Longer term investment or not - Owning Property in Udon

[BKKSTAN]

Deankham,
If I were you I would not buy in Thailand,there are way to many risks.If you are looking for long term Investment look to-wards Europe as this place is fraught with danger for farangs.You ask about 15-20 years investment who is to know who is going to be in charge of the Country in the next few years and what pleasant suprises they will have for the farang,if you build in Thailand you should invest the total ammount of money you are prepared to loose or the same ammount you can walk away from,dont believe in all this it has appreciated 10-15% in the last few years thats a load of crap,the truth being that you will find it almost impossible to sell your home over here nobody wants second hand,you can look in area you want and you will find hundreds of farangs trying to sell,I have been lucky I have owned 3 houses and sold the first 2 to friends and the last one to the guy who took up with my ex missus,I have invested my money back in Europe and I take from the Interest to pay rent as that is what I have done for the last 4 years I would never buy another property over here,good luck to you.

You sound like you have been very lucky with your properties while learning the ropes in Thailand.I surely agree with you on investing in Thailand.I have invested in riverfront property for my wife and daughter!Buying a house for any other reason than a permanent dwelling for your family should only be done if it is in an area where your family have family!I wouldn't consider it an investment for future profit!

There are some very very rich Thais in Thailand,most with extensive Chinese family backgrounds.They are longterm planners and build all these properties you see in NK.They are rented out on longterm leases and the maintenance/upkeep is done by the leasees!They property they are built on is considered prime and figures to increase in value to the point that in the future,the value will cover taking down the structures ,if there is a desire for different building!

China is moving into the area with all kinds of investment programs as they finance infrastructure from China.They are very big in Laos now with complete projects that include resettling Han Chinese communities into the area.As the highways and RR lines are hooked up to Thailand.there is little doubt that they will enhance and expand their influence in Thailand!

Imo,the Chinese investment strategies are very different from ours because of the long long term approach.They are willing to pay the inflated prices for that prime land now,knowing that there will probably not be any growth in their investment for 10+ years,but some where down the line as the infrastructure is completed and they have totally influenced the area,the values will rise dramatically and the investment will prove out!Plus those property owners and their future families that have persistently owned and waited out the cycle will have the extra prestige/influence as Phuyais of the area,something that falangs could never acquire!

I think most of us are looking for standard good Western middleclass investment opportunities!Investments that have immediate growth potential and/or immediate income growth!IMO,There is limited or very little opportunity for that in Thailand for us.I believe we should confine our monetary investments to areas and countries where the rule of law prevails and the environment is investor friendly for us.

I consider the money that I save in living expenses while living in Thailand as income!My investment is myself living here while enjoying the advantages,understanding and accepting the disadvantages, hoping that it will last my lifetime!

The risk is that I see the expat falang/ATM as being less needed to the economy as Asia becomes more and more Asian.I see the future of falangs in Thailand limited to high end tourists and an ever increasing restrictive demands,monetarily,for falang expats.China,Japan and S.Korea are/will be the desired and more accepted expats and investors as they are culturally more in tune with Thailand and racially,are Asian!

[Pakawala]

Excellent post Stan! I haven't been here nearly as long as you have but when I arrived in Udon and saw the prices, I told myself I would NEVER buy a house here... I could rent for 20 years with no ties to anything and still not spend the money I would have to pay in buying.

Now, having said that, I've gotten married and (most fortunately for me) my wife already owned a house (townhouse) in a very nice neighborhood and only 50 meters from her mom's house. Well, this put a different slant on the subject so I invested a few thousand US$ into the upgrading to Western standards and am quite happy living here. Still, a couple thousand invested into a private home is nowhere near the amount I would have had to invest if I were to buy, either new or second hand. I'M HAPPY!!

[Fred the Farmer]

Personally I would not invest into something I could not own.

In this thread some refer to the housing market and others refer to the property market. If I was going to invest into property, I would scout every soi starting at Robinson's Udon and moving out until you reached the ring-road.

I believe if you looked hard enough and waited you would find some cracker deals.

As more housing developments go up outside the ring road, it will keep making property inside the ring road even more valuable.

[saint]

look at it another way, you came into the world with nothing and you will leave it with nothing, what you have whilst here is only borrowed, doesnt matter how much you pay for it.!!!!!!!!

[RALPHCUSENS]

Agree to a point, hopefully, we came into the world with love from our parants, who provided for us, and hopefully we depart this world with love from our wives, so why not provide for them!

When you look at it logically, if you buy a property, you will be paying roughly the same in repayments as renting, so therefore, why not buy, and give your loved ones some security,after all they have a lot to put up with, us being grumpy old so-in-sos!

[lee]

You may also consider a 30% down payment and take out a mortgage with a local bank; the weekly repayments may work out the same as renting. Then if you're unlucky to find yourself divorced a few years down the road you haven't lost all your capital, only what has been paid to that date. Your ex will then be able to reclaim what has already been paid and everyone’s happy. This seems like a pretty fair option in my opinion. I know it sounds very negative but it's always sensible to look at any eventuality. I think most housing estates in Udon can work out financing options for you.

If of course you can afford to loose several million without loosing any sleep then buying outright is probably less hassle and a free gift to your wife if you break up.

[pompui]

I personally think some farang are very lucky in finding a T/G that accepts a farang wil only rent a property/own a car only in his name/would not think about getting married and yet still stay with a farang.I thought this type of Thai was from the past and the T/G of the present era is keen upon parents advice to secure what they can from a farang before he gets bored or moves onto another beauty.
Evryone has their own situation to deal with me,me chose the buying of property to live in,married so supposedly covered by Thai Law? that the property is split 50/50 on divorce and then happily would move out after 1 year to new pastures.
Land or property is especially worth looking at around the 2 lakes - nong sim and prajak for long term investment,as someone has put it that too many new developments outside the ringroad would make inside a better option.
Maybe paddy fields are worth looking at for their rental income to farmers as if you cannot own the land then at least keep the rental income.

[saint]

you dont have to lose the property if you split anyway, if not married get a 30 year lease from girlfriend, if married you can get a super fecies from any lawyer, which entitles you right to live there till you die, even if your not in the country. both give the thai lady the security i think they deserve and youve covered your arse. win win situation in my book. make sure you register either contracts at the land office and your secure as well.

[saint]

i also agree with ralph, if youve found someone that can put up with you and makes you happy, doesnt that person deserve to feel secure. who knows whats round the corner, anyone of us could be dead tomorrow. think what would happen to your lady if it happened to you!!!!!!!!!!!

[BKKSTAN]

I don't think anyone should risk all their savings on a relationship until the relationship has proved out!But their has to be some equity for the wife is case it doesn't last!If both people are selfish and only concerned with their own welfare,it won't last anyway!

I think if your wife is local and will live here after you die,building a house is a good family staple and something that solidifies the family with a mutual interest project!If the relationship is still in its ''testing and forming''period,financing a home would probably be the prudent thing if one has to be concerned with lost savings!

If you wife is not local,then ,IMO,renting is the only way to go.You will save much money on your living expenses that can be saved for your wifes future and as''outsiders'',you will be liquid and mobile in case you choose to move!

[sgt]

There was a mention of using a Thai bank to finance. Has anybody here had any experience with any Thai banks and financing a home? I know a farang cannot own, but could a Thai wife buy in her name and use husbands income, with him as co-signer on the loan? I have been told the bank would only finance 50% in that case. Anybody have in info?

[Guns482]

Buying is the best option with a lease for 30 years ( I should live that long), which by the way has to be renewed.
Average good house and properrty same size as m,y house 10-15 thou per month.
10 years 1.5 mill. this way no rent increases, no hassle with landlord, what ypou put in you can enjoy, do not forget you only rent the house and land NOT normally the inside bits and pieces.
Cheaper in the long run, you can enjoy it while you live, and yes you can either give it to the Thai person on the land deed or with a good lawyer get it sold and give the money to whomever, needs some legal work , but not too expensive.
Also means you can transfer house to another Thai if you so wish. worth the cash up front to protect your investment.
But bottom line up to you whatever you do be happy doing it.

[laphanphon]

Buying is the best option with a lease for 30 years

if married, lease can be cancelled one year after divorce.

Cheaper in the long run, you can enjoy it while you live, and yes you can either give it to the Thai person on the land deed or with a good lawyer get it sold and give the money to whomever, needs some legal work , but not too expensive.
Also means you can transfer house to another Thai if you so wish. worth the cash up front to protect your investment.

i would love to see an example of that in reality. more research needs to be done before investing in real estate. but i do have a very nice house for sale.

i realize the topic is 'good investment', as with any business relationship, and it will be a business relationship since you can not own the land. you need a trusted THAI business partner. do you have one, do you personally know one, would you give them 1 or 2 million baht in a bag, ask them to hold it for you and you'll be back in a couple hours. will they still be there. do you know the complete legal system and probability of winning a judgement, or worst, actually collecting that judgement if all things go wrong.

best of luck in your decisions, lots of research is needed. as with any investment, don't invest more than you can lose.

[papaguido]

There was a mention of using a Thai bank to finance. Has anybody here had any experience with any Thai banks and financing a home? I know a farang cannot own, but could a Thai wife buy in her name and use husbands income, with him as co-signer on the loan? I have been told the bank would only finance 50% in that case. Anybody have in info?

I did two years ago, financed our house on my income alone. We had to shop around, went to 3 banks before we got approved. The 1st bank we went to shot us down, the 2nd offered us 50% and 3rd approved us for 80%. It can be done, but don't know what percentage they're giving these days.

[sgt]

papaguido, sent you email. Thanks for the info. It is good to know that the financing can be done. Too bad we aren't all as rich as many think we are, and thank Buddha I have a wife that knows I'm not.