thicker when they tile it. If they screw up a lot you've got a problem. That's just one of the many things you have to check when you make your daily visit to the building site.
Electrical conduit is normally buried by cutting a channel with an angle grinder before the wall is plastered. In my house the builder also used a hammer drill one time to cut one when there were other people working in the room and he didn't want to make too much dust. The inside air handler for my ACs are all mounted on the block walls. I personally hung the kitchen wall cabinets and put up shelves after the house was finished using a hammer drill and plastic anchors with no problems. You don't want to put a lot of horizontal loading on this kind of mounting but vertical loading on these walls is no problem. I don't know why your father-in-law is so dead set against a standard Thai construction technique. To reassure yourself take a tour of some houses under construction and see what they are doing.
Pumps on the city water supply are illegal, not that it's never done. The normal way is to have the supply fill a ground level holding tank and then pump out of that. Some people do build in-ground concrete tanks or bury their plastic tanks. But keep in mind that city water is pretty crappy here and you need to drain and clean the tank periodically.
Electrical conduit is normally buried by cutting a channel with an angle grinder before the wall is plastered. In my house the builder also used a hammer drill one time to cut one when there were other people working in the room and he didn't want to make too much dust. The inside air handler for my ACs are all mounted on the block walls. I personally hung the kitchen wall cabinets and put up shelves after the house was finished using a hammer drill and plastic anchors with no problems. You don't want to put a lot of horizontal loading on this kind of mounting but vertical loading on these walls is no problem. I don't know why your father-in-law is so dead set against a standard Thai construction technique. To reassure yourself take a tour of some houses under construction and see what they are doing.
Pumps on the city water supply are illegal, not that it's never done. The normal way is to have the supply fill a ground level holding tank and then pump out of that. Some people do build in-ground concrete tanks or bury their plastic tanks. But keep in mind that city water is pretty crappy here and you need to drain and clean the tank periodically.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Thank You Guys for the very usefull advice.I will keep print and keep the information at hand while I propose information to my father in law thru my wife.I'm sure he wont disagree just doesn't understand falang process of building.We can discuss and if he doesn't want to proceed as I wish then I will find another builder.He is a nice man and will most likely do however I suggest and then we can both learn from each others techniques.Fremmel yes I saw a house right down by father in laws place being built with the larger,thin concrete blocks although it was only one layer thick outside walls.He mentioned that the concrete blocks were not strong and would be better built with the red bricks and then rendered.Perhaps that is the only way he has ever built a house as I'm sure he has never built a house for a farang.Thanks again for all your suggestions especially yours Fremmel as they have been spot on how I hoped to build our house!SammyG
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Sounds like a few besser blocks could be needed over there. Nothing worse than having to chase in concrete walls.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Sounds like a few besser blocks could be needed over there. Nothing worse than having to chase in concrete walls.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
I built my house with the exterior walls out of superblock with only the stucco like covering they trowel on it. The c-pac roof has the reflective membrane under it, there is good air ventilation at the roof peaks and 3 inches of fiberglass insulation on top of the ceiling.
When the air con guy came to give me an estimate I disagreed with his recommendations on the BTU's needed for each room. Basically, I went with about 1/2 of what he recommended and I don't regret it. The house is dramatically cooler than houses made from concrete blocks or red bricks with the pressure cooker roofs that have no heat releasing ventilation.
The walls remain cool to the touch even when the sun shines on them. As a comparison, the perimeter wall around the property is too hot to touch.
The electricity, cable, and telephone are in conduits in the walls coming down from above the ceiling. The plumbing is built into the floors and walls. Both systems are primitive in comparison to US building codes, but they are adequate, and because labor is so cheap tearing up a cement floor or wall is no big deal except for the inconvenience. Because the electrical system is so primitive I had safety cut GFI installed on the whole electrical panel. I highly recommend this.
When the air con guy came to give me an estimate I disagreed with his recommendations on the BTU's needed for each room. Basically, I went with about 1/2 of what he recommended and I don't regret it. The house is dramatically cooler than houses made from concrete blocks or red bricks with the pressure cooker roofs that have no heat releasing ventilation.
The walls remain cool to the touch even when the sun shines on them. As a comparison, the perimeter wall around the property is too hot to touch.
The electricity, cable, and telephone are in conduits in the walls coming down from above the ceiling. The plumbing is built into the floors and walls. Both systems are primitive in comparison to US building codes, but they are adequate, and because labor is so cheap tearing up a cement floor or wall is no big deal except for the inconvenience. Because the electrical system is so primitive I had safety cut GFI installed on the whole electrical panel. I highly recommend this.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
I had the same trouble with the AC guys. They weren't happy that I only put 9,000 BTUs in a 25 sqm bedroom or 12,000 in the 50 sqm open kitchen/dining room/living room. I'm also glad I decided against the much more expensive inverter models. The payback period would have been at least 10 or 15 years.
Sammyg, red brick walls have been the traditional way of building walls here before concrete block and AAC blocks came out and Thais can be very reluctant to try something new. It's possible a brick wall is stronger than block, though these aren't the fired brick we're used to, but so what? The walls aren't structural and the block is certainly strong enough. I didn't price it out but I'd be surprised if brick isn't more expensive, both in terms of material and labor, than block.
Sammyg, red brick walls have been the traditional way of building walls here before concrete block and AAC blocks came out and Thais can be very reluctant to try something new. It's possible a brick wall is stronger than block, though these aren't the fired brick we're used to, but so what? The walls aren't structural and the block is certainly strong enough. I didn't price it out but I'd be surprised if brick isn't more expensive, both in terms of material and labor, than block.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Thanks Guys for the info. very helpful! UdonExpat did you build your exterior walls using double superblock with an air gap between or just 1 layer thick?Also did you use any insulation in between exterior walls?I would guess if you just did one thickness of superblock the answer would be NO.My friend was using double superblock with additional steel studs,insulation and then sheetrock.I want to get the most bang for the buck (keeping house cool)as does everyone and Fremmel has acheived this with building double large concrete blocks exterior walls with 2"insulation between them.UdonExpat It sounds as if you used concrete blocks on inside walls divier walls that you ran electrical into correct as it has hollow space for such?How did you run plumbing pipes and drains within the superblock walls on exterior walls even though they were brought up thru the floors into the walls?I like the idea of going thru the ceiling area with electrical.Fremmel I was also wondering if it was hard running pipes and electrical within the inside single concrete blocks when you need to stagger the blocks for strength and support and perhaps that is why you brought the electrical up from the floor area as it was closer for plug-ins,drians,pipes and lining up the inside block space areas?I agree that the blocks would go up faster and provide space for the utilities over the bricks and I also do not like the little bricks and will explain this to father in law that I wont use them.It sounds as if the AC Folks are just trying to double their profits with the farang pocket books.
Re: Superblock or Q-Con for building and Price?
Only the plumbing comes up through the floor. The electrical comes down from above. The voids in the concrete blocks don't run all the way through. The openings are only on one edge so the blocks have to be cut for both the plumbing and electrical. You can probably get a much clearer picture of how all this is done by finding a house under construction that has the conduit in the walls but hasn't been plastered yet. You'll be able to see how they put in both the plumbing and the conduit.
In defense of the AC guys, most houses here are built with little or no insulation so the normal BTU requirements are much higher. When it comes time to specify what size you want installed you'll have to figure that out for yourself because they won't have the training to factor in the insulation.
In defense of the AC guys, most houses here are built with little or no insulation so the normal BTU requirements are much higher. When it comes time to specify what size you want installed you'll have to figure that out for yourself because they won't have the training to factor in the insulation.