Odd situation staying south of Udon with electric bill

Post by **2000VIPERGTS** » April 26, 2011, 3:17 pm

Guys, I have a weird one here. I flew over to BKK and now south of Udon at a small hotel that is a Thai resort. It was advertised at 450 Bht a night, and after this we are flying to BKK to stay in the suite at the Concorde Swiss, so I was not expecting luxury. Prior to getting here and booking, we asked if there was an upgrade and were told no, We get here and we are offered an upgrade. I see the upgraded room which is a small 3 bedroom suite, with a kitchen and living room at a modest level of accommodation and I agreed on the offered price of 700 Bht. I did not bargain as frankly this is little money to me. I said we need it until May 8th and again, did not press for a cheaper price as it had a nice little pool and tranquil despite a very small hotel (3 or 4 rooms total). After agreeing, we were then told "plus electric" and me never hearing that a place charged electric asked how much is it. We were told not that much, but me being the business guy I wanted to know more before agreeing to this. This place is a decent size and has 3 air conditioning units, so I know if you crank everything up it can cost some money.

Anyhow, so we are then told about 600 Bht and then we agree. They write meter reading on the bill and I pay in cash in full until May 8th. Prior to this visit we stayed in Udon, but not into the girlie bar scene we went to another location and tried this place as it was different and were doing the lap of luxury in upgraded suite in BKK (8-9000 Bht a night but TOP level one even well below internet price), but anyhow here is the problem. The farang is the owner and we did not converse with him previously, only the TW. The farang says to me on day 1 after we slept over that we ran 2 AC units and the bill will be a lot, but we are paying for it and he does not want us to complain (paraphrasing here) so he wanted us to know the AC units eat a lot of electric. That said, he also added that if we cranked the electric up, the electric bill could be as much or more than the rent! I asked him to check our meter now after he offered to check it in a few days so we are on the same page. I do not mind paying 50 Baht or something for electric, but anyhow the meter is in our room. What is the current KW/hr charge here? I used 40 KW/hr spo far, but I think the pool’s pump is on our electric as the breaker is on our box which is a Seiman’s breaker box and I mentioned this, but he said it is not on the meter, but it is on the box. I can turn this off and see if it stops the meter, but anyhow this is CRAZY for me to even think like this. I make fantastic money and anyhow not feeling real good so looking for advice. I will know what the numbers are when we look at the meter, but anyhow if I know KW/hr price here it will help me. If there ius a problem I will kindly ask for the unused money back for the previous nights as I did not negotiate a room rate for bulk at all and that would be reasonable if this is not meeting our expectations and after all we are the ONLY guests her. A few other things like after we paid they are renting the pool to the neighborhood children and also my fiancée asked for 2 additional towels and were told every two days-lol. Again, I know the pace is cheap, but anyhow please let me know if this sounds crazy or in Thailand this is normal, up to now I only stayed at very nice places other than the place in Udon that is a normal farang hotel that I was happy with and a terrific value for the money. I hope if there is a problem a refund for the unused portion would be forthcoming without issue and if there are issues an effective peaceful resolution (worst case call Thai tourist police as I am a tourist?).

Thanks,

Gary
)

Post by **BobHelm** » April 26, 2011, 3:42 pm

It is quite normal to negotiate paying for a room in a number of different ways in Thailand & negotiating on that to a far higher degree than in the West.
The top hotels in the high density tourist areas apart it is vital that you ask before moving in. It can be from completely 'all in', down to just the room & then paying for EVERYTHING on top.
Everything can be
Electricity
Water
Cleaning
TV
Fridge
Towels & sheets etc.
In addition the charge for most of these items - if separate - will almost certainly be at a premium, that is to say you would be charge more than the rate the owner is charged by a utility service. For example electricity is about 4 baht a unit, a charge of 8 baht would not be seen as excessive. 12 baht is probably starting to get excessive.

Places that are seen as advertising at 5,000 baht a month (for example) almost certainly have restrictions/extras on the room for that price. To be honest it is generally seen as being 'up to the customer' to enquire & discover exactly what is being included in the price.
It is important to discover what cost is going to be charged for additional services.
Air conditioning is potentially a large cost to the owner of a low charge rental accommodation. That is why so many will charge a low amount for the room & charge separately for the electricity. Depending on the cost per unit, this is reasonable for both owner & customer...

Post by **GARYZX6R** » April 26, 2011, 4:34 pm

Yes Gary its the electric thats expensive.I stayed in a 5000 bht room per month and i think it was 7 or 8 bht a unit.Our bill was 1,800 bht for the month,that was with one aircon unit on all night and sometimes during the day and electric shower and tv,fridge. Just give you an idea ..

Post by **trubrit** » April 26, 2011, 4:57 pm

Maybe I could give some insight to this . Unlike most countries , here in Thailand the more units you use the dearer the unit cost. So in a private house the charge may be as low as 4bht, whereas in a mansion room with maybe 30 rooms the combined usage will put the unit cost as high as 12 bht .So each individual room will pay at this rate . There is a maximum that can be charged by the landlord and the Electricity authority will advise you , if asked . Remember each room must have a metered supply which the landlord has to pay the cost of , and pay for usage if the tenant doesn't . So its not another rip off as some think .

Post by **2000VIPERGTS** » April 26, 2011, 5:07 pm

Many thanks, it is it 1000-2000 Baht for 2 weeks, I am fine with that. I just did not want to get into a situation where it is 10,000 Bht and a scam is all-the last thing I want to do is split hairs over stupid things is all. Many thanks for the input, so I am to understand their actual charge is 4-12 Bht for KW/hr or there about? I am thinking through the translator that they want 10 Bht a unit which is 300 Bht a day or so. For 300-500 Bht a day, I will eat it and not get a headache and learn. I want to be reasonable too, really as I own a business myself but what we were told and subsequent is different, so just trying to learn as I do not like battles and even as a Sun Tzu fan, I avoid battles when practical. I went here for a reason, to potentially buy the place but I do not think they have any real idea about this although I mentioned it to the farang owner in passing. I would convert it to a large house and rooms for my friends when the visited possibly, but all good and thank you. Gary

Post by **papaguido** » April 26, 2011, 5:12 pm

You should be asking what the rate per unit is. For the style of accommodation you're staying at I believe the average rate is 7 bt per unit. Also, when you checked in did they take note of the meter reading?

Post by **BobHelm** » April 26, 2011, 5:21 pm

If you are going to run the air con 24/7 then you might want to consider knocking the temperature up a notch or two Gary. They are often set as standard far too low (around the 24 degrees) & eat electricity trying to get down to that temperature.
If it is going to be on all the time then try it at about the 28 degrees mark. Or start a degree higher than it is set & then work up up to a point where you are happy. It takes the moisture out of the air & so feels far cooler than the 'number' & the electricity usage to keep it to that is not so great.

Post by **parrot** » April 26, 2011, 8:01 pm

If I was paying 700 baht for a resort in the Udon area, I wouldn't expect to be paying for the electricity. I've stayed in probably 30 resorts/hotels over the years from Phuket to Maehongson.......we agreed on a price for the room and that included electricity.
To me, this sounds like the airlines advertising 500 baht airfares, but by the time you pay tax title insurance baggage and bathroom fees, you're paying a couple of thousand. If you've paid for the room in advance (?), then you're stuck.....might as well enjoy it and put it behind you.

Post by **fdimike** » April 26, 2011, 8:09 pm

I couldn't agree more with what Parrot is saying. I've stayed in all kinds of hotels/resorts (high end & run of the mill) throughout Southeast Asia and have never been asked to pay for anything extra (not including the mini bar/fridge) beyond the price of the room.

Post by **BobHelm** » April 26, 2011, 10:35 pm

Then you guys have not lived...

I posted on here over 5 years ago about this practice happening in Udon.
At the time there was a hotel in Udon advertising on nearly every tuk tuk about its' rooms being only 280 baht a night & as low as 5,000 baht month.
When I went there to investigate that was room only - electricity, water, cleaning & linen on top.

The Top mansion also used to rent the larger rooms on the top floor for about 5K a month - you provided you own TV & fridge & paid electricity & water on top of that.

From memory AEK charge for electricity by the unit used, not included in the room rate.

The new hotel just opened down from Chern Chim are also advertising a low monthly rate that has electricity payable on top.

It is a very common experience - especially for 'long stays'...

Post by **2000VIPERGTS** » April 26, 2011, 11:52 pm

Thanks guys for the answers! it is a 3 bedroom place, all furnished with a living room, dining room and kitchen with microwave, fridge, water heater gizmo so a lot of room for 700 Bht. The meter was written down, but I think it was an accurate reading and 30 units a day at 10 Bht is $10 US to me, so anyhow it is okay by me and I told them that. For 300 Bht a day, I will live and learn and anyhow that makes my room rate an effective 1000 Bht a day for a big place. Nice pool and tranquil despite neighbors on all sides of us, it is quiet as can be. So another time in Udon with my fiancée' and that is what hatters, but really this forum is really nice to bounce ideas and such as I want to my part and be reasonable too dealing with anyone. I respectfully suggested that they let someone know in the future the electricity cost as they really downplayed it, and I did it to be constructive. They also did not list the rate on the bill.... Anyhow, this is Thailand so live and learn and glad GOD has blessed me with extra Bht is all for my tuition here-lol. Gary

Post by **fdimike** » April 27, 2011, 5:45 am

Bobhelm
Too say I haven't lived because I haven't been ripped off may not be a really good choice of words. I would guess that I've stayed at far more hotels/resorts/guesthouses than probably anyone on this forum over the course of about 4 years now by virtue of my bicycle touring throughout Southeast Asia and have never experienced any additional charges for my room. My stays have included simple resorts to 5 star hotels in every SEA coutry except Indonesia. A friend of mine has been living continuously at the Napalai Hotel now for about 8 years now and is charged a flat rate which includes all the normal amenities (free breakfast, cable tv, daily maid service, air con. very large swimming pool etc etc) offerred to all guests. Another friend of mine who has made annual trips to UD over the course of at least 10 years now stays at the Charoen Hotel for a similar flat rate with all the amenities. I would never agree to paying anything more for the room other than the agreed price as there are far too many nice hotesl/resorts/guesthouses available which do not subscribe to such nonsense. What you are describing sounds more like an apartment to me rather than a hotel/guesthouse/resort.

Post by **2000VIPERGTS** » April 27, 2011, 7:01 am

If I could change it, I would not have come here but I am here and will live with it at this point and call It a day but I cannot in good faith say to come here because of how it is verses how it was represented with electric bill. The place is for sale and why I chose it so I could see it firsthand and possibly consider purchasing the business, but I feel that the electric was misrepresented and not a good value for the area. Had I been told this will use approximately 30 units of electric a day @ 10 Bht a unit with 1 AC unit on, at least I would have been informed. As it sits, it was like "it costs almost nothing" turned into 300 Bht a day or a little more, about 360 Baht a day extra charge. To me, the money thank GOD is small but the principle means a lot. It isn't like they never rented the place out before, so they have a base as to what to compare it to is all. I paid 850 Bht at the place in Udon and it was terrific with everything included including TERRIFIC service, breakfast, we left the AC on at all times and a beautiful room. I would highly recommend it for value but again next to the farang girlie bars and it didn't fit us well is all only because of that but the staff was excellent and we stayed there for a week. What is funny as I am running up here as I try and stay in good shape and the people think I am crazy because I run in the heat-lol. I did notice some Thai are not into the farang and judge m right away, but I REALLY try and do an exceptional job of being respectful and friendly to all of them, even when not treat too well as I want to be treated as an individual. My Thai is not great, but at least now I can get around reasonably at this point and learning more daily slowly. Many thanks again and glad to have this forum and so many people to bounce ideas off of and listen to advice. Gary

Post by **UdonExpat** » April 27, 2011, 10:30 am

The electric at my home is from 3.37 to 3.53 baht per unit plus the 7% VAT. The rate varies on a supplemetal fee. Most rentals that charge for electric do so at at least double their cost.

When I lived in an apartment they charged more than double their cost.

Post by **maikauzai** » April 27, 2011, 4:29 pm

The common practice is if you rent by the day, utilities included in the daily rate; if you rent by the month, utilities extra. 700 baht a day equates 21k a month, plus utilities, for a 3br apartment outside udon? do I read it right?

Post by **wazza** » April 27, 2011, 5:00 pm

Very common for bulk appartments around Soi Katoey etc, to charge over double or triple the govt charge for electrics for the room, rented per month. even the water charges are excessive to the govt charge, but this is how they keep the room rate down to make the price attractive to start off with and also a way of making some extra cash.

I found that out in MOno Appartments 8 years ago and they also slugged me for a 8oo Baht cleaning fee , after i checked out.

Post by **2000VIPERGTS** » April 27, 2011, 6:45 pm

maikauzai wrote:The common practice is if you rent by the day, utilities included in the daily rate; if you rent by the month, utilities extra. 700 baht a day equates 21k a month, plus utilities, for a 3br apartment outside udon? do I read it right?

700 a day PLUS electric @ 10 Baht a KW/hr and averaging 30 Kw/hr a day with some AC on so about 1000 Baht a day total. There is a nice pool here and well manicured small area around pool. it is how it was presented with the cost of electric and what it is that is annoying is all. It is a nice change as it is not a farang area however, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They have a small place for food to eat and that was good and we ran up a nice little bill today. Again, the issue is not the money to me, it is the principle and my ONLY issue as 1000 Bht as a working American business owner is knit noi Baht.

Post by **wazza** » April 27, 2011, 6:50 pm

Still seen as a scam to be honest

Turn the pool pump off from your room also. If it stops pumping then another good scam to add to your electric bills.

Post by **fdimike** » April 27, 2011, 6:59 pm

If you are renting an apartment for an extened period of time I can understand charging for water & electric. However, I've stayed in numerous "apartments" which also rent on a daily basis and was charged only the basic room rate. A typical rate for this type of establishment runs about 300-400B/night which includes cable tv, fridge, hot water shower, & air con. The only standards I have is that it is CLEAN, has air con & hot water. A tv is nice as is the fridge. There are more than enough hotels/resorts & guesthouses available throughout SEA which meet those standards.