Insulation

[38nholding]

As we will be returning to Thailand in the future to do some renovations on the WIFES house,lol, one of the first things I think I need to do is put about a foot of fiberglass insulation (yecccch)in the "attic", and hopefully a couple of those large, round,spinning, aluminum heat extractors in the roof, as well larger vents on either ends of the home. This topic may have been kicked to death. It just seems to make sense to insulate against heat or cold.But I'm just a dumb farang eh.Also there is a new "green insulation out , good r factor , but not fiberglass? Anyone heard of it .
Any ides greatly appreiated

[homer]

Happened on to a Thai site about a month ago. The companies name is ARC. They do pvc windows primarily, but they also do spray insulation with a foam polyurethane. Can't attest to the quality of the company because I haven't used them, but being an insulator, I can tell you that your R factor is going to be considerably higher per inch of thickness than with a fibreglas. The other option is styrofoam panels, again a higher R factor but can be cost prohibitive, at least in Canada. I know they're available in Thailand but have no idea what the costs run there.

[mortiboy]

I see somewhere they sell large square blocks of inulation foam.(I forget where)Thought maybe good Idea place against windows when sun comes around west side of house.
The glass is so hot you cant bear your hand on it!

[bluejets]

Just wondering if anyone here proposing to use fibreglass insulation have seen what it is like a few years after it has been installed. I have, and it is not a very user friendly material. If you think it itches when it is all new and fluffy, wait until it has had some time up there in the attic sucking up dust and debris. Take a torch up there and let the beam shine through the darkness and then give the glass wool a bit of a pat here and there. Plumes of microscopic glass fibres errupt into the air and into your lungs too I would imagine. As a lecky, I won't go near the stuff.

[BkkBill]

I see somewhere they sell large square blocks of inulation foam.(I forget where)Thought maybe good Idea place against windows when sun comes around west side of house.
The glass is so hot you cant bear your hand on it!

I think you would be a lot better off shading from the outside optimizing shading is probably the best solution for walls and windows, As for the attic I think you are right to extract the heat as much as possible. Aluminum radiant barrier under the roof tiles although there has been a lot of debate at times is in my opinion good and with fiberglass ceiling insulation should end up being the best for the money.

[homer]

Just wondering if anyone here proposing to use fibreglass insulation have seen what it is like a few years after it has been installed. I have, and it is not a very user friendly material. If you think it itches when it is all new and fluffy, wait until it has had some time up there in the attic sucking up dust and debris. Take a torch up there and let the beam shine through the darkness and then give the glass wool a bit of a pat here and there. Plumes of microscopic glass fibres errupt into the air and into your lungs too I would imagine. As a lecky, I won't go near the stuff.

All too true. Fibreglas insulation úsed to have it's purpose, but I wouldn't think of installing or removing the stuff without a proper mask. There's a lot of different products out there now that are a better alternative. Cost is sometimes the determining factor though.

[RLTrader]

The insulation I used comes in a foil wrap or bag. But yes its fiberglass inside. Main reason I installed my self, didn't trust them to close the bag when its cut to fit. Plus I had enough experience with the craftsmanship here in Udon, to know I would regret having them do the install.

That said I don't dare look up there, but I bet its hot.

[bluejets]

A note of caution about insulation containing any amount of foil. This is aluminium based and as such,it is conductive.
There has been a massive rush downunder to install insulation given the government has offered "free money" to do so. As a result, every Tom, Dick and Harry are professing to be "professional installers" when in fact there is no such a monkey. Some have been installing aluminium foil and as a result, two people have been electrocuted. One fatally and one with a big hole in his leg where he knelt on a water pipe while touching the foil.
Same warning for sisolation.(foil on exterior walls before cladding.) Once again the advice, fit safety switch to all circuits.

[Ray.Charles]

I am building a small house in a village: 10m X 5m downstairs, and 8m X 5m upstairs. Downstairs walls are made from concrete (?) blocks (inexpensive), plastered with cement, typical for this village. Upstairs walls are wood studs covered by wood siding on the outside, also typical for this village. The roof is made of steel sheets (very expensive) over the wood roof rafters. There is no separate flat ceiling under the roof because I like the openness of a cathedral-type ceiling, and also because it would be easier to exhaust the hot air from the living space. Given these features, I have to decide now how to lower the heat intake into the living space.
For downstairs, I would use a reflective paint if one would advice me on their effectiveness and the source/brand of that type of paint.
For upstairs wall, I plan to use insulation between the studs and cover that with smart-board. The studs are only 6cm deep, which more or less rules out fiberglass bats. Suggestions?
For the upstairs ceiling, I plan to cover the rafters either with smart-board or with wood strips (expensive good looks). Suggestions on what to use between the roof rafters under the steel roof?

[homer]

I am building a small house in a village: 10m X 5m downstairs, and 8m X 5m upstairs. Downstairs walls are made from concrete (?) blocks (inexpensive), plastered with cement, typical for this village. Upstairs walls are wood studs covered by wood siding on the outside, also typical for this village. The roof is made of steel sheets (very expensive) over the wood roof rafters. There is no separate flat ceiling under the roof because I like the openness of a cathedral-type ceiling, and also because it would be easier to exhaust the hot air from the living space. Given these features, I have to decide now how to lower the heat intake into the living space.
For downstairs, I would use a reflective paint if one would advice me on their effectiveness and the source/brand of that type of paint.
For upstairs wall, I plan to use insulation between the studs and cover that with smart-board. The studs are only 6cm deep, which more or less rules out fiberglass bats. Suggestions?
For the upstairs ceiling, I plan to cover the rafters either with smart-board or with wood strips (expensive good looks). Suggestions on what to use between the roof rafters under the steel roof?

R.C., You're looking at a bit over 2"of depth. Styrofoam or polyurethane comes in 1"and up to 4" thickness. The r-factor for this product is 3.4 per inch, which means you would easily get 6.8 to 7 as an r-factor It comes. in 4x8 sheets, so it's just a matter of cutting it to size. If you're planning on gluing it in place, make sure you use a water based product as stryofoam will melt if it comes in contact with thinners used in a lot of glues/paints.

[Ray.Charles]

Homer, where should I find the foam boards…..Global House, alternatives? For gluing, I am assuming that I will find glue cartridges and a gun.
Would you recommend using some reflecting material in addition to the boards, especially under the roof?

[38nholding]

Well lots of answers , but yes ,fiberglass insulation is somewhat itchy and a mask should be used.But it is very widely used in western countries to keep the cold out. Once it is place we should not have to go up there to "give it a pat." 12 inches of fiberglass insulation should bring the heat level of the house down, better than nothing. Putting your hand on the drywalled cieling about 4 p.m lets one know something should be done. Insulation is cheap and readily avaliable.
Has anyone installed those large silver/ aluminum heat extractors?

[bluejets]

Roofing iron will litterally get hot enough to cook an egg and I think any form of foam sheeting will probably melt. I have accidentally brushed against iron such as this in the height of summer and managed to get minor burns.
From your description it sounds like a cathedral ceiling i.e. rafters, then ceiling sheet, then roof battons with finally the roofing iron. I think the only alternative is to run sisolation. This is normally as used on exterior walls and only about 100 thou thick.There is another type with about 30mm thick glass fibre wool that you install with the glass fibre uppermost and therefore foil down. As it goes over the battons, it compresses to almost nothing so the roofing iron sits almost as it would without anything there. I was in a ceiling like this only a few weeks ago (weather starting to get pretty warm here) and I was surprised as to how cool it was inside. To my way of thinking, the heat is not being allowed to penetrate to begin with rather than allow it to beam in like there is no tomorrow and then decide what to do with it.

[bluejets]

Well lots of answers , but yes ,fiberglass insulation is somewhat itchy and a mask should be used.But it is very widely used in western countries to keep the cold out. Once it is place we should not have to go up there to "give it a pat." 12 inches of fiberglass insulation should bring the heat level of the house down, better than nothing.

Well, I can only say it is obvious you have never had to work up there. I would imagine you would be the first to complain if you were charged extra to cover the cost of protective work gear for whomever had to. Perhaps think again and don't let the heat in to begin with.

[Techland]

Confusing post to me. As for the wool mat, this one will be put on top of the room ceiling with the foil up, so that heatwaves from the roof/tiles are reflected. After laying these out on the attic they have to be taped together so that there is no air circulation happening between the lanes. Preventing air circulation is the basic work principle of these materials. With the foil down (on the ceiling) it will loose a lot of its effectiveness.

[bluejets]

Confusing post to me. As for the wool mat, this one will be put on top of the room ceiling with the foil up, so that heatwaves from the roof/tiles are reflected. After laying these out on the attic they have to be taped together so that there is no air circulation happening between the lanes. Preventing air circulation is the basic work principle of these materials. With the foil down (on the ceiling) it will loose a lot of its effectiveness.

The idea behind laying with the glass wool uppermost is to provide a layer of air between the foil and the roof sheeting. If you check you will find that air is the best insulator.This is what all these insulating materials set out to achieve in the first place.The foil will still reflect any heat just the same.

[Farang1]

What about the blown insulation. Not sure what it is made of but, had it blown into my attic in a house in San Diego. Made a big difference in the temps inside the house. A few years later, I had some work to do in the attic. It didn't seem to cause the itchy-scratches that you get from fiberglass.

[bluejets]

What about the blown insulation. Not sure what it is made of but, had it blown into my attic in a house in San Diego. Made a big difference in the temps inside the house. A few years later, I had some work to do in the attic. It didn't seem to cause the itchy-scratches that you get from fiberglass.

Apparently some type of fire retarded wool or paper compound. Works fine. Drawbacks are that adding to electrical circuits can be a nightmare as one has to completely remove the stuff and trace ones way through the entire cabling run to see where it goes. Junction boxes disappear under it and also transformers for LV lights(which generate a LOT of heat) There are isolation barriers available that leckys have to fit to overcome this and some other problems, but you can be sure that if none are there because of "home handyman install",the insulation mob won't fit them.Wherever there are downlights or ceiling exhaust fans, the stuff blows down through the ventilation appartures also.

[RLTrader]

I see most of the posts are from out of country. Its been awhile, but when I looked for insulation, the only thing I can remember seeing is the fiberglass in foil bags, so there is no up or down, for its the same on all sides.

In the states they had those styrofoam sheets, 4' x 8' and 2' x 4' both blue and pink, great for lining the concrete foundation in the ground, but have not seen it here in thailand. Thats the trouble with outside the country info, you might not find the product here.

What you might find in the Bangkok area, might not be in the Udon area also, for I know of people including myself, that had to order stuff from Bangkok, so you had to add time and shipping to the cost.

[arjay]

What I have mainly seen in Udon (in Home Pro) is:-

>the reflective foil on rolls, for positioning directly under roof tiles

>rolls of fibreglass type insulation, wrapped/sandwiched by a casing of reflective foil/material, for laying in the roof space

>and some squares of reflective material (outer) with a thin filling, (rather like carpet tiles), - the latter designed to be used on suspended ceilings.

I have also seen the spray on expanding foam stuff used in some locations.