EPL Banter Thread

[mathusalah80]

Completion of Round 30 marked the full return of the EPL, albeit with a changed format which,
as was to be expected, has it’s critics. Sadly, for me, I will remember it as the dreariest, most uninspiring round of matches I have witnessed since the inception of the EPL.
I exclude the performances of three clubs from my criticism. City put on a brilliant exhibition of football in the second half in defeating a less than impressive Arsenal. City’s performance re-enforced the view of some,, including me, that Liverpool are going to find it hard to successfully resist City’s EPL title challenge, next season.
The second team performance which impressed me was was that of Newcastle in the defeat of top six contender Sheffield. After, earlier in the season, appearing likely to be in a battle against relegation, this victory marked the fifth consecutive win, under the management of old favourite Steve Bruce, putting to rest any relegation fears. Sadly, for Sheffield, the defeat appears to me to end any hopes of the club ending the season in the top six. In fact, a look at the club's remaining matches suggests it might end up very close to being relegated!
The workmanlike performance of Wolves, in disposing of West Ham, combined with the consistency evident in the season to date identifies the club as serious contenders to beat several more illustrious clubs in grabbing the sixth spot, and a place in Europe. Doubtless Billy Wright will be using whatever influence he has ‘up above’ to turn that possibility into a reality!
As to the remaining matches. For a squad of players, arguably, at least equal in both depth and talent as those of Liverpool & City, Utd’s performance against a Spurs team devoid of offering even the remotest of threats, was inexcusable. To state the obvious, there must be a reason for the continuing under performance of such a talented squad of players. Solskjjaer, for his own survival, and for the benefit of the club, urgently needs to identify and solve the problem.
The Liverpool players allowed themselves to be caught up in what seemed more like a dogfight than a football match. For that I think a large part of the blame must rest on the shoulders of Kl opp, who, seemingly at half time, did not identify to his players the problem, and exert his usual control to get them to revert to the team’s usual reliance on their skills,, rather than physical strength. However, Mane was absolutely outstanding and I consider his was the best individual performance of this Round. The mach confirmed to me my personal suspicion Liverpool will need to strength the squad with the addition of at least three high quality players, if the club is to have any chance of retaining the EPL title next season.
Notwithstanding the win, Palace was unimpressive, as were the performances of the Chelsea players against relegation bound Villa.
I have my doubts that Leicester will be able to retain all it's star players come season’s close; therefore unlikely next season, to continue to maintain the current challenge it offers against the other main title contenders. Of course, that situation could change, in the event of the Thai owners being prepared to pour a further substantial amount of money into the club.
Lampard has put together an impressive squad. It appears certain the club will acquire a further two, or even three players of international standard, in the close season. On that basis, the club should certainly be considered as a serious title contender, next season. Meantime, Lampard's personal challenge is to find the right mix of his current players to mould into a team which will ensure the club secures the fourth spot, this season.
My opinion of the likely top six, come the end of the season? In chronological order: Liverpool, City, Leicester, Chelsea, Utd and Wolves.

[stattointhailand]

"The Leicester team was unimpressive against BHA"

Hope whoever sold you the crystal ball was a bull sh*tter mat ............. Leicester v Brighton doesnt kick off for another 10 minutes

[stattointhailand]

Where did you get that crystal ball mat?
is it any good at lottery numbers?

[mathusalah80]

Leicester 0 BHA 0 !! Oh yea of little faith. NOW read my comments regarding Leicester, and admit you were proved wrong.

Seriously, I have waded through my copious, and admittedly messy, notes of the Round 30 matches and have identified how the mix up occurred. The opening sentence of the seventh paragraph should have referred only to Palace & Chelsea , with additional comments relative to the former which I overlooked to include. My subsequent comments about Leicester are as per my notes, and correctly mirror my opinion although, to be grammatically correct, they should have appeared separately. as paragraph 8. (which of course would know! )

I have no doubt that all those football fans who, like me, experienced the pleasure of reading the regular insightful comments and interesting reviews posted by yourself and Zidine, before you both absconded to the more intellectually challenging, alleged football threads, now operating under the stewardship of Messrs. 747/taxifor/dezzer/GT93 , would be delighted if you both would post, even occasionally, your views on the EPL or domestic cups competitions, as you did in the past.
With some reluctance and trepidation I opened this thread at the suggestion of a small group of seriously minded, adult fans, who wanted to have one more try at having a football thread for the use of the Forum's serious fans. I spent considerable time & effort in putting together the lengthy opening post in an effort to kick start this thread. I admit I hold the view all my effort will prove to be a total waste of time. This because I feel certain that the aforesaid foursome, most particularly the ever trolling GT93 with his finely tuned penchant for deliberately stirring up unpleasantness (and then 'disappearing' , ), will be unable to resist destroying this thread, in the same manner as it's predecessors. Sadly their history, in relation to football threads, indicates they are certain of success.

'She who must be obeyed' , has issued a peremptory order that I finish working on this 'project' immediately because, she says, she has discerned a noticeable deterioration in my health. So, goodbye & good luck to one & all for the next couple of weeks or so.

[mathusalah80]

Where did you get that crystal ball mat?
is it any good at lottery numbers?

Just a quick answer, before I am ordered off to bed.
I have been playing Australian Lotto for about 50 years, and have had one A$400 win.
Does that answer your question?
Perhaps might be more successful paying the football pools. Are they still running, or cancelled because of an inability to compete against Lotto?
Way back in the last century I have a vague recollection that the maximum prize possible to win was 75,000. Hell, I am getting old.

[samster]

I agree that the EPL restart has been a little anti-climactic. With the exception of City, the football has been uninspiring.

Last nights games were dull and predictable. Palace and Sheff were always going to get a hammering with the former showing absolutely zero attacking intent. Neither team had anything to lose yet they still sat back and invited Man U and Liverpool on to them. Without the crowd to liven things up, it was boring.

Re Lampard Mat, I dont think he can take any credit for putting the squad together. I think he's a massively overrated coach/manager illustrated by his failings at Derby last year. In my opinion, both Wolves and Man U will finish above them.

Finally, the water breaks are a joke.

[mathusalah80]

I agree that the EPL restart has been a little anti-climactic. With the exception of City, the football has been uninspiring.
Last nights games were dull and predictable. Palace and Sheff were always going to get a hammering with the former showing absolutely zero attacking intent. Neither team had anything to lose yet they still sat back and invited Man U and Liverpool on to them. Without the crowd to liven things up, it was boring.
Re Lampard Mat, I don't think he can take any credit for putting the squad together. I think he's a massively overrated coach/manager illustrated by his failings at Derby last year. In my opinion, both Wolves and Man U will finish above them.
Finally, the water breaks are a joke.

Respectfully, I am in total disagreement regarding your criticisms of Lampard. The intensity of your dislike came as a surprise, leading me to wonder if there exists additional reasons for it, other than as appears in your post?
I think , since you have raised the topic, it would be of interest to summarize Lampard's management career to date, together with an assessment of his potential. I think it will highlight the injustice you do him in your criticism, and perhaps provoke a change of mind? You be the judge.
He managed Derby for a total of 57 games, ending with a win ratio of just over 42%. He guided them to the Championships playoffs,( before being eliminated, at Wembley, by Leeds, by the odd goal ), and to the third and fourth rounds of the League & FA Cup competitions, including a shock win over Manchester Utd.. His performance n his first post at senior management level drew universal praise, and led to Chelsea's decision to sack a vastly experienceก and internationally respected manager in Conte, and appoint 'management trainee' Lampard as the club's, new manager. Not a bad record for a manager you feel to have been a failure!
His Chelsea appointment was on the clear understanding that no money would be available to him until after this current season, and that he would be facing, from among the current squad, the seemingly impossible tasks of replacing the irreplaceable Hazard , and of finding a pathway enabling the club to be engaged in Europe next season.
Daunting challenges for even the best, and most experienced of managers.
The current League position of the club, alone speaks volumes for the transformation Lampard has already achieved. The change in body language, discipline and commitment of the players was never more evident than in the pulsating win over City. Lampard's first major, and brave decision, (much criticised in some quarters), immediately to offload David Luiz has proved justified, (ask the long suffering Arsenal supporters!), as has his decision to draft into the first team, at various times, EIGHT Academy players. Three of them, namely Abrahams, Mount and Gilmour, are already being spoken of as certainties for the next England squad, as is Barkley, who Lampard appears to nurtured back to the confidence and form he displayed at the start of his Premiership career.
In further response to your criticism, it is true that Lampard, rightly, is receiving a great deal of praise for what he has achieved at Chelsea so far. But, far from being overrated, he is still referred to as showing great managerial promise, but which he is still only in the transitional stage of fulfilling. Finishing in the top four this season; presenting a serious challenge for the Premiership title season, and getting Chelsea to at least the later stages of the European Cup next season, (all of which I think he will achieve), should establish his right to be considered to be among the best .
That Guardiola has publicly stated his high regard for Lampard's potential; that Werner has chosen to sign for Chelsea, in preference to the many high profile clubs which have been chasing him, as also has Ziyeck, (and now possibly also Havertz), and that Willian has done an about face in signing a new one year contract, should all greatly encourage Lampard to continue to have faith in his abilities, and to ignore his critics.
Incidentally Samster, I am prepared to state categorically that neither Utd nor Wolves will overtake Chelsea, in the Premiership and, indeed, that it is looking increasingly possible that Chelsea will finish in third position, unless Leicester's current form improves.
To finish on a high note, I am in total agreement with you Samster, regarding the water breaks which, as a staunch believer that football should be played as was originally intended, I find embarrassing. Should the Forum's leading football statistician, Statts, (who undoubtedly will be thoroughly combing this post , in the hope of finding a mistake on my part ), be prepared to undertake the task, It would be extremely interesting to learn the approximate number of minutes, of the ninety, the ball is actually in play. This, after taking into account the official and the unofficial stoppages, both real and virtual. Examples of these include, (slowly taken goal kicks,free kicks penalties & throw ins, feigned injuries, NOT requiring the trainer to be called upon, and prolonged protests to the referee. There are also the considerations of the mother of all carefully extended delays in the carrying out of TEN substitutions and similarly the official time of the drinks breaks!!!

[samster]

Are you a Chelsea fan Mat?

I've no intense dislike for Lampard. When he was playing I thought he was a thoroughbred, especially when compared to Gerrard who, in my humble opinion, was one of the most overrated players of all time.

I speak as someone who watched him at Derby last year. He had, arguably, the best squad in the Championship including Mount, Wilson and Tomori but only scraped into the play offs in the final minutes of the last game of the season having never challenged for promotion. Their football was predictable and they were exposed against better technical teams.

In the play offs they were given a lesson over 170 of the 180 minutes against Leeds and, then stunk the final out.

This year, he has been in a win/win situation at Chelsea with no expectation due to the transfer ban but I have seen nothing to suggest that, tactically, he has anything different to offer. Contemporary greats such as Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp and Bielsa have a distinct style as do lesser lights such as Wilder, Nuno and, even Warnock . I've yet to see that with Lampard but, I concede, he is young so might develop.

We will see but, I think when we revisit in a couple of years he will be a Sky pundit rather than a Manager.

[GT93]

"The Leicester team was unimpressive against BHA"

Hope whoever sold you the crystal ball was a bull sh*tter mat ............. Leicester v Brighton doesnt kick off for another 10 minutes

That's bloody funny. And then it's edited out?

[mathusalah80]

1.Are you a Chelsea fan Mat?

2.I speak as someone who watched him at Derby last year. He had, arguably, the best squad in the Championship including Mount, Wilson and Tomori but only scraped into the play offs in the final minutes of the last game of the season having never challenged for promotion. Their football was predictable and they were exposed against better technical teams. In the play offs they were given a lesson over 170 of the 180 minutes against Leeds and, then stunk the final out.

3 This year, he has been in a win/win situation at Chelsea with no expectation due to the transfer ban but I have seen nothing to suggest that, tactically, he has anything different to offer. Contemporary greats such as Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp and Bielsa have a distinct style as do lesser lights such as Wilder, Nuno and, even Warnock . I've yet to see that with Lampard but, I concede, he is young so might develop.

4.We will see but, I think when we revisit in a couple of years he will be a Sky pundit rather than a Manager.

1. No! For my sins, I have been,a ( mostly a suffering ) Spurs supporter for well over 60 years!
2. My general opinion of his Derby performance was formed only from the statistics which I am well aware can give misleading impressions. Obviously I accept your opinion, because it is based upon first hand knowledge, not hearsay.
3. I think you are being extremely unfair in making a comparison between a rookie first year Premier league manager and the managers of vast international experience & success which you have listed. As to the rest, you have stated the obvious with the exception of your opening comment suggesting Lampard started the season in a win/win situation. I think he started, and remains, under extreme pressure to 'produce the goods, in some form or other,this first season.
4.I believe, and sincerely hope, you are wrong.

[mathusalah80]

The hugely contrasting games played last night, completed the Round 32 matches .
In the first, the the less written about this latest abject performances of the Spurs players, and their manager , the better. They can be considered fortunate only six games remain, so they are unlikely to have to face the humiliation of becoming embroiled in the relegation battle. Contrast this to the commendable over performance of the unfashionable Sheffield players, throughout the season. Are they going to find themselves in the dizzy heights of playing in Europe next season?
After what had gone before, it was heavenly to sit back and watch the battle of the Titans. I felt from the outset that, although the teams appeared evenly match, the Liverpool players and, most noticeably Klopp seemed unusually subdued . Undoubtedly the result will bring forth a multitude of differing views, and widely diverging interpretations, of the match, both from the media 'experts' , and us amateur reporters. Ultimately, City was by far the better team, and handed out an unexpected thrashing to the newly crowned Champions. The performance would also have served as a timely reminder, to the other Champions League aspirants, of why City remain the favourites to lift the trophy.
Arguably, the two best performances, in this round, were WHUs' shock defeat of Chelsea, and Newcastle's emphatic win over Bournemouth, to continue on their unbeaten run of five matches.
Some might consider this Newcastle result routine and expected; but that would be to ignore the early season relegation prospects facing the club, and the remarkable improvement brought about under the astute management of the wily Steve Bruce.
The West Ham players performance, against Chelsea, was as magnificent as it was unexpected. they spent almost the whole of the match as expected; that is, being completely overrun by a far superior set of very talented players. However, almost entirely on stubbornness, and a fierce determination to defy the odds and not lose, they achieved the seemingly impossible feat of winning this unwinnable match. A win, furthermore, which could make the difference between relegation and survival.
Everton contributed to the increasing woes of Leicester, and Ings continued on his merry way, in Southampton's predictable victory over a Watford team which, despite the unquestioned commitment of the players, now seems doomed.
As result of Leicester's serious loss of form; the rapidly improving cohesion & form of the Utd. squad, and the looming threat of the underrated Wolves, there are now four clubs chasing the two remaining Champions League spots. Possibly even three if City's latest appeal fails.
Now, on to Round 33

[mathusalah80]

Glen Hoddle recently commented that, to him, two of the most fascinating aspects of football, were it’s unpredictability, and lack of logic. At the time, he was exemplifying his viewpoint by citing the totally unexpected ease of Liverpool’s capture of the EPL title, and the record margin by which the club emphasized it’s superiority over it’s nearest rivals, Utd.; the outgoing Champions, which shared with Liverpool, the title of the EPL clubs having the deepest and most talented squads, in the EPL.
On the other side of this coin was the inexplicably poor season experienced by City, including eight defeats, (never before experienced by Guardiola in his distinguished career), and yet, included among City’s topsy turvey results, was the 4-0 thrashing meted out to Champions elect, Liverpool!
Who can argue against the merits, and validity, of Hoddles’s comments, which were given further credence, by some of the results, in the last couple of rounds.
I refer, specifically, to, Liverpool 1 v Burnley 1; Sheffield 3 v Chelsea 0; Bournemouth 4 v Leicester 1;
Arsenal 2 v Liverpool 1,and Palace 2 v Utd. 0.
So. in the face of that evidence, what the hell criteria should be used to forecast the top five and bottom three, come end of season?
Well. my solution is that I am going to take a little predictability; add little logic, and a large lump of personal emotion, in my forecasting. Of course, I face a huge advantage over the vast majority of so called professional commentators and football fans is that my love of football comes first, and far, far ahead of any misplaced or blind loyalty to any one club.
Seemingly, there exists a pick of any two of Watford, Bournemouth & Villa, to fill the remaining relegation spots, with Watford currently holding a two points advantage. While the remaining fixtures might suggest Villa could overtake Bournemouth, I think Bournemouth are more likely, and are more quipped to resist any challenge Villa might mount. I think Bournemouth are the most talented of the three squads, and more worthy of staying in the EPL. Unfortunately, I cannot seem them making up the two point deficit, even in this unpredictable season. So Norwich, Villa & Bournemouth for relegation.
I am guessing third, fourth and fifth spots, will be decided by the results of two games; t that of the 37th round match involving Liverpool & Chelsea and the 38th round match between Chelsea & Wolves.
Certainly impossible to apply any logic, so I am going with my gut and my persona preference.. in selecting the first five will be: Liverpool; City; Chelsea; Utd and Leicester.

[Drunk Monkey]

Glen Hoddle recently commented that, to him, two of the most fascinating aspects of football, were it’s unpredictability, and lack of logic. At the time, he was exemplifying his viewpoint by citing the totally unexpected ease of Liverpool’s capture of the EPL title, and the record margin by which the club emphasized it’s superiority over it’s nearest rivals, Utd.; the outgoing Champions, which shared with Liverpool, the title of the EPL clubs having the deepest and most talented squads, in the EPL.
On the other side of this coin was the inexplicably poor season experienced by City, including eight defeats, (never before experienced by Guardiola in his distinguished career), and yet, included among City’s topsy turvey results, was the 4-0 thrashing meted out to Champions elect, Liverpool!
Who can argue against the merits, and validity, of Hoddles’s comments, which were given further credence, by some of the results, in the last couple of rounds.
I refer, specifically, to, Liverpool 1 v Burnley 1; Sheffield 3 v Chelsea 0; Bournemouth 4 v Leicester 1;
Arsenal 2 v Liverpool 1,and Palace 2 v Utd. 0.
So. in the face of that evidence, what the hell criteria should be used to forecast the top five and bottom three, come end of season?
Well. my solution is that I am going to take a little predictability; add little logic, and a large lump of personal emotion, in my forecasting. Of course, I face a huge advantage over the vast majority of so called professional commentators and football fans is that my love of football comes first, and far, far ahead of any misplaced or blind loyalty to any one club.
Seemingly, there exists a pick of any two of Watford, Bournemouth & Villa, to fill the remaining relegation spots, with Watford currently holding a two points advantage. While the remaining fixtures might suggest Villa could overtake Bournemouth, I think Bournemouth are more likely, and are more quipped to resist any challenge Villa might mount. I think Bournemouth are the most talented of the three squads, and more worthy of staying in the EPL. Unfortunately, I cannot seem them making up the two point deficit, even in this unpredictable season. So Norwich, Villa & Bournemouth for relegation.
I am guessing third, fourth and fifth spots, will be decided by the results of two games; t that of the 37th round match involving Liverpool & Chelsea and the 38th round match between Chelsea & Wolves.
Certainly impossible to apply any logic, so I am going with my gut and my persona preference.. in selecting the first five will be: Liverpool; City; Chelsea; Utd and Leicester.

wrong way round Math .. ManU 2 Palace 0

[Drunk Monkey]

Looking at the EPL table coming to the end of a strange season with regard to the teams at the top and bottom its all looks rather predicable .. with the exception of the huge margin of Liverpools winning points tally and excellent seasons from Sheff Utd and Wolves.. its as you were and expected to be.

DM

[mathusalah80]

Looking at the EPL table coming to the end of a strange season with regard to the teams at the top and bottom its all looks rather predicable .. with the exception of the huge margin of Liverpool's winning points tally and excellent seasons from Sheff Utd and Wolves.. its as you were and expected to be.

DM.
My deliberate (?) mistake well spotted. Just my luck to choose to post on one of those rare days you hadn't indulged in your favourite beverage
Wholeheartedly agree with your comments regarding Sheffield & Wolves but, at an admittedly less ethereal level, I think those perennial fighters against relegation, namely the Palace and Brighton, are well deserving of a mention for, once again, surviving against all the odds. .
My CLUBMEN of the year are are Pope, (who could forget his goalkeeper maser class; except Gareth Southgate! );
James Vardy; Deeley , Shelvey and Mark Noble. It is all too often overlooked that it is the players, such as these that form the backbone of the League.
With news of more shock results coming in, it could now well be the case the final 4-6 positions could be decided on goal average

[Drunk Monkey]

Looking at the EPL table coming to the end of a strange season with regard to the teams at the top and bottom its all looks rather predicable .. with the exception of the huge margin of Liverpool's winning points tally and excellent seasons from Sheff Utd and Wolves.. its as you were and expected to be.

DM.
My deliberate (?) mistake well spotted. Just my luck to choose to post on one of those rare days you hadn't indulged in your favourite beverage
Wholeheartedly agree with your comments regarding Sheffield & Wolves but, at an admittedly less ethereal level, I think those perennial fighters against relegation, namely the Palace and Brighton, are well deserving of a mention for, once again, surviving against all the odds. .
My CLUBMEN of the year are are Pope, (who could forget his goalkeeper maser class; except Gareth Southgate! );
James Vardy; Deeley , Shelvey and Mark Noble. It is all too often overlooked that it is the players, such as these that form the backbone of the League.
With news of more shock results coming in, it could now well be the case the final 4-6 positions could be decided on goal average

Never partake in my fav beverage on Sundays Math its the Sabbath , holy day so after my morning church service its a Sunday lunch and my bible reading class followed by scones horlicks and an early night.

Yes got to agree i over looked the achievements of Palace and Brighton ..the latter i had down as certs for relegation.

Pope must be in for an England call ..Pickford isnt that special ...is he ?

Tizz indeed it is very tight for that 4 - 6 finishing positions.

Keep well

DM

[Zidane]

I thoroughly agree with the plaudits given to Chris Wilder at Sheffield United and Graham Potter at Brighton but one name you have overlooked (probably because of trying to spell it) is Ralph Hassenhuttl at Southampton.
In October the Saints were beaten 9-0 at home by Leicester and most clubs would have shown him the door but since then they have revived considerably and have a chance to finish in the top half of the Premiership.
Contrast his fortunes with that of Nigel Pearson at Watford.When he took over in December they were rock bottom with just one win .He has guided them to probable safety with two games left... his reward.... the sack.
It's been a strange season, to put it mildly, and I,ve only watched the odd game since the crowd free restart but for those who think romance in football is dead isn't it lovely that Jose Mourinho took over as the Spurs manager after all the complementary posts mat80 made about him over the years !
London derbies against Charlton and Millwall coming up in a season or two ??

[dunroaming]

I thoroughly agree with the plaudits given to Chris Wilder at Sheffield United and Graham Potter at Brighton but one name you have overlooked (probably because of trying to spell it) is Ralph Hassenhuttl at Southampton.
In October the Saints were beaten 9-0 at home by Leicester and most clubs would have shown him the door but since then they have revived considerably and have a chance to finish in the top half of the Premiership.
Contrast his fortunes with that of Nigel Pearson at Watford.When he took over in December they were rock bottom with just one win .He has guided them to probable safety with two games left... his reward.... the sack.
It's been a strange season, to put it mildly, and I,ve only watched the odd game since the crowd free restart but for those who think romance in football is dead isn't it lovely that Jose Mourinho took over as the Spurs manager after all the complementary posts mat80 made about him over the years !
London derbies against Charlton and Millwall coming up in a season or two ??

There's more to the story with Pearson but I'm sure we will have to wait for a book to come out before we know the truth behind the dressing room bust up.

[mathusalah80]

No, NOT a prediction, just my personal preference upon how I would like the top teams to finish, at the end of the
night!
Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Leicester, Utd., Wolves.
Recalling some of the entertaining football and shock results produced by Bournemouth over the season, I hope they will survive the drop, but I am not very hopeful about their prospects!
Oh yes; I would like Chelsea to win the FA Cup!

[Zidane]

All that now remains is for mat 80 to give his verdict on the season... winners and losers for teams, managers and players.
For me...
Congratulations Liverpool... deserved champion's.
Elated at Man Utd's finish to the season but sad for Leicester.
Sorry to see Bournemouth relegated but Watford got what they deserved sacking Pearson with 2 games to go.
Manager of the season... a 3 way tie between Klopp, Wilder and Hassenhuttll.
For the players, sorry to see David Silva depart. He has given magnificent service to City over many seasons.

Other true footie fans feel free to give there verdicts as well as veteran poster mat.